Player Discussion The Official Brock Boeser Risk Management Thread

[arttk]

I don't think it's insane to look at moving on from your stars as they enter that 28 - 30 year old range after finishing their 3-year ELC, and are nearing the end of their 8-year contract. As insane as it sounds the Penguins should have sold Crosby, Malkin, and Letang after their second straight 1st round exit in the 19-20 season. At that point they hadn't been past the second round since their 16-17 cup win and that appearance was in 17-18. They instead chose to try to extend the window and that choice means they probably won't get more shots to win another cup for a half decade at least.

The fact is, even though you can look at a ton of teams and find these same patterns owners and GMs want to keep their playoff windows open even if it comes at the expense of their cup windows.

Allow me to indulge in a hypothetical:

If Pettersson had signed a 5 year deal with a final year NTC and in year 4 of that deal was having a season where he was pacing for 25 goals and 75 points after seasons of 35g/65p, 30g/50p, 30g/55p. We've been to the WCF once in that span in 24-25 but have had a first and second round exit since then. Miller's still a 65 point player, but his best years are clearly behind him. Would you advocate for trading Pettersson before his NTC kicks in?

Whatever your answer to the above the more important question is; do you see an NHL GM with his job on the line making this trade?

I think the thing to be mindful of is NHL revenue is still mostly driven by gate and that is tied to the performance of the team. Majority of owners treat their teams as business first and sports team 2nd and the decisions they make follow that pattern, that is just reality. Until we get a owner like Steve Ballmer where money is of no conern, that is going to be the case. Do you really believe Fenway investment group are fine with the pens spending 6-10 years rebuilding and losing money? Like logically if they care winning above all else, they would've traded away Sid, Malkin, Letang and etc. The fact they didn't shows you what actually matters more.

So with that in mind, there is a reason why you don't trade your star players away when they are 28-30 because sadly, while winning the cup seems like its the biggest priority, the biggest priority is to don't f***ing lose money by losing and trading away your star players when they are in the prime has a high probability of making your team lose.

your hypothetical also makes no sense because if Petey scores 50ish points for 2 seasons straight, he is not a star player and nobody would/should care that much about trading him away.

 

[arttk]

Could Lekkerimaki actually replace Boeser on the Canucks as a scoring forward, in his rookie season? Not likely....but not impossible either.

One thing is for certain. The competition for Boeser's spot as a scoring forward will be wide open at training camp. Can't see much chance of the Canucks bringing him back to play out his UFA season.

Unlike the situation with Petey, they just don't have the cap space for Boeser's current contract, much less the raise he'll be expecting.

if the identity of the team is a strong defensive team, divesting from Boeser and having the cap to sign 2 speedy/big winger that each scores around 20 goals on the 1st and 2nd line and will add more speed and better defense would make us a better team.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I think the thing to be mindful of is NHL revenue is still mostly driven by gate and that is tied to the performance of the team. Majority of owners treat their teams as business first and sports team 2nd and the decisions they make follow that pattern, that is just reality. Until we get a owner like Steve Ballmer where money is of no conern, that is going to be the case. Do you really believe Fenway investment group are fine with the pens spending 6-10 years rebuilding and losing money? Like logically if they care winning above all else, they would've traded away Sid, Malkin, Letang and etc. The fact they didn't shows you what actually matters more.

So with that in mind, there is a reason why you don't trade your star players away when they are 28-30 because sadly, while winning the cup seems like its the biggest priority, the biggest priority is to don't f***ing lose money by losing and trading away your star players when they are in the prime has a high probability of making your team lose.

your hypothetical also makes no sense because if Petey scores 50ish points for 2 seasons straight, he is not a star player and nobody would/should care that much about trading him away.

Aqualini runs the Canucks as a business, so is he going to want to walk away from Boeser for lesser assets just because it gives us better long term odds of seeing a cup? My suspicion is that we're looking to take our shots while Miller is still a top-10 forward and that we'll build are window around that and not as much around Pettersson and Hughes.

My bad on the Pettersson points, I meant to do a g/a format but put in p instead. My hypothetical should have him with a 35g - 65a - 110p season, 30g - 50a - 80p season, and a 30g - 55a - 85p season before he has a 25g - 50a - 75p slump in the season where his NTC would kick in. The example was meant to be him showing signs of decline, not him falling off a cliff.

