The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread Part II (assigned to Québec)

[jfb392]

I'm trying to figure out the same thing too...

Yeah, she's probably just wrong again like she was when she said in no uncertain terms that he would not be able to compete in the NHL this season.

Oh wait..

Click to read more...

 

[enthusiast]

Right once, right forever

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, she's probably just wrong again like she was when she said in no uncertain terms that he would not be able to compete in the NHL this season.

Oh wait..

I'm lost. Who is she? and what is she wrong or not wrong about?

 

[jfb392]

Right once, right forever

No, but she's certainly in a better position to evaluate his play than someone who just looks at a boxscore since she watches him on a nightly basis.

I get the feeling too many people see the Habs avatar and just write it off as guaranteed to be biased.

I'm lost. Who is she? and what is she wrong or not wrong about?

She = sc74.
She took a lot of crap from Sabres fans when she poured water on the uncontrollable fire that was Grigorenko's hype coming out of training camp by saying he would not be able to compete in the NHL.

 

[enthusiast]

*Grigorenko scores 3 points per game*

*Assertion he's invisible*

I hope you understand why some might feel a bit confused as to how that's possible. The burden is upon the one making the statement to prove it as best they can.

Frankly, I don't care one way or the other. He is what he is, and he'll get there eventually.

 

[joshjull]

No, but she's certainly in a better position to evaluate his play than someone who just looks at a boxscore since she watches him on a nightly basis.

I get the feeling too many people see the Habs avatar and just write it off as guaranteed to be biased.

She = sc74.
She took a lot of crap from Sabres fans when she poured water on the uncontrollable fire that was Grigorenko's hype coming out of training camp by saying he would not be able to compete in the NHL.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[jfb392]

*Grigorenko scores 3 points per game*

*Assertion he's invisible*

I hope you understand why some might feel a bit confused as to how that's possible. The burden is upon the one making the statement to prove it as best they can.

Frankly, I don't care one way or the other. He is what he is, and he'll get there eventually.

From my viewings anyways, most of it likely comes from his good decisions being buried by his bad decisions.
For every one good pass, there's probably five rushes that needlessly die on his stick.

 

[aceface33]

She = sc74.
She took a lot of crap from Sabres fans when she poured water on the uncontrollable fire that was Grigorenko's hype coming out of training camp by saying he would not be able to compete in the NHL.

Can you point me to this? I think "lot of crap" and "uncontrollable fire" might be overstating things a bit. People have different opinions sometimes.

 

[enthusiast]

From my viewings anyways, most of it likely comes from his good decisions being buried by his bad decisions.
For every one good pass, there's probably five rushes that needlessly die on his stick.

That's fine and a valid criticism. If that was in the original post there's less objection.

 

[jfb392]

Can you point me to this? I think "lot of crap" and "uncontrollable fire" might be overstating things a bit. People have different opinions sometimes.

It was here and likely in this thread also, as I remember some being more displeased with what they were hearing.

The hype would be a reference to that stupid Buffalo News article comparing him to Lemieux based on a single practice and WGR constantly talking about him and asking other players about him, rather than asking questions that actually pertain to them.

 

[tsujimoto74]

CoHo and Foligno can be returned to Rochester. They are waiver exempt. They could put together a pretty disgusting lineup, especially if Assat (Armia) and Quebec (Grigs) are eliminated early from their respective leagues' playoffs.

Oh, man would that be nasty.

Foligno-Hodgson-Flynn
Girgensons-Porter-Mancari
Ellis-Grigorenko-Armia
who-cares-at-this-point?

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Oh, man would that be nasty.

Foligno-Hodgson-Flynn
Girgensons-Porter-Mancari
Ellis-Grigorenko-Armia
who-cares-at-this-point?

But then if they were to win the Sabres would have to hire Cassidy in the off-season as he would be the hottest minor coach going around and our Amerks friends would complain about the team not being as stocked every year.

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

From my viewings anyways, most of it likely comes from his good decisions being buried by his bad decisions.
For every one good pass, there's probably five rushes that needlessly die on his stick.

Do you think this is something that will get better with time or is this something that relates to lack of effort or lapses in thought?

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Don't get me wrong, I like Grigorenko a lot and I think all the crap he got since last year is very unfair. I've spoken to him a few times and he has always been a really nice person to talk too. He's a smart kid on and off the ice. I was sad for him when he fell down so much in the draft as I thought he deserved better.

