The Ottawa Young Legs 2020-21

[Xspyrit]

"Young legs" is certainly a term used to refer to young players. If you are 25-27 y/o and not established in the NHL yet, it's either because you are a late bloomer or had serious injurie(s) (ex : Wolanin). Chances are that you won't be a significant player in the end. That being said, by that age, you probably already have several pro seasons under your belt (ex : Artyem Zub, Dadonov), that's why it's a bit hard to qualify you as "young legs" relatively to other NHL players. Also, by the time you are in your 3rd/4th NHL season, you might still be young and certainly can still improve, but the "young player" excuses might not be valid much longer...

For fun, I took a quick look at Sens U-25 players every season during the last decade

Not listing u-25 players that didn't play at least 25% of the season, so with less than 20 GP (except for 2012-13 where it's 12 GP)

2011-12 (Total : 11)

4 D-men : Karlsson (21 y/o, 81 GP), Cowen (21 y/o, 82 GP), Rundblad (21 y/o, 24 GP), Lee (24 y/o, 35 GP)
7 Forwards : Turris (22 y/o, 49 GP), Foligno (24 y/o, 82 GP), Z. Smith (23 y/o, 81 GP), Daugavins (23 y/o, 65 GP), Butler (24 y/o, 56 GP), Da Costa (22 y/o, 22 GP), O'Brien (23 y/o, 28 GP)

2012-13 (Total : 13)

4 D-men : Karlsson (22 y/o, 17 GP), Cowen (22 y/o, * injured), Wiercioch (22 y/o, 42 GP), Gryba (24 y/o, 33 GP)
8 Forwards : Zibanejad (19 y/o, 42 GP), Turris (23 y/o, 48 GP), Silfverberg (22 y/o, 48 GP), Z. Smith (24 y/o, 48 GP), O'Brien (24 y/o, 29 GP), Daugavins (24 y/o, 19 GP), Conacher (23 y/o, 12 GP), Dziurzynski (23 y/o, 12 GP)
1 Goalie : Lehner (21 y/o, 12 GP)

2013-14 (Total : 11)

4 D-men : Karlsson (23 y/o, 82 GP), Wiercioch (23 y/o, 53 GP), Ceci (20 y/o, 49 GP), Cowen (23 y/o, 68 GP)
6 Forwards : Turris (24 y/o, 82 GP), Zibanejad (20 y/o, 69 GP), Hoffman (24 y/o, 25 GP), Pageau (21 y/o, 28 GP), Conacher (24 y/o, 60 GP), Grant (23 y/o, 20 GP) + (Stone 21 y/o, missing the cut with 19 GP)
1 Goalie : Lehner (22 y/o, 36 GP)

2014-15 (Total : 10)

4 D-men : Karlsson (24 y/o, 82 GP), Ceci (21 y/o, 81 GP), Wiercioch (24 y/o, 56 GP), Cowen (24 y/o, 54 GP)
5 Forwards : Stone (22 y/o, 80 GP), Zibanejad (21 y/o, 80 GP), Pageau (22 y/o, 50 GP), Lazar (19 y/o, 67 GP), Chiasson (24 y/o, 76 GP)
1 Goalie : Lehner (23 y/o, 25 GP)

2015-16 (Total : 10)

1 D-man : Ceci (22 y/o, 75 GP)
9 Forwards : Stone (23 y/o, 75 GP), Zibanejad (22 y/o, 81 GP), Pageau (23 y/o, 82 GP), Lazar (20 y/o, 76 GP), Prince (23 y/o, 42 GP), Dzingel (23 y/o, 30 GP), Puempel (23 y/o, 26 GP), Paul (20 y/o, 24 GP), McCormick (23 y/o, 20 GP)

2016-17 (Total : 6)

2 D-men : Ceci (23 y/o, 79 GP), Claesson (24 y/o, 33 GP)
4 Forwards : Stone (24 y/o, 71 GP), Pageau (24 y/o, 82 GP), Dzingel (24 y/o, 81 GP), Lazar (21 y/o, 33 GP)

2017-18 (Total : 5)

3 D-men : Chabot (21 y/o, 63 GP), Ceci (24 y/o, 82 GP), Harpur (23 y/o, 41 GP)
2 Forwards : White (21 y/o, 21 GP), Chlapik (20 y/o, 20 GP)

