The Misjudgment of Rasmus Ristolainin

[HaNotsri]

Murray didn't address D

Botterill failed.

We didn't have anyone to take those minutes

Murray actively dismantled our d.
Botts had a rhd hoarding problem.

 

[Djp]

I’m watching Reinhart this morning, and can’t help but think how so many of our former core has gone on to have amazing success. ROR and Eichel obviously, but also Lehner and Ullmark, complimentary guys like Kane, Montour, Rodriguez, Kulikov, etc. How did it not work out here? And it hit me - the entire time these guys played here, we judged Rasmus Ristolainin to be a 25 minute, all situations, no. 1 workhorse. Nobody played more hockey than him. And it turns out, he’s a complete disaster, here or anywhere else. A possession black hole. It honestly makes me think that this one misjudgment is what brought down the entire house of cards. How did we get it so wrong with him?

yes, risto was a bust. On paper he is what you want but it takes time for D to develop. you could blame how he was brought up in the org.

And I just want to clarify, this isn’t just a Ristolainin thread, this is my thesis for why the old core didn’t succeed here.

hw seems to be the one you blame

View attachment 856748

This is the organization asset chart at the time Murray was fired. They were ok on draft capital, but dead in the water on forward depth, forward roles, all things defense, and sketchy at best on goaltending due to Lehner's well-documented issues.

Their best forward prospect was Alex Nylander, a bust.
Their best defense prospect was Brendan Guhle, a bust who retired at 25.

The problem was TM.
for the 15/16 teams. you have some young players from recent drafts in 2012-2015, but there was the players from 2005-2011? You had your acquired players of Lehner, ROR, and Kane, Ennis ,Foligno was still around. Many of them were traded to acquire those players

2012-2015 Girgs, Risto, reinhart, Eichel, Ullmark ,prospects



you look at today with 2024/25 team

you have players from 21-24 draft--Power, Rosen, Benson, Kulich, Ostlund, savoie, other prospects

what do they have from 2015-2020 draft--

Eichel--Greenway, Tuch, Krebs
Reinhart--Levi (drafted in 2020)
Mitts--Byram
acquired Tage*
Nylander--Joker
drafted---Sam, Dahlin, Bryson, RyJo* Cozens, JPP, Quinn, UPL, Rousek

*--acquired through trading of ROR, Lehner, Kane

they appear to have more on he team now than the 15/16 team

This sabres club is better off that the post Eichel tank because there was more in the system prior to that new GM

 

[Gabrielor]

yes, risto was a bust. On paper he is what you want but it takes time for D to develop. you could blame how he was brought up in the org.


hw seems to be the one you blame


The problem was TM.
for the 15/16 teams. you have some young players from recent drafts in 2012-2015, but there was the players from 2005-2011? You had your acquired players of Lehner, ROR, and Kane, Ennis ,Foligno was still around. Many of them were traded to acquire those players

2012-2015 Girgs, Risto, reinhart, Eichel, Ullmark ,prospects



you look at today with 2024/25 team

you have players from 21-24 draft--Power, Rosen, Benson, Kulich, Ostlund, savoie, other prospects

what do they have from 2015-2020 draft--

Eichel--Greenway, Tuch, Krebs
Reinhart--Levi (drafted in 2020)
Mitts--Byram
acquired Tage*
Nylander--Joker
drafted---Sam, Dahlin, Bryson, RyJo* Cozens, JPP, Quinn, UPL, Rousek

*--acquired through trading of ROR, Lehner, Kane

they appear to have more on he team now than the 15/16 team

This sabres club is better off that the post Eichel tank because there was more in the system prior to that new GM

15-16 start vs 23-24 finish

Key for probably confusing colors:

 

[joshjull]

I’m watching Reinhart this morning, and can’t help but think how so many of our former core has gone on to have amazing success. ROR and Eichel obviously, but also Lehner and Ullmark, complimentary guys like Kane, Montour, Rodriguez, Kulikov, etc. How did it not work out here? And it hit me - the entire time these guys played here, we judged Rasmus Ristolainin to be a 25 minute, all situations, no. 1 workhorse. Nobody played more hockey than him. And it turns out, he’s a complete disaster, here or anywhere else. A possession black hole. It honestly makes me think that this one misjudgment is what brought down the entire house of cards. How did we get it so wrong with him?

Those teams sucked because they were poorly constructed and horribly coached. Risto’s usage was a symptom of both.

That wasn’t the case for the teams they went to.

 

[Djp]

Briere and Drury at least arrived with holdovers from the cup run, a previous winning group.

ROR may have had the Briere quality of embracing BUF (I'm dubious, we didn't get enough time to know), but Bogosian and Kane sure as shit didn't.

the 05-07 clubs

2002-05 drafts.....Vanek, Macaurther, Stafford, Sekera, Kaleta

1995-2001 drafts----Noranen,, Talinder, Afinaganov,, Campbell, Ka;inin, Kotalik, Peters, Miller, Roy, Pominville, Gaustead, Biron. McKee, Sarish, Rassumssen

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Rasmus Ristolainen, the prospect, was incredible. Big, right shot, growing two way game with offensive flair (see: gold medal wjc winner).