 

[arttk]

Aqualini runs the Canucks as a business, so is he going to want to walk away from Boeser for lesser assets just because it gives us better long term odds of seeing a cup? My suspicion is that we're looking to take our shots while Miller is still a top-10 forward and that we'll build are window around that and not as much around Pettersson and Hughes.

My bad on the Pettersson points, I meant to do a g/a format but put in p instead. My hypothetical should have him with a 35g - 65a - 110p season, 30g - 50a - 80p season, and a 30g - 55a - 85p season before he has a 25g - 50a - 75p slump in the season where his NTC would kick in. The example was meant to be him showing signs of decline, not him falling off a cliff.

Simply put Boeser is not a star so yes. Like I said, you can replace 80% of what he offers with Tofoli at like 4-5M over 2-3 years and you can use the extra money to upgrade the roster.

There is not enough info in your hypothetical. What is the cause of the decline? Did he suffer a serious injury and has not recover or is it recoverable? Did he have a low scoring % year where all his wingers suck? Did we employ a coach that plays 1-3-1 all year?

Like Boeser, you make decisions not just based on numbers but everything else around it.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Simply put Boeser is not a star so yes. Like I said, you can replace 80% of what he offers with Tofoli at like 4-5M over 2-3 years and you can use the extra money to upgrade the roster.

There is not enough info in your hypothetical. What is the cause of the decline? Did he suffer a serious injury and has not recover or is it recoverable? Did he have a low scoring % year where all his wingers suck? Did we employ a coach that plays 1-3-1 all year?

Like Boeser, you make decisions not just based on numbers but everything else around it.

Even with his down seasons, Boeser is T28th among wingers in PPG. If that isn't a star player in your eyes I question where you draw the line.

As for the Pettersson hypothetical, let's say that he seems to have lost a step after playing through a knee injury in the playoffs after his 110-point season. He's still good, but no longer able to take over a game on his own.

 

[arttk]

Even with his down seasons, Boeser is T28th among wingers in PPG. If that isn't a star player in your eyes I question where you draw the line.

As for the Pettersson hypothetical, let's say that he seems to have lost a step after playing through a knee injury in the playoffs after his 110-point season. He's still good, but no longer able to take over a game on his own.

you are stretching the definition of a star.. he's a fan favorite for sure and he played at a star level for the 1st half of the season but he has really dropped off. 1st half he was at like 90pt pace, 2nd half like 60ish point pace and now he is below PPG.

and what will that hypothetical gimped Petey be asking in an extension?

 

[Tables of Stats]

you are stretching the definition of a star.. he's a fan favorite for sure and he played at a star level for the 1st half of the season but he has really dropped off. 1st half he was at like 90pt pace, 2nd half like 60ish point pace and now he is below PPG.

and what will that hypothetical gimped Petey be asking in an extension?

Boeser has been perhaps the biggest victim of our PP going MIA and given his role within the unit it's hard to blame it on him. If the PP were still going strong he'd have enough more goals and assists to have kept his pace up.

To make the Petey scenario more interesting, let's say his knee injury after the 110 point season didn't seem to hamper him much the year before his numbers dipped; most people blame that on Miller slowing down. People make that same argument about his 75 point season, but others claim they notice his skating seemed off al year. Petey has been reluctant to talk about an extension but his agent has floated a 6-year back-diving deal at 9.5 AAV, full NMC for the first 3 years. The salary cap is at 97.5 million.

 

[RandV]

don't need to stretch the logic to the maximum to try to invalidate it. if you go that far you might as well say all draft picks will eventually die at some point, and what is the point of playing hockey if we all die, why don't we all just give up with life because death is coming. hell the sun will destroy the earth in X billion years, what's the point of even continuing civilization, just f***ign give up already.

yes all players will eventually decline, the issue is how much risk do we want to take on. Boeser at the end of his contract is going to be 28 and he is already pretty slow. We have already seen whenever he gets injured and slows down a bit his production drops quite a bit. Based on that observation and the fact athletes at 30 tends to slow down, we can predict that the probability of him declining is higher. So knowing that, do we want to have another player that might not perform up his contract?

Ironically considering that for playoff teams late 1st rounders are spent on deadline rentals, extending Boeser here could be considered the better "long term" play. From a certain point of view.

 

[alternate]

I'd be fine trading him as soon as this summer, but I would expect a legitimate return, whether futures (that can then be flipped) or in a "hockey trade."

