The Jim Benning & Management Megathread Part IV (MOD WARNING POST #554, #801)

[vanuck]

Because 'bottom line results' is not a smart way to judge team quality. The Canucks had a lot of things that are a coin toss (i.e. not a repeatable skill) go bad for them Gillis' last year, and a lot of things that are a coin toss go well for them last year.

Just wondering, but what were the things that were a coin toss that didn't go in favour of the 2013-14 Canucks? Things like one-goal games, injuries etc.?

 

[Ryp37]

Listening to Burrows interview earlier this month in french on RDS it sure sounds like a re-tool. He was asked if the team was in an "all-in mode" given that the Sedins are getting older and he said he didn't think so. He said that management has come to realise that they need to transition and that they're going to be trying to give ice time to their young players and develop them. That being said they don't want to be like the Oilers so they will try to reach the play-offs where anything can happen but for now he thinks they are in transition.

It doesn't matter if it's a re tool or a rebuild when the management continually makes brain scratching moves

It seems more like a reverse re tool
Prust for Kassian and a 5th, ship out your old 4th liner for an up n coming power forward
3rd and 7th for Lack, two late/recoupable picks for a young starter

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Again, all you have to do is compare Benning's moves to similar moves for similar (and sometimes worse) players on other organizations to see Benning has gotten ripped off on almost every transaction so far. There are literally dozens of these moves.

For example, the Lack trade. In the 2013-2014 season here were the goaltender transations that involved picks (so no Miller trade etc):

-Halak + 3rd for Neuvirth + Klesla
-Berra for a 2nd
-Dubnyk for futures
-Viktor Fasth for a 3rd + 5th
-Scrivens for 3rd

Berra was coming off a season with a .897 save percentage. None of the goalies above had ever played more than 29 games in a season, and none had been in the league for more than 3 seasons. IF you add in this year's trades including the outlandish price for Jones and three picks for Talbot and it's evident that a 2nd round pick and a later round pick would have been fair compensation.

Also, Benning just seems to have no clue what he is doing in things like cap management.

The fact that we are once again missing draft picks in the 2016 season (if Wispi is correct) when Benning basically failed to restock the picks he traded away in the first place is alarming. Is he going to be scrambling to do this every year?

As pitseleh pointed out, the idea that he didn't pick up the arbitration option on Sbisa is mind boggling.

I'm also trying to keep an open mind but it's more like 'well, this dude has been stabbed through the chest so I hope he lives' moreso than 'these moves might turn out to be good'.

I think we've seen goalie prices fluctuate so I don't take too much from historical data.

 

[canucksfan]

I think we've seen goalie prices fluctuate so I don't take too much from historical data.

Historical? It was one season. Even so, out of the main goalies that got traded this year, Benning got the worse value back for his goalie. Seems to be a constant theme with him, getting horrible value back when he trades.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I think we've seen goalie prices fluctuate so I don't take too much from historical data.

There is literally an excuse for every benchmark.

Cant take recent examples because Lack isnt "one of them".

Cant take historical examples because of changes in "the market".

Only Lack can be compared to Lack. Genius.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Historical? It was one season. Even so, out of the main goalies that got traded this year, Benning got the worse value back for his goalie. Seems to be a constant theme with him, getting horrible value back when he trades.

I'm not naive enough to think Benning is going to get more for a player who as seen as less around the league.

 

[Ryp37]

I'm not naive enough to think Benning is going to get more for a player who as seen as less around the league.

Naive enough to eat up Bennings reasonings after his poor moves though

#mentor #character

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Naive enough to eat up Bennings reasonings after his poor moves though

#mentor #character

Reasoning is my own and based on the direction I would like to see the team go after the past 3 years of futility.

 

[canucksfan]

I'm not naive enough to think Benning is going to get more for a player who as seen as less around the league.

Kesler has/had value around the league and he got a crappy return. Garrison had/has value around the league and he got a crappy return.

Benning has got poor value back on quite a few trades. When you announce that you want a 2nd rounder for Lack, you already set your value low.

There isn't a trade IMO that Benning has got really good value back. A few trades were fine, Baertschi, Bieksa and Pedan but the rest he has got poor value back.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Kesler has/had value around the league and he got a crappy return. Garrison had/has value around the league and he got a crappy return.

Benning has got poor value back on quite a few trades. When you announce that you want a 2nd rounder for Lack, you already set your value low.

There isn't a trade IMO that Benning has got really good value back. A few trades were fine, Baertschi, Bieksa and Pedan but the rest he has got poor value back.

Both Kesler and Garrison had those country club NTCs handed out by Gilman like one of those hippos hand out free solids at the 4:20 rally. that really handcuffed the GMs ability to make good and honest trades. Context is important here.