2018-19 (Total : 12)

5 D-men : Chabot (22 y/o, 70 GP), Jaros (22 y/o, 61), Lajoie (21 y/o, 56) Wolanin (23 y/o, 30), Harpur (24 y/o, 51 GP)
7 Forwards : Tkachuk (19 y/o, 71 GP), White (22 y/o, 71 GP), Tierney (24 y/o, 81 GP), Balcers (21 y/o, 36 GP), Duclair (23 y/o, 21 GP), Batherson (20 y/o, 20 GP), Paul (23 y/o, 20 GP)

2019-20 (Total : 11)

3 D-men : Chabot (23 y/o, 71 GP), Brannstrom (20 y/o, 31 GP), Englund (24 y/o, 24 GP)
8 Forwards : Tkachuk (20 y/o, 71 GP), Duclair (24 y/o, 66 GP), White (23 y/o, 61 GP), Paul (24 y/o, 56 GP), Batherson (21 y/o, 23 GP), Brown (21 y/o, 23 GP), Chlapik (22 y/o, 31 GP), Beaudin (22 y/o, 22 GP)

2020-21 (Total : 6 so far)

1 D-man : Chabot (24 y/o, ??? GP)
5 Forwards : Tkachuk (21 y/o, ??? GP), Batherson (22 y/o, ??? GP), Norris (21 y/o, ??? GP), Stutzle (19 y/o, ??? GP), White (24 y/o, ??? GP)


Can we stop referring to the current team as a "young team" until there's at least several more young players? It's a veteran NHL team with a few VERY GOOD young players (2 lotto picks, 2 mid 1st round picks that developed well and a later round pick gem). Look at most NHL teams and how they are built. It's pretty much the same with several teams having more u-25 players and a few teams having less.

When Dorion took the team in 2016, you could see that suddenly there was less "young players" on the roster. After the terrible downfall of 2017-18, it looked like we were going to give a lot of opportunities to the youth again in 2018-19 & 2019-20. But it looks like the plan really changed this year. IMO, this desire to win/compete is a bit PREMATURE. We'll see how that works out and a lot of things can change (injury bug?) before the end of the season but so far, outside of the "big 3" rookie forwards, it's not looking like a big opportunity year for young guys.

I'll remain hopeful about Pinto, Formenton, Sanderson and JBD making the team in the next 2 seasons after this one. Not sure what the plan is for Brannstrom and Logan Brown.

Click to read more...

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Hopefully the young players force their way onto the team and stick when given the chance. I don't have much faith DJ will let that happen but who knows?

I'm concerned about the D in particular. Defense need more NHL time to get up to speed and we only have one that's playing that will have a future with the team. Ideally you start developing a solid D before your forwards because they peak later. Toronto and Edmonton have failed to do that and are still struggling to become contenders. Chabot is a great start on that front but we need more.

If Logan Brown is on the outs I say we trade him for a young D who is just breaking into the NHL. I'd prefer a RD but I'm not picky at this point.

 

[Answer]

It seems that we are realistically giving 1 young player a proper opportunity per year

First Chabot, then Tkachuk.

Last year was Batherson and this year Norris. Stutzle is an automatic

Next year it will be Formenton

 

[Xspyrit]

Hopefully the young players force their way onto the team and stick when given the chance. I don't have much faith DJ will let that happen but who knows?

I'm concerned about the D in particular. Defense need more NHL time to get up to speed and we only have one that's playing that will have a future with the team. Ideally you start developing a solid D before your forwards because they peak later. Toronto and Edmonton have failed to do that and are still struggling to become contenders. Chabot is a great start on that front but we need more.

If Logan Brown is on the outs I say we trade him for a young D who is just breaking into the NHL. I'd prefer a RD but I'm not picky at this point.

I'm thinking Josh Brown could be a semi-long term solution. He was acquired with a 4th, and you basically hope that he ends up as good as DeMelo (7 months older) that we traded for a 3rd. We're also a bit "stuck" with Zaitsev contract but if he keeps it up, maybe not.

But yeah, not having other young D-man gaining experience is kinda worrying. I was hopeful Wolanin could be another semi-long term piece but doesn't look this way. He failed his first game in 10 months (13th pro game in ~630 days) and now he's waiting in line for another opportunity

Also, maybe Brannstrom got longer-term complications from covid, makes no sense that they're not trying to have him in there. Did anyone really spot him at the training camp?