I wouldn't be dumping him for a 3rd or whatever, unless it's necessary for a bigger piece (Crosby?? LOL).

One thing about his footspeed though is how his game has evolved the past few seasons. He's never been Peter Bondra and never will be. But maybe he can be a Tomas Holmstrom type when Boeser loses another step. Someone that gets 20-30 goals from the dirty areas as a complementary piece.

I do think his IQ and offensive instincts gets downplayed too much. And his 200 foot game is still underappreciated.

But when it comes to an extension, I'd be looking at max term of 3 years, and at a cap% comparable or slightly less than what he's getting now. I do think BB6 has a few years left of being able to contribute on a contender. But no interest in getting stuck with an inefficient contract as Boeser moves towards his mid 30s.

I've said it before, but better imo to move on from a guy 1-2 years too early, rather than being stuck with a guy for an extra year or two when their AAV becomes a negative value to the team.

 

[arttk]

Boeser has been perhaps the biggest victim of our PP going MIA and given his role within the unit it's hard to blame it on him. If the PP were still going strong he'd have enough more goals and assists to have kept his pace up.

To make the Petey scenario more interesting, let's say his knee injury after the 110 point season didn't seem to hamper him much the year before his numbers dipped; most people blame that on Miller slowing down. People make that same argument about his 75 point season, but others claim they notice his skating seemed off al year. Petey has been reluctant to talk about an extension but his agent has floated a 6-year back-diving deal at 9.5 AAV, full NMC for the first 3 years. The salary cap is at 97.5 million.

i don't know, i feel like he is also the problem with the PP. small sample size but like against the avs, you see Boeser essentially coughing up the puck on the pp by being lazy with his passes. it's not a good argument to say, well if we had more people feeding him the puck he will get more points, you are accidentally making the case that he is a complementary scorer.

this whole petey hypothetical is pretty damn stupid. you just want me to say the thing you want me to say and basically crafting a completely tailor made scenario for that, what's the point?

 

[Tables of Stats]

i don't know, i feel like he is also the problem with the PP. small sample size but like against the avs, you see Boeser essentially coughing up the puck on the pp by being lazy with his passes. it's not a good argument to say, well if we had more people feeding him the puck he will get more points, you are accidentally making the case that he is a complementary scorer.

this whole petey hypothetical is pretty damn stupid. you just want me to say the thing you want me to say and basically crafting a completely tailor made scenario for that, what's the point?

The PP runs through Hughes and Pettersson, period. Boeser, Miller, and whoever the 5th man is this week don't combine for 20% of the touches that those two get. The PP is everybody's fault, and probably more on the coaches than anybody else. As for Boeser being a mainly complementary scorer, I don't object to that. I just think he's a fairly high end complementary scorer who brings surplus value to the team on his current deal.

This entire back and forth, I've never argued that there aren't situations where trading him makes sense, I just want people on both sides of the argument to actually do the work on arguing their case. If we trade Boeser what is your trade value floor, who are your replacement targets, what is your fail case fallback plan. It's easy to say we should trade a player, but much harder to show a real world scenario for what the aftermath of the suggested trade will look like.

As for the Pettersson scenario, you're the one who keeps asking me for more details. You can fill in the blanks yourself as far where your line for keeping him versus moving him lies. Or not, the argument is about the question, "Do you maximize your EV by blowing up a team that hasn't got past the 2nd round in 3 seasons when the core is in their late 20s and early 30s or does keeping the playoff window open and hoping for a Cinderalla run make more sense?"

 

[sandwichbird2023]

The PP runs through Hughes and Pettersson, period. Boeser, Miller, and whoever the 5th man is this week don't combine for 20% of the touches that those two get. The PP is everybody's fault, and probably more on the coaches than anybody else. As for Boeser being a mainly complementary scorer, I don't object to that. I just think he's a fairly high end complementary scorer who brings surplus value to the team on his current deal.

This entire back and forth, I've never argued that there aren't situations where trading him makes sense, I just want people on both sides of the argument to actually do the work on arguing their case. If we trade Boeser what is your trade value floor, who are your replacement targets, what is your fail case fallback plan. It's easy to say we should trade a player, but much harder to show a real world scenario for what the aftermath of the suggested trade will look like.

