The novelty of this team is wearing off quickly!

[Tyler Biggs*]

It's not the wins we're looking at, it's how those individuals are playing, and under Babcock they're playing a lot better than they did last year...the Leafs win/loss record has sweet f-all to do with how two individuals play. They aren't game breakers yet, but they will be.

 

[Donald McRonald]

To answer the OP.
The novelty of this team is only just beginning.
The Leafs to this point are only in the we must first rebuild the foundation before we build the house phase.
Even looking a few years down the road the stock-piling of assets
and progression of our rookies into the line up will begin to show in
the standings. But we ain't there yet. Of course it hurts, but we're Leaf fans and we can take it. Just think ahead and know that we will
be contending for the Cup on a yearly basis, all the while having plenty of high end prospects on the Marlies chomping at the bit to have their opportunity on the big club.

 

[xyzz]

its exactly what i expected. so far, ive been taking the season off for the first time in my adult life.

I think the jays had something to do with not being invested in the beginning of the season.. but i havent had the urge to watch a game yet.

 

[Cokenfries]

Wow.....we finally have some thought process about building a team long term and you do not like that direction.

So we could be next Edmonton

 

[Leafidelity]

So we could be next Edmonton

We're the old Edmonton, they have a franchise player now.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

So we could be next Edmonton

What would you rather them do?

Besides, Edmonton's in the position they're in because they can't draft outside of round 1, didn't focus on building a competent defense, and were just generally mismanaged. I trust Shanahan, Lamoriello, and Babcock to do this a sight better than Lowe, Tambellini, Mactavish and Eakins.

 

[saltming]

So we could be next Edmonton

I do believe that's why we hired Babcock right of the bat; to avoid being Edm east.

 

[ULF_55]

Why would anyone care about this team?

For the most part (outside of Rielly) the current contractors aren't worth getting worked up over.

Probably better off trading them all (except Rielly) for any picks you can get between 2nd. and 5th. round.

Outside of Rielly no first line talent under 25, and while you do need 2nd. and 4th. liners you don't win without 1st. line talent.

There is hope you can find 1st. line talent in the draft, pretty obvious you aren't finding 1st. line talent on the 2015-2016 Leafs.

 

[Woll Smoth]

This is the pain Babcock talked about. I find it pretty, painful.

I actually find it to be quite enjoyable. I didn't expect the team to be so competitive right from the start. My expectations were way low, didn't give Babcock enough credit. With that being said, he's not a miracle worker and this team is one of the thinnest in the league in terms of talent.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You could end up counting 2012 as the beginning of the rebuild possibly. We might look back at time and do this. If so, Reilly could be our Duncan Keith.

Time will tell if * Nylander/Marner are Toews/Kane equivalents. It's possible - but assured = hard to say.

We are probably still in need of a #1C/#2C unless both of the above (*) land at and play center. In this case, we'd need another high end winger.

We definitely need another stud, top pairing defender. The timeline on Phaneuf does not align with the other core pieces in the system.

Then I suppose there is the goaltending issue.

It's hard to say where Kadri or Gardiner will fit in 3 or 4 years. With the cap structure, you have to reserve a good percent of team salary to the top players and the 2nd level ones often prove to be too expensive and get pushed out.

There are many other teams in "build mode" in the Eastern Conference with the same trajectory as our beloved Buds. We are not the only team in this situation and things around us are not static. Is our build that much better than those other teams - hard answer to determine. Then there's the similar situation in the much tougher Western conference. Everything is relative, and looking at the big picture is always prudent.

I'm not as concerned with the defense.

Gardiner, Rielly, Harrington, Percy, Loov.. I am loving Hunwick but with his age I'm not sure he'll be the same when this team gets going. Too bad, I really enjoy watching him play.

For this team to really move forward they need to sure up goaltending.

In my post, I already had Reilly penciled in as our "Keith equivalent". Do we consider Gardiner as our anchor for the 2nd pairing and equivalent to Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson is a rock and anchors that 2nd pairing for Chicago. Then there's Seabrooke.

We might be OK on the blueline if everything turns out, but hopefully the per usual optimism will be warranted this time and we aren't too prong to the "counting our chickens" phenomena here.

 

[ULF_55]

In my post, I already had Reilly penciled in as our "Keith equivalent". Do we consider Gardiner as our anchor for the 2nd pairing and equivalent to Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson is a rock and anchors that 2nd pairing for Chicago. Then there's Seabrooke.