Finally, don't worry about Logan Brown, he'll put up 2.0 PPG when the AHL starts so he'll eventually get called up!

But if it comes to trading him, I wonder which young D-men could be available and about worth the same...

It seems that we are realistically giving 1 young player a proper opportunity per year

First Chabot, then Tkachuk.

Last year was Batherson and this year Norris. Stutzle is an automatic

Next year it will be Formenton

Good, we'll be contenders by Chabot 32nd birthday!

 

[TheDebater]

Is it just me, or is this "young team" term being blown out of proportion? It is not a concrete term with only one solid definition, it can be interpreted in a couple of ways. Looking at the "average" of a team and getting upset that is too high therefore the team is not young is kind of a narrow-minded way to look at it.

The Senators are a "young team" for the simple fact that the leaders and future core players on this team are very young. It is the young up and coming players that define this team, not the "passing through" players like Stepan, Paquette, Coburn and Anisimov that raise the average age number on this team.

We are a young team because right now, when you hear or think "Ottawa Senators", the names Tkachuk, Chabot, Brannstrom, Sttu`zle, Norris, Batherson, White etc. are the ones that come to mind, not the "veterans". This is why it is only natural to think of this team as a young team because the young guys are the ones leading the way so far this year, not the older players.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Age of the top 5 scorers on the team:

2011-2012

1) 29
2) 21
3) 29
4) 38
5) 24

Worst AHL team. Great prospect pool

2012-2013

1) 23
2) 39
3) 39
4) 19
5) 22

Calder Cup Champs. Great prospect pool

2013-2014

1) 23
2) 31
3) 24
4) 28
5) 26

Great AHL team, bad prospect pool

2014-2015

1) 24
2) 22
3) 25
4) 27
5) 25

Bad AHL team, bad prospect pool

2015-2016

1) 25
2) 23
3) 26
4) 28
5) 22

Trash AHL team, bad prospect pool

2016-2017

1) 26
2) 27
3) 26
4) 24
5) 29

Trash AHL team, average prospect pool

2017-2018

1) 25
2) 27
3) 28
4) 27
5) 25

Trash AHL team, good prospect pool

2018-2019

1) 26
2) 28
3) 21
4) 24
5) 19

Trash AHL team, good prospect pool

2019-2020

1) 20
2) 26
3) 27
4) 24
5) 22

Boasted one of the best statistical seasons where the top scorers were 22 or under. Hasnt been done in 25+ years. Great prospect pool.

2020-2021 (thus far)

1) 29
2) 21
2) 21
3) 23
4) 23

Will boast one of the best AHL teams and arguably best prospect pool in the league.


TL;DR: Sens this year(thus far) have the best young contributors at the top of their team while simultaneously boasting incredibly deep prospect pool with close to NHL ready talent, and prospects in the system not playing pro.

Zaitsev will surely be off that top 5 too. And someone like Paul, Dadonov, or Stutzle can replace.

Point being: we have at the top of our team the young leading the charge, we have guys in the wing ready to reinforce them near the top, while having elite prospects ready to impact soon as well. We also do not have anyone anchoring us with unnecessary contract, most cap in the league in what will be a flat cap next three years and all the "veterans" are on excellent/expiring contracts(except Zaitsev). All the older players we have below are to let the boys at the front keep pulling and having mentors around.

 

[HSF]

by the time the season is done the number of young guys will probably increase

also I take the term 'young team' to mean that you have young players in key situations. Tkachuk, Chabot, Norris, Stuetzle, and Batherson are playing key positions

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Is it just me, or is this "young team" term being blown out of proportion? It is not a concrete term with only one solid definition, it can be interpreted in a couple of ways. Looking at the "average" of a team and getting upset that is too high therefore the team is not young is kind of a narrow-minded way to look at it.

The Senators are a "young team" for the simple fact that the leaders and future core players on this team are very young. It is the young up and coming players that define this team, not the "passing through" players like Stepan, Paquette, Coburn and Anisimov that raise the average age number on this team.

We are a young team because right now, when you hear or think "Ottawa Senators", the names Tkachuk, Chabot, Brannstrom, Sttu`zle, Norris, Batherson, White etc. are the ones that come to mind, not the "veterans". This is why it is only natural to think of this team as a young team because the young guys are the ones leading the way so far this year, not the older players.