As for the Pettersson scenario, you're the one who keeps asking me for more details. You can fill in the blanks yourself as far where your line for keeping him versus moving him lies. Or not, the argument is about the question, "Do you maximize your EV by blowing up a team that hasn't got past the 2nd round in 3 seasons when the core is in their late 20s and early 30s or does keeping the playoff window open and hoping for a Cinderalla run make more sense?"

I think posters had done the work and have floated some ideas, maybe it was buried in the JL thread or other thread, but I have seen some different scenarios before.

For me personally, the bare minimum for trading Boeser after this season is a 1st round pick (in the range of pick 20 to 30, give or take) at the 2024 draft. Then use that pick plus a bit (maybe add a 2nd or a B prospect) to get Buchnevich. Failing that, use the 1st at the draft, then sign a stop gap UFA like Toffoli/Teravainen/Tarasenko/Marchessault/Arvidsson/etc to a short-ish term deal (around $5m) and try to go after Buchnevich again at the trade deadline (assuming we are contending again in 2024-25, using our 2025 1st rounder as the main piece). Or, if the team wants to go for a longer term fit, move Mikheyev as well with a sweetener, and use the freed up cap space from BB6 and Miki to go after a high end UFA like Reinhart/Guentzel.

If we can't get at least a 1st round pick back for BB6, then just keep him as a self rental. If he has another good season, try to extend him to a short-ish term (1-3 years) contract with an AAV around $6.5m. If he balk then let him walk.

That would be how I would approach it.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I think posters had done the work and have floated some ideas, maybe it was buried in the JL thread or other thread, but I have seen some different scenarios before.

For me personally, the bare minimum for trading Boeser after this season is a 1st round pick (in the range of pick 20 to 30, give or take) at the 2024 draft. Then use that pick plus a bit (maybe add a 2nd or a B prospect) to get Buchnevich. Failing that, use the 1st at the draft, then sign a stop gap UFA like Toffoli/Teravainen/Tarasenko/Marchessault/Arvidsson/etc to a short-ish term deal (around $5m) and try to go after Buchnevich again at the trade deadline (assuming we are contending again in 2024-25, using our 2025 1st rounder as the main piece). Or, if the team wants to go for a longer term fit, move Mikheyev as well with a sweetener, and use the freed up cap space from BB6 and Miki to go after a high end UFA like Reinhart/Guentzel.

If we can't get at least a 1st round pick back for BB6, then just keep him as a self rental. If he has another good season, try to extend him to a short-ish term (1-3 years) contract with an AAV around $6.5m. If he balk then let him walk.

That would be how I would approach it.

I've seen a lot of stuff like we should trade Boser and just get a cheaper guy as an FA with no elaboration. Or we should trade Boeser and then get xyz players as if you can just buy a UFA off the rack. I would like to see more people go deeper if they're going to advocate for trading a player versus keeping them. This is supposed to be a smarter discussion board, so let's show that.

As for your reasoning, it looks solid and is open to the idea that there are breakpoints where keeping Boeser makes sense. This is how player discussion around a trade should look.

 

[arttk]

The PP runs through Hughes and Pettersson, period. Boeser, Miller, and whoever the 5th man is this week don't combine for 20% of the touches that those two get. The PP is everybody's fault, and probably more on the coaches than anybody else. As for Boeser being a mainly complementary scorer, I don't object to that. I just think he's a fairly high end complementary scorer who brings surplus value to the team on his current deal.

This entire back and forth, I've never argued that there aren't situations where trading him makes sense, I just want people on both sides of the argument to actually do the work on arguing their case. If we trade Boeser what is your trade value floor, who are your replacement targets, what is your fail case fallback plan. It's easy to say we should trade a player, but much harder to show a real world scenario for what the aftermath of the suggested trade will look like.

As for the Pettersson scenario, you're the one who keeps asking me for more details. You can fill in the blanks yourself as far where your line for keeping him versus moving him lies. Or not, the argument is about the question, "Do you maximize your EV by blowing up a team that hasn't got past the 2nd round in 3 seasons when the core is in their late 20s and early 30s or does keeping the playoff window open and hoping for a Cinderalla run make more sense?"

The PP runs through Hughes and Pettersson, period. Boeser, Miller, and whoever the 5th man is this week don't combine for 20% of the touches that those two get. The PP is everybody's fault, and probably more on the coaches than anybody else. As for Boeser being a mainly complementary scorer, I don't object to that. I just think he's a fairly high end complementary scorer who brings surplus value to the team on his current deal.