We might be OK on the blueline if everything turns out, but hopefully the per usual optimism will be warranted this time and we aren't too prong to the "counting our chickens" phenomena here.

Marlies have forwards and defenders with potential.

Keith didn't make the NHL until 22, Leafs have some with the Marlies who we have to wait on.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

In my post, I already had Reilly penciled in as our "Keith equivalent". Do we consider Gardiner as our anchor for the 2nd pairing and equivalent to Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson is a rock and anchors that 2nd pairing for Chicago. Then there's Seabrooke.

We might be OK on the blueline if everything turns out, but hopefully the per usual optimism will be warranted this time and we aren't too prong to the "counting our chickens" phenomena here.

Marlies have forwards and defenders with potential.

Keith didn't make the NHL until 22, Leafs have some with the Marlies who we have to wait on.

Sounds like what I said (agreeing) I think?

 

[Leafsman]

In my post, I already had Reilly penciled in as our "Keith equivalent". Do we consider Gardiner as our anchor for the 2nd pairing and equivalent to Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson is a rock and anchors that 2nd pairing for Chicago. Then there's Seabrooke.

We might be OK on the blueline if everything turns out, but hopefully the per usual optimism will be warranted this time and we aren't too prong to the "counting our chickens" phenomena here.

We're not going to have a defense identical to Chicago. It looks like this team will have its own identity.

I agree with your projection of Rielly. Gardiner is a complete mystery to me and I think we're still a couple years away from seeing his full potential. Great player with amazing skill, he seems sometimes a second too slow when making a decision.

Reilly, Percy and Gardiner is one incredible mobile defense. Loov has a great shot and Harrington has shown some great poise and intelligence. I'm looking forward to seeing this Corrado kid and what he has.

The future team won't have to rely solely on our own prospects to round out the defense. With Reilly, Gardiner, Percy, Harrington, Loov and whomever else it is not imperative they all fulfill expectations.

Finding players like Hunwick (Hunwick is only 30 and could be here for the turn around)or some older vets to fill in around whomever does not make the cut will fortify our solid d. I am pretty comfortable with the above knowing that we may still grab another solid d prospect and can fill in with some vet experience.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

In my post, I already had Reilly penciled in as our "Keith equivalent". Do we consider Gardiner as our anchor for the 2nd pairing and equivalent to Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson is a rock and anchors that 2nd pairing for Chicago. Then there's Seabrooke.

We might be OK on the blueline if everything turns out, but hopefully the per usual optimism will be warranted this time and we aren't too prong to the "counting our chickens" phenomena here.

We're not going to have a defense identical to Chicago. It looks like this team will have its own identity.

I agree with your projection of Rielly. Gardiner is a complete mystery to me and I think we're still a couple years away from seeing his full potential. Great player with amazing skill, he seems sometimes a second too slow when making a decision.

Reilly, Percy and Gardiner is one incredible mobile defense. Loov has a great shot and Harrington has shown some great poise and intelligence. I'm looking forward to seeing this Corrado kid and what he has.

The future team won't have to rely solely on our own prospects to round out the defense. With Reilly, Gardiner, Percy, Harrington, Loov and whomever else it is not imperative they all fulfill expectations.

Finding players like Hunwick (Hunwick is only 30 and could be here for the turn around)or some older vets to fill in around whomever does not make the cut will fortify our solid d. I am pretty comfortable with the above knowing that we may still grab another solid d prospect and can fill in with some vet experience.

Not identical of course, but some basic stuff (trends) emerge when you do a bit of analysis on a championship team. You need 3 quality defenders along these lines:

#1D - Easily in the top 5 percentile (5%) in the league
#2 D - In the top 10 percentile in the league
#3 D - The defender that anchors the 2nd pairing, Minimal or very little drop off between the #2 and #3 guys. Still probably a top 10 percentile guy.

We can pencil in Reilly to the #1 slot.

Gardiner has the tools, but has been inconsistent. Is he top 10 percentile? Whether he has the hockey IQ is to be determined.

The #3 guy is an open question and TBD. Maybe one of current prospects will emerge? Will they be top 10 percentile? At best, hard to say at this point.

Phaneuf could be the #3 guy. But, in five years when we hope we are in position to take a run at the Cup, or a deep playoff run, not sure that Phaneuf or Hunwick are options or will be around.

The problem with the trade route is virtually every team wants another top 4 defender -> very high demand, very short supply. And, to get one, you have to overpay throwing the cap structure into disarray.

