The Montreal Defense Corps

[Baruch]

Hello all,
I wanted to adress this subject for a couple reasons:

-General critics about the game of Gilbert.
-IMO the poor play of Mike Weaver (while I love him, he sould be labelled 7th defenseman)
-The awful game Beaulieu had Monday Sunday night against the Flames, due IMO to confidence issues, caused by his lack of games.


My main point:

Could Tinordi (Left) - Beaulieu (Right) be a regular and effective pairing?
Or better yet, could the coaching staff experiment different combinations with these 6 defensemen : Subban-Markov-Emelin-Gilbert-Tinordi-Beaulieu?

_____

Combination #1 (The ''All the eggs in one basket''):
Markov-Subban
Emelin-Gilbert
Tinordi-Beaulieu

Combination #2 (The ''Let's give our young guys prime playing time''):
(Tinordi/Beaulieu)-Subban
Markov-(Tinordi/Beaulieu)
Emelin-Gilbert

Combination #3 (The ''Tinner-Subby Area Destruction System''):
Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Beaulieu-Gilbert

Combination #4 (The ''Replace Weaver by younger''):
Emelin-Subban
Markov-Gilbert
Tinordi-Beaulieu

_____

In my mind, our top 6 D have only 2 righties (Subban, Gilbert).
Starting by a premiss that we shall be leaving Markov on the left, which of the 3 remaining leftie can go do a good job on the right side?

Discuss!

PS: While the timing is not optimal, I was thinking about doing the thread before the 4 game slide we're on, I am not looking for why we lost 3 of the last 4, but I am looking at what is preferable going forward, this year and the next.

Click to read more...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would put Beaulieu with Subban and Tinordi on the 3rd pairing with Emelin.

 

[Suzuki x 14]

Our defence is just not good, that's where the discussion starts and ends.

You can look at it however you want, a team cannot win with the dmen we currently have.

 

[Ezpz]

Beaulieu is awful, why does anyone want him in the top 4?

 

[habtastic]

I would put Beaulieu with Subban and Tinordi on the 3rd pairing with Emelin.

You don't think that's concentrating each style on each pairing? I can see that resulting in a massive number of mistakes by each pair for different reasons.

That said, I haven't been impressed with the Emelin-Subban pairing.

 

[Kachino]

I want the 2 kids to play no matter what. I'm willing to live with their mistakes which will ultimately lead to improvements. We know what Weaver can give to the team. That's not going to change. However, both Tinordi and Beaulieu can make big strides during this season if they play regularly.

 

[Baruch]

Our defence is just not good, that's where the discussion starts and ends.

You can look at it however you want, a team cannot win with the dmen we currently have.

I agree that it would be ideal to add another top 4, like stated a lot of times. We want to become an up-tempo, possession team, yet sometimes our D have a lot of trouble getting the plays going (also the forwards responsability to come back to support though).

In the ''Tracking teams looking to built'':

Eric Staal, Andrej Sekera with Carolina.
Tyler Myers, Chris Stewart with Buffalo.
Keith Yandle with Phoenix.

I'd love to see us add a D to our lineup.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=91724181&postcount=5

It summarizes the same thought I believe, the need for another big piece in defense.

The last few games really showed us we are at least 2 years from serious Cup contending (JDLR, McCarron, Scherbak will help a lot with actual roster depth, maybe one of Andrighetto, Hudon, Thomas will help as well).

But to come back to Beaulieu... He needs to put it together, and not be affected by roster management.
I was extremely disappointed when Tinordi was pulled from the line-up again... He's playing solid.
He looked bad in Vancouver, but it wasn't of his resort (2-on-1 after the Burrows head-shot, Screen shot by Richardson is on him), and generally he did not look out of place at all against good opposition.

 

[Lions999]

I would like to see for a few games Subban Tinordi Markov beaulieu weaver Emelin

 

[Team_Spirit]

Keep poke-checking. Never play the body.

And swarm, swarm all night long. 2 D's behind the net is a great idea.

 

[Seb]

Josh Gorges > Tom Gilbert

He is god damn awful and I hope he's gone after this season.

 

[Baruch]

Keep poke-checking. Never play the body.