 

[canucksfan]

Both Kesler and Garrison had those country club NTCs handed out by Gilman like one of those hippos hand out free solids at the 4:20 rally. that really handcuffed the GMs ability to make good and honest trades. Context is important here.

Having NTC for good players such as Kesler and Garrison is not a bad problem. That happens frequently with pretty much every team in the league.

Benning for whatever reason wanted to get rid of Garrison. Top 4 d man on a very good contract shouldn't be traded for a 2nd rounder.

Benning traded Kesler too quickly and got a very poor return for a great two way centre. He got back a borderline 2nd line centre, a high first round draft pick and a cap dump.

You are making tons of excuses for Benning when the fact is this is a GM who has got poor value back on the majority of his trades.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Having NTC for good players such as Kesler and Garrison is not a bad problem. That happens frequently with pretty much every team in the league.

Benning for whatever reason wanted to get rid of Garrison. Top 4 d man on a very good contract shouldn't be traded for a 2nd rounder.

Benning traded Kesler too quickly and got a very poor return for a great two way centre. He got back a borderline 2nd line centre, a high first round draft pick and a cap dump.

You are making tons of excuses for Benning when the fact is this is a GM who has got poor value back on the majority of his trades.

Garrison is a big meh for me. Complaining about the return on the Kesler deal is futile, guy had us over the barrel and Benning got a much better deal than the one Gillis and the Ducks GM were negotiating, reported by Kuzma to be Two 2nds and Etem.

 

[Canucker]

Having NTC for good players such as Kesler and Garrison is not a bad problem. That happens frequently with pretty much every team in the league.

Benning for whatever reason wanted to get rid of Garrison. Top 4 d man on a very good contract shouldn't be traded for a 2nd rounder.

Benning traded Kesler too quickly and got a very poor return for a great two way centre. He got back a borderline 2nd line centre, a high first round draft pick and a cap dump.

You are making tons of excuses for Benning when the fact is this is a GM who has got poor value back on the majority of his trades.

IMO a big part of the problem was also that Benning/Linden began their tenure preaching "change" in a very public way...when you've created that mandate, you have to follow through...by doing that he put a lot more pressure on himself to actually make changes and probably hamstrung himself in negotiations.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

IMO a big part of the problem was also that Benning/Linden began their tenure preaching "change" in a very public way...when you've created that mandate, you have to follow through...by doing that he put a lot more pressure on himself to actually make changes and probably hamstrung himself in negotiations.

Their entire mandate is change, so of course they are going to talk about it. Getting rid of Garrison was a positive move. You just aren't going to get a lot of value for players with the "Gilman Guarantee", or otherwise known as a NTC.

I think Garrisons value is probably about a 2nd.

 

[canucksfan]

Garrison is a big meh for me. Complaining about the return on the Kesler deal is futile, guy had us over the barrel and Benning got a much better deal than the one Gillis and the Ducks GM were negotiating, reported by Kuzma to be Two 2nds and Etem.

How is a top four dman a big meh for you? Garrison could have easily got a better return if Benning wasn't so eager to trade him.

Benning could have got a better return for Kesler for sure. Don't believe Kuzma for one second. You aren't trading one of the best two way centres in the league for two 2nds and Etem. Benning didn't have to trade Kesler so quickly. He could have waited for the Ducks to cave or Kesler to expand his teams.

Benning has received poor value on the majority of his trades.

 

[Canucker]

Their entire mandate is change, so of course they are going to talk about it. Getting rid of Garrison was a positive move. You just aren't going to get a lot of value for players with the "Gilman Guarantee", or otherwise known as a NTC.

I think Garrisons value is probably about a 2nd.

I had no problem getting rid of Garrison (replacing him with Sbisa is another matter), or virtually any other defenseman we have....but I don't think he got good value for Garrison who I believe is a very good quality, top 4 defender. And then I believe he pissed away the 2nd in acquiring Vey, an older rookie, soft, small center who couldn't crack the Kings lineup and was going to be waiver eligible. All in all, a lot of poor managerial decisions IMO.

 

[Barney Gumble]

guy had us over the barrel

Ryan Miller had Benning over the barrel because he had so many other West Coast teams to choose from.

 

[canucksfan]

Their entire mandate is change, so of course they are going to talk about it. Getting rid of Garrison was a positive move. You just aren't going to get a lot of value for players with the "Gilman Guarantee", or otherwise known as a NTC.

I think Garrisons value is probably about a 2nd.

Ya a top four defenseman on a good contract is worth a 2nd rounder. If that were true, you would see quite a few teams trading for top for dman quite frequently.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Approaching 1,000 posts. New thread opened.

Closed.