I would agree with this.

I think the problem people have is the disconnect between this fairly clear fact and the acquisition and usage of players our management has put in play this year. The vision of a young team seems at odds with a lot of the decisions being made by Dorion and Smith.

 

[Xspyrit]

Is it just me, or is this "young team" term being blown out of proportion? It is not a concrete term with only one solid definition, it can be interpreted in a couple of ways. Looking at the "average" of a team and getting upset that is too high therefore the team is not young is kind of a narrow-minded way to look at it.

The Senators are a "young team" for the simple fact that the leaders and future core players on this team are very young. It is the young up and coming players that define this team, not the "passing through" players like Stepan, Paquette, Coburn and Anisimov that raise the average age number on this team.

We are a young team because right now, when you hear or think "Ottawa Senators", the names Tkachuk, Chabot, Brannstrom, Sttu`zle, Norris, Batherson, White etc. are the ones that come to mind, not the "veterans". This is why it is only natural to think of this team as a young team because the young guys are the ones leading the way so far this year, not the older players.

Average age of the team doesn't matter much, there's several "young guys" on the taxi squad bringing down that average age and there's also a lot of "young veterans" in the 25-30 y/o age range. On top of that, not many really old guys like a Craig Anderson raising that average. Only 1 guy over 32 y/o.

I think the problem some of us have is more because there's still not a lot of potential long-term pieces that could be part of a successful team. Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Stutzle and potentially Nick Paul, Matt Murray and/or Connor Brown? Hopefully a guy among Galchenyuk/White/Wolanin/Brown becomes another piece.

The positive is that it seems the long term core pieces won't just be Tkachuk and Chabot as 3 more young guys are looking to also be part of it. A guy like Norris or Batherson (still pretty confident they will) not becoming one of these pieces would be an extra worry.

Also, maybe it will change soon (because we WANT to be wrong on this) but it is also HEAVILY related to the fact that guys like Paquette (just doesn't want to be here), Anisimov (on last NHL legs), Reilly (too inconsistent to be a keeper) and Coburn (soon 36 on an expiring contract) get to play over guys like Wolanin, White, Brannstrom, Logan Brown, Formenton and even Chlapik/Balcers even if those guys need EXPERIENCE and playing time. It just doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team.

I think it's more what some us "narrow-minded" viewers see with this situation. Either there's a swing in the team building direction (looked like we were going full homegrown talent but want to now follow the Habs way, for example) or our drafting/development has been really underwhelming for years, on top of a pretty bad pro scouting (like not getting the right prospects/young players in trades)

Personally, I see it as major concerns. If you choose to think everything is great for a team that might be looking at another bottom finish for a 4th season in a row, it's up to you but at this moment, I'm not super confident in the Melnyk/Dorion/DJ trio (who in their right mind would? lol)

 

[thesensguy]

by the time the season is done the number of young guys will probably increase

also I take the term 'young team' to mean that you have young players in key situations. Tkachuk, Chabot, Norris, Stuetzle, and Batherson are playing key positions

Exactly this. We have 3 u-23 players in our top 6 and our #1D is 23. Our core players going forward (Sanderson, Stuetzle, Chabot, Tkatchuk, Norris, Batherson) are all very young. The last thing we want is Norris/Batherson/Tkatchuk playing against other teams top lines, the Paul/Tierney/Brown line is a very good 3rd line and exactly the type of 3rd line you would expect on a contending team. Those 3 are 25/26/27 years old respectively, meaning they still have a lot of quality hockey left to play and should get better at their roles as they are relied less and less for key offensive situations and more defensive responsibilities.

 

[Alfie11]

Clearly this is a transition year and also a weird one with taxi squads and uncertainty about the AHL. I'm sure that drove some personnel decisions. The lack of proper training camp and exhibition games also was a missed opportunities for the kids.

Most of the vets they acquired are UFAs at the end of the year (Stepan, Pacquette, Galchenyuk, Gudbranson and Coburn). They're only committed to Dadonov, Watson, Josh Brown and Murray beyond this year.

The team is giving big roles to 3 new players (I'm counting Batherson) this year and I imagine next year there will be another 2-5 young players added to the mix. It adds up over a few years, it doesn't have to come all in one year.