And swarm, swarm all night long. 2 D's behind the net is a great idea.

I find the Canadiens are the team that doesn't go for the body the most... It's disheartening.

 

[Ubercron9000*]

Gilbert has been horrible imo. He just sucks and imo is theworst defenseman on our D squad.

What bothers me is we got a PP specialist in Nygren in the AHL and he hasn't been called up. I rather have nygren have a try out right now than have Gilbert on the 2nd wave. Thats what I don't like right now about our d corps. Gilbert shouldn't be on this team. Terrible player. I don't care that he makes 2 million I want him out so pateryn or nygren come up and play for us. I think they are better options.

I've seen every montreal game and gilbert is horrible. Unfortunately I haven't seen any AHL games so I can't say if nygren or pateryn are ready to come up but I'd rather them than gilbert right now.

 

[Disappearing Semin]

I honestly think that the system is alot worse than the players themselves... Gilbert was a lot better in Florida. Subban was a lot better defensively under Martin, Markov is just alright and the rest is the rest.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Gilbert isn't the problem. He and Markov have been playing the toughest minutes of our D and putting up decent possession numbers. The fact that he doesn't need to throw his face in front of shots is a positive sign, not a negative...

The problem with our D is more systemic than a personnel issue. Boston was still one of the top defensive teams despite losing Seidenberg last season because they're so good in transition, no matter who they employ on D. Unless Galchenyuk's on the ice, our forwards just wait at the blue line with their fingers crossed hoping a pass will make it through 1 or 2 opponents and land on their stick. I won't even get started on our in zone coverage...

MB spent all that cash on GM assistants and scouts, but he should start spending more on coaching.

 

[S Bah]

I'm always interested in learning more about how our team is being built, as I have been since a child in Montreal in the 50's, delving into every possible source that had information about the Habs. The team has gone through hundreds of changes in their defence over those yrs., and the Dmen that will be forming the immediate future of our defence are veterans Markov, PK Subban, Emelin, possibly Gilbert whose 2 yr. contract suggests our GM likes his play. Having a GM (Marc Bergevin ex NHL Dman with almost 1200 regular season games played, with 8 different organizations, as a 6'0" - 185lbs. dman that was cheered for his checking game consistently) that is top 100 for NHL experience, I'm going to cheerfully accept that his knowledge about the game of hockey(particularly defence is in the top 100 at least) is far superior to anyone I've met personally. This said, my point is the Habs have the 2nd place tie in the NHL for a reason, not the least of that being a good defence.

Breaking in two 1st round picks(Tinordi #22 OV 2010, Beaulieu #17 OV 2011) during this season while incorporating Weaver(trade deadline 6th Dman) Gilbert (a UFA last July signed for two yrs.) to assist in the transition/ integrating the rookies gradually with veteran help, ensuring their development by using them in protected mins. building their confidence slowly. As he was used by GM's in his latter yrs. in the NHL, I'm very confident he has made all the right moves to "make it so"ensure his 1st rounders have the best partners. Now I'm not a hockey person, just a fanatical Hab/hockey enthusiast, one that watches every Hab game (Pre-season & regular games) every Team Canada game (Mens & Womens WHC's & WJHC's) as many Hamilton Bulldogs(Farm Team, AHL) games(that don't interfere with the Habs games) as time permits. The thing being even as a teenager, I realized what jobs I knew about (Trades, Construction) certainly not hockey, just a fan, and I learned to appreciate the winning ways of my Habs, could be used to benefit my teams work, by emulating the drive/work ethic and attention to detail the Habs were famous for.

Anyway the point being, my confidence in our GM with his reputed 24/7 work habits and his acquired knowledge, in a lifetime career in the sport of hockey, that he loves. It's only sensible to admire, try to understand the moves he makes, watch how the new players are used and learn from one of the acknowledged top %1 of hockey talent evaluators in the world. This is a hobby, my true love in my relaxation time and pretty much the only TV programming I watch regularly, my feeling about the defence is the Habs are going to have a similar type of strong PMD's and airtight defence as they had in the 70's once again. Bergevin will "Make it So", like Picard in Star Trek, not impossible from what I'm seeing these last couple of yrs., with him at the helm of the Habs.