This entire back and forth, I've never argued that there aren't situations where trading him makes sense, I just want people on both sides of the argument to actually do the work on arguing their case. If we trade Boeser what is your trade value floor, who are your replacement targets, what is your fail case fallback plan. It's easy to say we should trade a player, but much harder to show a real world scenario for what the aftermath of the suggested trade will look like.

As for the Pettersson scenario, you're the one who keeps asking me for more details. You can fill in the blanks yourself as far where your line for keeping him versus moving him lies. Or not, the argument is about the question, "Do you maximize your EV by blowing up a team that hasn't got past the 2nd round in 3 seasons when the core is in their late 20s and early 30s or does keeping the playoff window open and hoping for a Cinderalla run make more sense?"

I think the PP runs through Miller.. but point still stands, you are still making the case that he is a complimentary guy and he’s not the focal point of the PP. Star player are always the focal point.

I don’t think anyone argues that he doesn’t bring surplus value THIS year. We are talking about after NEXT season when a new contract kicks in and the subsequent seasons.

I mean do you think he will put up 40G next season? I am skeptical because while he did get 4 goals disallowed for stupid reason, he was on a crazy heater to start the year and it seems not repeatable. We haven’t seen Boeser do that since his rookie season and he’s slower and also lost since shot since then.

I am asking you for more details because it’s silly to think you can make a decision on a franchise player for so little info. Even the talks here about Boeser are fairly nuanced and we are actually talking about a real scenario.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I think the PP runs through Miller.. but point still stands, you are still making the case that he is a complimentary guy and he’s not the focal point of the PP. Star player are always the focal point.

I don’t think anyone argues that he doesn’t bring surplus value THIS year. We are talking about after NEXT season when a new contract kicks in and the subsequent seasons.

I mean do you think he will put up 40G next season? I am skeptical because while he did get 4 goals disallowed for stupid reason, he was on a crazy heater to start the year and it seems not repeatable. We haven’t seen Boeser do that since his rookie season and he’s slower and also lost since shot since then.

I am asking you for more details because it’s silly to think you can make a decision on a franchise player for so little info. Even the talks here about Boeser are fairly nuanced and we are actually talking about a real scenario.

What has given you the impression that I don't understand where your desire to trade Boeser comes from? I get that you feel the risk of keeping him beyond this season is higher than the reward for trading him, if you didn't feel that way you wouldn't be arguing for trading him in the first place. My objections are to the idea that trading him is the only move that makes sense.

Apparently my stance on this is unclear so let me state it again:

I think Boeser is a plus asset this season and will continue to be next season, though I don't think 40 goals is likely without another hot streak. I don't think his NTC will be an issue as I think he's a pretty loyal player and will do what's best for the team, but I do think that a regression in his play could take him from a plus asset to a neutral asset that might not have enough trade value to be worth moving. I think there are numbers (term and AAV) that he would take on a contract extension that would make him worth extending beyond the end of next season but I don't know if there are any that would see him continue to be a positive asset. We'd be extending him for reasons of team fit and chemistry rather than the value of his counting stats.

Personally I think that management are planning our window around Miller and hoping that things line up so we can offramp from that into a retool around Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, and hopefully at least one of Lekkerimaki and Willander. If we're on this plan I think that pushes us towards keeping Boeser.

On the other hand, trading Boeser this offseason eases our cap structure, removes the risk of us losing him for nothing, and prevents us from signing him to a boat anchor contract for the sake of loyalty. The assets we get from moving him can offset the potential costs of moving on from Mikheyev and Garland. This leaves us with room to bring in 3 fresh wingers that may mesh better with Pettersson and Miller but runs the risk of landing us another Lindholm who's a fit on paper but doesn't gel well on the ice. Depending on how we decide to allocate our cap space we could run a real risk of taking a step back over the next two seasons if we can find a 25-30 goal scorer who fits on PP1.

I'm pretty neutral on which route is better because I don't know what management's high level goals are and where they see our team. If they think this season is a fluke they're going to be inclined to sell, if they think this was just a larger step forward than expected they might be more inclined to hold and keep buying.

 

[VanJack]

Glancing at the updated NHL stats, Boeser's scoring has disappeared down the stretch.....and he's no longer in the top-10 goal-scoring list.

As other posters have pointed out, the Canucks lackluster PP has hit his production hard. But he's still had his best season as a Canuck.....and sits at 65 points with a chance to hit 75-80 before the regular season comes to an end.