However, he wasn't ready to be a NHLer yet as his compete level is still deficient. He is better than he was a year ago though. It's not about stats, it's about how he plays. I can give you a huge list of players who put up many points in the QMJHL and never made it as a NHLers after. Grigorenko is a very skilled player but he often lacks intensity. Against a team like Chicoutimi, it's not that bad and he can still get points but when it'll get tougher, he won't get away with it so easily. His line and especially him have been really bad on defense, creating a lot of turnovers. I'd like him to be better at even strength and in one on one battles. It's not normal that a 6'3 and 200lbs player gets so easily manhandled in the QMJHL.

I'd like to say he has been really good but I know he can do better. Maybe I'm too hard on him but it's like a mother with her child, I really want him to succeed.

 

[enthusiast]

Don't get me wrong, I like Grigorenko a lot and I think all the crap he got since last year is very unfair. I've spoken to him a few times and he has always been a really nice person to talk too. He's a smart kid on and off the ice. I was sad for him when he fell down so much in the draft as I thought he deserved better.

However, he wasn't ready to be a NHLer yet as his compete level is still deficient. He is better than he was a year ago though. It's not about stats, it's about how he plays. I can give you a huge list of players who put up many points in the QMJHL and never made it as a NHLers after. Grigorenko is a very skilled player but he often lacks intensity. Against a team like Chicoutimi, it's not that bad and he can still get points but when it'll get tougher, he won't get away with it so easily. His line and especially him have been really bad on defense, creating a lot of turnovers. I'd like him to be better at even strength and in one on one battles. It's not normal that a 6'3 and 200lbs player gets so easily manhandled in the QMJHL.

I'd like to say he has been really good but I know he can do better. Maybe I'm too hard on him but it's like a mother with her child, I really want him to succeed.

What might you attribute to his shortcomings? Effort? Mental deficiencies?

Do you project this as a problem for his future development?

 

[SergeConstantin74]

What might you attribute to his shortcomings? Effort? Mental deficiencies?

Do you project this as a problem for his future development?

I think it's just the way he is. I don't expect him to become the most intense player on the ice but I do expect more consistency shift after shift. Offensively, he is a wizard and can make plays that not a lot of hockey players can make. That's why I think he'll make it anyway.

 

[enthusiast]

I think it's just the way he is. I don't expect him to become the most intense player on the ice but I do expect more consistency shift after shift. Offensively, he is a wizard and can make plays that not a lot of hockey players can make. That's why I think he'll make it anyway.

Are we talking "make it" like Thornton? Or "make it" like Connolly ? Obviously I'm just looking for an educated guess.

 

[Revo]

Don't get me wrong, I like Grigorenko a lot and I think all the crap he got since last year is very unfair. I've spoken to him a few times and he has always been a really nice person to talk too. He's a smart kid on and off the ice. I was sad for him when he fell down so much in the draft as I thought he deserved better.

However, he wasn't ready to be a NHLer yet as his compete level is still deficient. He is better than he was a year ago though. It's not about stats, it's about how he plays. I can give you a huge list of players who put up many points in the QMJHL and never made it as a NHLers after. Grigorenko is a very skilled player but he often lacks intensity. Against a team like Chicoutimi, it's not that bad and he can still get points but when it'll get tougher, he won't get away with it so easily. His line and especially him have been really bad on defense, creating a lot of turnovers. I'd like him to be better at even strength and in one on one battles. It's not normal that a 6'3 and 200lbs player gets so easily manhandled in the QMJHL.

I'd like to say he has been really good but I know he can do better. Maybe I'm too hard on him but it's like a mother with her child, I really want him to succeed.

I don't agree with the bolded, first playoffs game aside.

As for the rest, I agree partially. I'd like him to dominate too, he has the tools to do it and it's not the case very often. With that said, the progression is there (had a good check per game up to now... never would have seen that a year ago... only an example, I'm not saying that particular fact is that important) and I'm not sure it's fair to «linearize» his future impact. What I mean is, sure, he should be better against Chicoutimi (no offence to their fans), but if/when Grigo plays against top teams... I'd have a hard time criticizing him if he still finds way to contribute efficiently. I'm actually cautiously confident he can do that.

His style in itself is also deceiving, in my opinion. Cerebral players are often easier targets than other types, because what they do good doesn't always jump into your face to tell you it's good, with it's annoying, squeaky voice (nevermind that last bit). Also, and that's probably a sentence that sounds good more than it is true, intellectual players have something over hyperactive players that you just can't see, and that is the bad plays they choose not to do.