 

[crystal ball]

Having a GM (Marc Bergevin ex NHL Dman with almost 1200 regular season games played, with 8 different organizations, as a 6'0" - 185lbs. dman that was cheered for his checking game consistently) that is top 100 for NHL experience, I'm going to cheerfully accept that his knowledge about the game of hockey(particularly defence is in the top 100 at least) is far superior to anyone I've met personally.

That's it! Maybe Bergevin can coach the D and get rid of JJD! Seriously, the GM has got to see there's a problem on the back end.

 

[DAChampion]

We have a new version of this thread once a month, it should be a sticky.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Tinordi has 1 giveaway this year and is still somehow MT's whipping boy #doublestandard
Gilbert scares me for a PMD and hasn't added near the offence I expected
Markov is playing too much and will be cooked by the playoffs
Weaver=Gorges but cheaper, ok as a 3rd pairing but ideally #7
Emelin is Jekyll & Hyde, can't see how switching him to his natural side has helped
Subban is not really playing bad but too many lazy penalties and poor decisions that are costly - he must be better
Beaulieu - still find him cocky and playing like he's in junior but without the physical play, jury is out for me but we need offence

Think we either have to accept the learning curve with the kids and play them more or go find a top 4 d-man

My vote's Combo #3

Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Beaulieu-Gilbert

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Watch the tape, and some of the minuses the fowards are blamed for are acutally the result of our D ****ing up.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Having a GM (Marc Bergevin ex NHL Dman with almost 1200 regular season games played, with 8 different organizations, as a 6'0" - 185lbs. dman that was cheered for his checking game consistently) that is top 100 for NHL experience, I'm going to cheerfully accept that his knowledge about the game of hockey(particularly defence is in the top 100 at least) is far superior to anyone I've met personally.

Randy Carlyle is a former Norris winner and he cannot coach defense to save his life. Great players do not always translate into great management. Not is not to say Bergevin has done a bad job, just that he is prone to mistakes. Gilbert looks to be a stats darling in retrospect and nothing more. It's a bit early to judge, but so far I think we stuck out here.

 

[Kriss E]

We could have an all star Dmen roster, they'd still get regularly exposed if we used them as we currently do with our group.

Daigneault is a terrible Dmen coach. It's really terrible. At least his principles are not working here. Or maybe he's being told by Therrien to coach them in a certain way. I don't know. But the way our forwards are playing also doesn't help anybody. We can't even cover the freaking point properly. So don't expect our defense to look good.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Keep poke-checking. Never play the body.

And swarm, swarm all night long. 2 D's behind the net is a great idea.

Perfect post.. Unlike JJDs teeth.. Yikes

 

[MasterD]

I don't like Beaulieu, but thought he was great in the preseason and the first games of the season. Taking him out of the lineup was a bad idea, everyone knows he has issues when demoted.

That said, I think our D corps will get better as the season goes on... everyone is freaking out, but 1/3 the team wasn't there last year. They have to learn to play together, some have to learn the system, etc.

Parenteau, Gilbert, Weaver (little part of last year), Malhotra, Sekac, Parenteau... give them some time before you throw them under the bus.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

I was all for trading Gorges, but now I realise we need another shut down defensman badly.

 

[S Bah]

Like a few posters here, I'm giving Gilbert time to get a feel for how his teammates play, (Their habits under pressure, how they prefer passes, how fast/slow they skate, etc.) Having all new players to get accustomed to playing with (forwards & different dmen & style of play) Florida having a huge team that doesn't resemble the Habs, must be quite a change. Same deal for Weaver, no defenceman is perfect and every team is out to win each game. Every player in the league makes mistakes even Sidney Crosby, thing is for him, he can get goals back like no other. Finding problems in others is easy to do, finding solutions that don't mortgage the future of the Habs is another bigger problem, in the meantime enjoy the fact that the poor forwards, poor defence & poor goaltending have the Habs in a tie for 2nd overall. Going against Chicago tonight will be a great test for the new players and how they respond, should either confuse the situation or point out the Yin/Yang (Balance) involved here.