So if the Canucks deal him, they'll be trading him at the top of the market. And it would probably be better to make a deal in the summer; than let him get to far into his UFA season.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I don’t think management moves Boeser at all. Mikheyev and Garland seem like the likelier cap casualties.

 

[Misko]

Boeser is a legit Top-6 winger right now, I think management keeps him and tries to move players who aren't like Mikheyev. Boeser would have positive value unlike Mikheyev, but you'd create a hole by moving him that would be difficult to fill as Boeser already has built-in great chemistry with both Petey and most importantly Miller. If he's a cap casualty, I think it'll be next TDL or summer.

 

[mriswith]

Glancing at the updated NHL stats, Boeser's scoring has disappeared down the stretch.....and he's no longer in the top-10 goal-scoring list.

He's scored ES points in 7 of the last 12 games. That's top end 1st line production.

 

[theguardianII]

Boeser is a legit Top-6 winger right now, I think management keeps him and tries to move players who aren't like Mikheyev. Boeser would have positive value unlike Mikheyev, but you'd create a hole by moving him that would be difficult to fill as Boeser already has built-in great chemistry with both Petey and most importantly Miller. If he's a cap casualty, I think it'll be next TDL or summer.

Hmmm, the team has cap issues, hmmmm, lets keep the one dimensional 6.65 million player that can't kill penalties or produce without playing with the best players on the team on the ice with him. Even 5 on 5 he always had Miller, 6 - 40 - 9 is even better, Tocchet has the defensive pairing of Hughes and ? with him. And his next and ast contract will be for ?????8+ mil, 9+?

Compare him Mik? What last year's Boeser who didn't play all year with Pettersson or Miller? Last year it was "Boeser is still getting over life's issues"
Well Mik just getting over have his knee taken apart and put back together again.
When BB hurt his back there was a huge amount of sympathy and allowance for slowness, but that slowness never went away.

You know once I asked a guy who chose to come to Canada to live and he said to me, You were born here, I chose, of all the countries in the world to live here, you didn't have a choice.

The idea being choosing.
BB has never had the chance to choose, yet.
But he has asked for a trade and even got his agent involved he wanted out so badly.
Mik could have signed anywhere, he CHOSE Vancouver. FYI neither has Lindholm, no choice.

 

[Misko]

Hmmm, the team has cap issues, hmmmm, lets keep the one dimensional 6.65 million player that can't kill penalties or produce without playing with the best players on the team on the ice with him. Even 5 on 5 he always had Miller, 6 - 40 - 9 is even better, Tocchet has the defensive pairing of Hughes and ? with him.

Compare him Mik? What last year's Boeser who didn't play all year with Pettersson or Miller? Last year it was "Boeser is still getting over life's issues"
Well Mik just getting over have his knee taken apart and put back together again.
When BB hurt his back there was a huge amount of sympathy and allowance for slowness, but that slowness never went away.

You know once I asked a guy who chose to come to Canada to live and he said to me, You were born here, I chose, of all the countries in the world to live here, you didn't have a choice.

The idea being choosing.
BB has never had the chance to choose, yet.
But he has asked for a trade and even got his agent invovled he want out so badly.
Mik could have signed anywhere, he CHOSE Vancouver. FYI neither has Lindholm, no choice.

lol

 

[F A N]

If the Canucks are looking to contend, there's nothing wrong with keeping Boeser for next year and then decide at the deadline/talk contract at the end. I think we would all be more comfortable seeing Boeser put up another 30+ goal season before giving him anything with term.

Otherwise, it comes down to dollars and term. I would be more willing to give him a higher AAV and betting on him scoring 30+ goals than I am giving him term. I would pay Boeser like a complimentary 30+ goal scorer.

You know once I asked a guy who chose to come to Canada to live and he said to me, You were born here, I chose, of all the countries in the world to live here, you didn't have a choice.

The idea being choosing.
BB has never had the chance to choose, yet.
But he has asked for a trade and even got his agent invovled he want out so badly.
Mik could have signed anywhere, he CHOSE Vancouver. FYI neither has Lindholm, no choice.

Did that guy have a genuine choice though? And did that guy not choose what he believes to be the best situation for him? There are places I might consider choosing to live in over Vancouver but language, citizenship, issues with discrimination, work life balance, friends and family, and money issues make me choose Vancouver.