The team stated they wanted to be more competitive this year. This is not a throw away year for the Sens. I don't think the team ever intended (or should intend) to run the Belleville Sens out as the 2021 Ottawa Senators. I think they graduated certain players that they felt are ready and more will come. It doesn't mean they don't like the guys not on the NHL roster or that they have no future with the team, it just means the team went with a few extra vets in this weird year.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I'd rather have the youth playing impact roles than being stuck on the 4th line like they were under McLean, Cameron, or Boucher. Plus, this post seems almost intentionally ignorant to the fact that many of our top prospects are still developing in junior leagues. Sure there are other teams in the league with more youth on their NHL roster now, but what do their cupboards look like? Do they have a group of prospects that match Sanderson, Pinto, JBD, Grieg, Jarventie, and Kleven?

This post just seems like a very petty battle of semantics over the phrase "young legs". Ultimately if our prospects develop into key players, who cares about the amount of under 26 players on other teams around the league?

 

[JD1]

Average age of the team doesn't matter much, there's several "young guys" on the taxi squad bringing down that average age and there's also a lot of "young veterans" in the 25-30 y/o age range. On top of that, not many really old guys like a Craig Anderson raising that average. Only 1 guy over 32 y/o.

I think the problem some of us have is more because there's still not a lot of potential long-term pieces that could be part of a successful team. Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Stutzle and potentially Nick Paul, Matt Murray and/or Connor Brown? Hopefully a guy among Galchenyuk/White/Wolanin/Brown becomes another piece.

The positive is that it seems the long term core pieces won't just be Tkachuk and Chabot as 3 more young guys are looking to also be part of it. A guy like Norris or Batherson (still pretty confident they will) not becoming one of these pieces would be an extra worry.

Also, maybe it will change soon (because we WANT to be wrong on this) but it is also HEAVILY related to the fact that guys like Paquette (just doesn't want to be here), Anisimov (on last NHL legs), Reilly (too inconsistent to be a keeper) and Coburn (soon 36 on an expiring contract) get to play over guys like Wolanin, White, Brannstrom, Logan Brown, Formenton and even Chlapik/Balcers even if those guys need EXPERIENCE and playing time. It just doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team.

I think it's more what some us "narrow-minded" viewers see with this situation. Either there's a swing in the team building direction (looked like we were going full homegrown talent but want to now follow the Habs way, for example) or our drafting/development has been really underwhelming for years, on top of a pretty bad pro scouting (like not getting the right prospects/young players in trades)

Personally, I see it as major concerns. If you choose to think everything is great for a team that might be looking at another bottom finish for a 4th season in a row, it's up to you but at this moment, I'm not super confident in the Melnyk/Dorion/DJ trio (who in their right mind would? lol)

I don't see this at all

A few months back there wasxa thread title "where are the vets"

Guys need to be ready to come up. Smith said they don't want them coming up and down. Look at Batherson. He looks awesome. Could Formenton and Brown play? Probably. They'd probably have some good games too. Is it the best thing for them? Who knows. Up and down isn't as easy this year.

There's all kinds of guys that are playing that aren't here long term and there's some young guys here that may not be perceived as long term guys.

I'd like to see White draw in. Tonight he has. Great. Hopefully he plays well.

But there's nothing I've seen that suggests the approach has changed. Not one bit.

 

[aragorn]

I like a future Sens team if they keep a number of these guys & add a few more this coming draft.

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Stuetzle - L. Brown - Guenther (2021 draft)
Formenton - Pinto - Sokolov
Paul - Kastelic - Grubbe (2021 draft)/Jarventie

Chabot - Schmidt (2021 draft)
Sanderson - JBD
Kleven - Mailloux (2021 draft)

Murray - Hogberg/Daccord

 

[Xspyrit]

Bump? Or still too early?

At least Colin White has been playing, Zub has been inserted, Stutzle has been progressing, Batherson/Norris/Tkachuk/Paul/Chabot getting more experience

Thank you vets for having played so poorly, might force the Sens to play more young guys

Stutzle-Brown-Dadonov
Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Paul-White-Brown

Chabot-Zub
Brannstrom-Zaitsev
Wolanin-Gudbranson

Plus, new GM + coaching staff

It's all I am asking Mr. Melnyk