Next fall could bring a tough decision, kind of.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Are we talking "make it" like Thornton? Or "make it" like Connolly ? Obviously I'm just looking for an educated guess.

I think it'll depend how Buffalo develops him. I always thought it was better for talented players to dominate inferior levels than sruggling in a higher caliber. Jonathan Huberdeau is a good example. It didn't hurt him to dominate during 2 years in the QMJHL.

 

[jfb392]

Do you think this is something that will get better with time or is this something that relates to lack of effort or lapses in thought?

Hard to say since that's the type of thing you evaluate over time.
I don't really question the effort, but rather the intelligence at times.
I thought he had some top notch hockey sense (offensive, at least) before, but after watching him more, he's left me scratching my head at times.

Whether he/the organization can iron these things out is yet to be seen.
I think it could probably be minimalized if he gets faster and is able to throw off defenders in different ways, as he'd probably feel less of a need to force things that aren't there.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

His style in itself is also deceiving, in my opinion. Cerebral players are often easier targets than other types, because what they do good doesn't always jump into your face to tell you it's good, with it's annoying, squeaky voice (nevermind that last bit). Also, and that's probably a sentence that sounds good more than it is true, intellectual players have something over hyperactive players that you just can't see, and that is the bad plays they choose not to do.

I'm 100% with you on this. I feel like most often, people expects him to be something that he isn't. People hears he's good so they expect him to be spectacular but outside of the PP, he isn't spectacular. He's not very fast and he not going to go one on one with a defenseman and beat him. His game is more about being patient with the puck and finding his teammates instead of trying to do it by himself.

As for the defensive part, how can you just forget the 1st and 3rd games? His line has been really soft on defense sometimes. They were on the ice for 6 of Chicoutimi's 10 goals. 3 of the goals against they weren't on the ice were scored on the PP. Of course, they create the most offensive chances and always play against the other team's best line but they can do better that's for sure.

 

[Revo]

I'm 100% with you on this. I feel like most often, people expects him to be something that he isn't. People hears he's good so they expect him to be spectacular but outside of the PP, he isn't spectacular. He's not very fast and he not going to go one on one with a defenseman and beat him. His game is more about being patient with the puck and finding his teammates instead of trying to do it by himself.

As for the defensive part, how can you just forget the 1st and 3rd games? His line has been really soft on defense sometimes. They were on the ice for 6 of Chicoutimi's 10 goals. 3 of the goals against they weren't on the ice were scored on the PP. Of course, they create the most offensive chances and always play against the other team's best line but they can do better that's for sure.

I clearly said apart from the first game

I don't remember anything special in the third game, at least two of the goals were Brassard's fault, by far, and if the third goal wasn't weak, it still wasn't any skater's fault. Then again, I could be wrong, or the camera work could have thrown off one of us.

 

[sabresfan129103]

The Remparts move on to the 2nd round. Grigs with one goal. Here are the highlights. http://www.rds.ca/vidéos/remparts-4-saguenéens-3-prolongation-1.604622

 

[SergeConstantin74]

I clearly said apart from the first game

I don't remember anything special in the third game, at least two of the goals were Brassard's fault, by far, and if the third goal wasn't weak, it still wasn't any skater's fault. Then again, I could be wrong, or the camera work could have thrown off one of us.

I think the 5th game proved my point about his line being always on the ice for Chicoutimi's goals.

Sorensen's injury will hurt him. They had good chemistry and Sorensen's work in front of the net was great. Shaw isn't as good.

I like how Grigorenko seems really happy to be there. He was the first player from the bench to jump in the celebration on the OT winner. It's quite evident that he wants to win these playoffs.

 

[Revo]

I think the 5th game proved my point about his line being always on the ice for Chicoutimi's goals.

Sorensen's injury will hurt him. They had good chemistry and Sorensen's work in front of the net was great. Shaw isn't as good.

I like how Grigorenko seems really happy to be there. He was the first player from the bench to jump in the celebration on the OT winner. It's quite evident that he wants to win these playoffs.

It was his second terrible game, I'm still saying he wasn't that way in the other 4... even though 2 out of 6 is too many bad games.

Not going to criticize him too much for that though, I did expect him to be searching for his game in the 1st round... I don't remember if my comment to that effect was on here or elsewhere.

His (and the team's) «true» test is starting friday.