But I don't really know what you're trying to get at. If Mik didn't have knee issues and playing with Miller or Petey and has 30+ goals 60+ points right now then I would probably keep Mik over Boeser if I have to choose. But that's not the case. Mik's contract right now is more of a liability than Boeser's.

 

[theguardianII]

If the Canucks are looking to contend, there's nothing wrong with keeping Boeser for next year and then decide at the deadline/talk contract at the end. I think we would all be more comfortable seeing Boeser put up another 30+ goal season before giving him anything with term.

Otherwise, it comes down to dollars and term. I would be more willing to give him a higher AAV and betting on him scoring 30+ goals than I am giving him term. I would pay Boeser like a complimentary 30+ goal scorer.



Did that guy have a genuine choice though? And did that guy not choose what he believes to be the best situation for him? There are places I might consider choosing to live in over Vancouver but language, citizenship, issues with discrimination, work life balance, friends and family, and money issues make me choose Vancouver.

But I don't really know what you're trying to get at. If Mik didn't have knee issues and playing with Miller or Petey and has 30+ goals 60+ points right now then I would probably keep Mik over Boeser if I have to choose. But that's not the case. Mik's contract right now is more of a liability than Boeser's.

That guy had escaped/defected from Russia.

What I am trying to get at? I guess if Boeser got a two year leash after his injuries, shouldn't Mik get one season?

Just trying to be fair in the way the indentured are treated.

As an after thought

The NHL has the most media controlled news of any sport.
Players are fined for saying the wrong thing.
Now more often those quotes are censored.
Could you see the NBA try to implement these kinds of restrictions.


How many fines are those worthy of in the NHL?

 

[F A N]

That guy had escaped/defected from Russia.

What I am trying to get at? I guess if Boeser got a two year leash after his injuries, shouldn't Mik get one season?

Just trying to be fair in the way the indentured are treated.

I don't think we are disagreeing in principle. I think we are disagreeing with the facts.

I don't think Boeser got a two year leash. I think the majority of us expressed concerns when he signed his extension after the season that he had. Boeser was never fast to begin with and relied on his hockey sense/anticipation and elite shot. He was clearly coming off his worst season ever in 21-22. Then came last season where he again looked pedestrian and useless in a 3rd line role, but he was also coming off hand surgery and dealing with his dad's declining health. This past offseason, most of us would have been in favour of moving Boeser for a 2nd round pick without retaining salary or taking a bad contract back. His contract looked like an anchor.

There are also other factors to consider. Boeser was much younger when he suffered those injuries and Boeser is now back to scoring goals which he being paid to do so posters here are generally ok to happy with him. Mik is different. Mik started this season turning 29 and coming off significant knee surgery. He's noticeably skating slower than he did as a Leaf. We've seen what happened to Roussel after his knee injury. What gave Mik an edge was his skating. He's being paid to be a big bodied top 6 player who can play D and PK. He's hasn't been killing penalties for the Canucks. Also, unlike Boeser, he doesn't really have a "past" that we want him to get back to. His last season as a Leaf and his first season as a Canuck are actually his best statistical seasons. The Canucks paid Mik thinking he has further upside. But with his knee surgery are you confident he can bounce back?

Posters here are fickle. Many of us were freaking out when Petey had that slump before Green was fired. So I don't think we necessarily gave Boeser a longer leash but I also think he deserves a longer one.

 

[theguardianII]

Posters here are fickle. Many of us were freaking out when Petey had that slump before Green was fired. So I don't think we necessarily gave Boeser a longer leash but I also think he deserves a longer one.

They sure are, they love to hate some players.
Myers was a pariah because he accepted that contract from Benning, like it was his fault. And once their thoughts went in that direction his play became secondary.
On EP, I still think it's concussion related, that can last for years and the person may not even be aware except it's harder to do the easy things or just have to concentrate on the easy things. Causing a slight delay.

Boeser, there are about 50 players I would prefer. His goal scoring is just taking the place of the other 30+ goal scorers from last year, Horvat and Kuzmenko. Losing them sure didn't make that big a difference in production did it? So he should be replaced with a more diversified player.

I wonder if fans realize that the team replaced over 65 goals from last year quite easily.

Whatever will he do if separated from Miller? Play with Petey? The question is certainly not who will play with him.

IF Petey's play was that influenced by Green will that happen again with Tocchet? Does EP have any influence with Tocchet or is it just Miller?