To me, he'll always be the story of the greatest era of Sabres non-development ever. He went to the NHL too soon (that entire 2012-2015 group did). Furthermore, too many awful coaches (Rolston, Nolan, Bylsma, Housley, Krueger).

With hindsight, they shouldn't have tanked in 2014-2015, BUT if you make them do it again, no prospect they mattered (like Risto, Zadorov, Girgensons, Reinhart, etc) should've been in the NHL. EVERYONE should've been in Rochester. Look today. Kulich in 2014 would already be in the top 6.



(Sidebar: You can hate Adams all you want. He's nailed fixing the part that doomed Risto.)

Murray tried to fast track the rebuild and Risto was one of the biggest victims.

 

[TehDoak]

Instead of 'drafting and developing' we run 'drafting and divesting'

It's odd the complete 'purge' of previous eras. Tim Murray emptied the Regier era war chest to get O'Reilly. Kane, and Lehner. That left us with Reinhart, Eichel, and Risto. Botterill sent off Lehner, Kane, O'Reilly, added Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Thompson, Skinner, Samuelsson, UPL. Adams sent off Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, and now Mittelstadt, and added Power, Byram, Quinn, Peterka, Tuch, and Levi.

Every time we transition GMs it seems to set us back a few seasons, until we are suddenly starting at our 4th rebuild and 13 years no playoffs.

 

[Matt Ress]

I'm pretty sure the defense was horribly untalented with no depth at forward and poor coaching. Risto was just a piece in the puzzle

 

[Matt Ress]

Rasmus Ristolainen, the prospect, was incredible. Big, right shot, growing two way game with offensive flair (see: gold medal wjc winner).

To me, he'll always be the story of the greatest era of Sabres non-development ever. He went to the NHL too soon (that entire 2012-2015 group did). Furthermore, too many awful coaches (Rolston, Nolan, Bylsma, Housley, Krueger).

With hindsight, they shouldn't have tanked in 2014-2015, BUT if you make them do it again, no prospect they mattered (like Risto, Zadorov, Girgensons, Reinhart, etc) should've been in the NHL. EVERYONE should've been in Rochester. Look today. Kulich in 2014 would already be in the top 6.



(Sidebar: You can hate Adams all you want. He's nailed fixing the part that doomed Risto.)

Defense is much better today. More depth at forward coming this summer, probably better goaltending and a coach that at least knows his elbow from his left toe. The forward star power may not be as strong as some of those seasons but might be.

 

[Chainshot]

Instead of 'drafting and developing' we run 'drafting and divesting'

It's odd the complete 'purge' of previous eras. Tim Murray emptied the Regier era war chest to get O'Reilly. Kane, and Lehner. That left us with Reinhart, Eichel, and Risto. Botterill sent off Lehner, Kane, O'Reilly, added Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Thompson, Skinner, Samuelsson, UPL. Adams sent off Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, and now Mittelstadt, and added Power, Byram, Quinn, Peterka, Tuch, and Levi.

Every time we transition GMs it seems to set us back a few seasons, until we are suddenly starting at our 4th rebuild and 13 years no playoffs.

Eh, teams roll over pretty fast. There are what, 12?, guys from the Avs 2022 Cup team still in Colorado and it hasn't even been two years yet. Teams change. Tampa from 2021 has 10 and that's including Daniel Walcott's single game this year.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

He failed because no one moved him to RW

Some day I will be vindicated

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Some day I will be vindicated

Best net front presence in the past 13 years

 

[Dingo44]

*Ristolainen

 

[Selanne00008]

I'm quite comforted knowing we got a 1st rounder + for him. It was shocking, but in hindsight it's even better knowing it wasn't just Sabres staff over and over that over utilized him.

Just checked. Wow 4 points in 31 games for philly. On top of that Philly paid him. 5 years 25 mill.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

and then hed play OEL and youd think he found it because he became violent moose

the strange case of rasmus ristolainen

if he couldnt skate it out of the zone you knew they were never getting it out

 

[TehDoak]

Eh, teams roll over pretty fast. There are what, 12?, guys from the Avs 2022 Cup team still in Colorado and it hasn't even been two years yet. Teams change. Tampa from 2021 has 10 and that's including Daniel Walcott's single game this year.

Yeah, but the core is still there in both cases.

We've burned through core players.

 

[toomuchsauce]

still convinced that the sabres did it to him. Put a young defenseman in the league at 19, on a team designed to tank that's historically bad in terms of giving up shot attempts, and he's going to "learn" to pack it in, not get beat wide, and generally be extremely passive in the d zone. and oh yeah, play him over 20 minutes per game on this team and he's not even going to try to do much beyond that anyway since he's going to run out of gas halfway through the game if he does.

i do not buy into the notion that it turns out he was just bad all along. they turned him into the worst corsi player in history, or whatever the f***. It was not preordained; it didn't have to be that way.