This is one of the reasons you have so few championship caliber teams.

My two cents.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Not identical of course, but some basic stuff (trends) emerge when you do a bit of analysis on a championship team. You need 3 quality defenders along these lines:

#1D - Easily in the top 5 percentile (5%) in the league
#2 D - In the top 10 percentile in the league
#3 D - The defender that anchors the 2nd pairing, Minimal or very little drop off between the #2 and #3 guys. Still probably a top 10 percentile guy.

We can pencil in Reilly to the #1 slot.

Gardiner has the tools, but has been inconsistent. Is he top 10 percentile? Whether he has the hockey IQ is to be determined.

The #3 guy is an open question and TBD. Maybe one of current prospects will emerge? Will they be top 10 percentile? At best, hard to say at this point.

Phaneuf could be the #3 guy. But, in five years when we hope we are in position to take a run at the Cup, or a deep playoff run, not sure that Phaneuf or Hunwick are options or will be around.

The problem with the trade route is virtually every team wants another top 4 defender -> very high demand, very short supply. And, to get one, you have to overpay throwing the cap structure into disarray.

This is one of the reasons you have so few championship caliber teams.

My two cents.

Also one of the reasons Chicago has been good for so long - Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson were locked up pretty cheap for so long.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Also one of the reasons Chicago has been good for so long - Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson were locked up pretty cheap for so long.

thank youuuuu circumvention deals

 

[Purity*]

In my post, I already had Reilly penciled in as our "Keith equivalent". Do we consider Gardiner as our anchor for the 2nd pairing and equivalent to Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson is a rock and anchors that 2nd pairing for Chicago. Then there's Seabrooke.

We might be OK on the blueline if everything turns out, but hopefully the per usual optimism will be warranted this time and we aren't too prong to the "counting our chickens" phenomena here.

Hjalmarrson is a 1st pairing defensemen who plays on a 2nd pairing.

He actually handles the tough-minutes so the Hawks can give Keith the more offensive minutes. The guy is far and away Chicago's most underrated player.

Gardiner is nowhere near the player Hjalmarrson is.

 

[Al14]

This is the pain Babcock talked about. I find it pretty, painful.

It is very hard to watch a game now. Babcock, or no Babcock, we suck!

 

[Pookie]

My big concern is goaltending.

I don't know who the goalie will be 4-5 years from now but he probably isn't in our system.

I wonder if Babcock has Buyer's Regret? He's a proud and confident guy. Probably thought he could make a difference. Boom, worst team in the NHL.

It can't stay bad forever but I wonder if there is a night or two where he goes to sleep wondering what the heck did I get myself into.

 

[ULF_55]

My big concern is goaltending.

I don't know who the goalie will be 4-5 years from now but he probably isn't in our system.

I wonder if Babcock has Buyer's Regret? He's a proud and confident guy. Probably thought he could make a difference. Boom, worst team in the NHL.

It can't stay bad forever but I wonder if there is a night or two where he goes to sleep wondering what the heck did I get myself into.

Maybe in 3-4 years Bernier will have his head on straight, and his groin won't be completely destroyed.

Naaaah, who am I kidding.

 

[Leafidelity]

I wonder if Babcock has Buyer's Regret? He's a proud and confident guy. Probably thought he could make a difference. Boom, worst team in the NHL.

It can't stay bad forever but I wonder if there is a night or two where he goes to sleep wondering what the heck did I get myself into.

Nobody ever said climbing Everest was easy

 

[Pookie]

Nobody ever said climbing Everest was easy

Sherpa's probably say it all the time

 

[ULF_55]

Nobody ever said climbing Everest was easy

Sherpa's probably say it all the time

Babcock hasn't even got his flight to Nepal booked.

In order to climb it you have to find it.

 

[teeder333*]

Babcock has the team playing very well, too well, I am concerned about them getting too many points, we need a solid last place finish. Edmonton now that they have lost McDavid might just give us a run for Matthews, can you imagine if they get him
as well?

 

[GBLeaf]

My big concern is goaltending.

I don't know who the goalie will be 4-5 years from now but he probably isn't in our system.

I wonder if Babcock has Buyer's Regret? He's a proud and confident guy. Probably thought he could make a difference. Boom, worst team in the NHL.

It can't stay bad forever but I wonder if there is a night or two where he goes to sleep wondering what the heck did I get myself into.

Bud, this is the plan.

I very much doubt Babcock has any regret about it, he knew this was coming.