The Jim Benning & Management Megathread Part IV (MOD WARNING POST #554, #801)

[Bourne Endeavor]

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[DL44]

5+ days for the other to 1000.. not bad HF.. not bad.

His transactions..

Trades:
Kesler, 3rd for Sbisa, Bonino, 1st (McCann), 3rd
3rd for Dorsett
Garrison for 2nd
2nd for Vey
Lain for Acton
Mallet, 3rd for Pedan
Forsling for Clendening
Jeffrey for Conacher
2nd for Baertschi
---------------
Lack for a 3rd and 7th
McNally for a 7th
Kassian, 5th for Prust
Bieksa for a 2nd

Signings:
AHL - Biega, Jeffrey, O'Reilly, Sanguinetti, Andersson, Archibald, Cannata, Freisen
ELC - McCann, Virtanen, Subban, Stewart
Miller 3 yrs, $6 mil per
Vrbata 2 yrs, $5 mil per
Kassian 2 yr, $1.75 per
Weber 1yr, $850K
Tanev 1yr, $2mil
Tanev 5yr, $4.45 mil per
Vey 1yr, $735K
Dorsett 3yr, $2.65 mil per
Sbisa 3 yr, $3.6 per
Kenins 1yr, $600K
-------------------
AHL - Fedun 1yr, $600K, Bachman 2yrs, $575K per, Jones 1yr, $600K, Grenier, 1yr
Vey 1yr, $1 mil
Bartkowski 1yr, $1.75 mil
Weber 1yr, $1.5 mil
Markstrom 2yrs, $1.55 per
Corrado, 1yr $600K
Clendening, 1yr $760K


Draft Class:

2014: Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling, Pettit, Stewart
2015: Boeser, Brisebois, Zhukenov, Neill, Gaudette, Jasek, Olson


Year 1 turnover:

OUT:
Garrison, Kesler, Santorelli, Booth, Sestito, Dalpe, Schroeder, Welsh, Lain, Pelletier, Sauve, Ferriero, Mallet
IN:
Vrbata, Miller, Bonino, Vey, Dorsett, Sbisa, McMillan, Baertschi, Sanguinetti, Pedan, Clendening, Conacher, Acton, Hamilton


Year 2 turnover:

OUT:
Bieksa, Lack, Matthias, Richardson, Kassian, Eriksson, Conacher, O'Reilly, Sanguinetti, McNally, McMillan, Defazio
IN:
Bartkowski, Prust, Fedun, Bachman, Jones


==========================

High end Skill: Sedin, Sedin
Starts with B: Bonino, Baertstchi, Burrows
Starts with H:Higgins, Hansen, Horvat
Starts with V: Vey, Virtanen, Vrbata
Will hit you: Kenins, Dorsett, Prust

D: Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Weber, Sbisa, Bartkowski, Corrado, Clendening

G: Miller, Markstrom

 

[MS]

So you are just going to shrug it off.

I expected better from you.

I'm not shrugging it off. I think Silfverberg might be able to take a step forward. Maroon is a 3rd liner.

But regardless, my original point holds. Very few teams have multiple 'line carrying' guys on their 2nd line. Including Cup contenders. It isn't like most teams have three 60-point guys on their 2nd line and we were trotting out Higgins. Every team is playing a Higgins (or worse) or two.

 

[DL44]

I'm not shrugging it off. I think Silfverberg might be able to take a step forward. Maroon is a 3rd liner.

But regardless, my original point holds. Very few teams have multiple 'line carrying' guys on their 2nd line. Including Cup contenders. It isn't like most teams have three 60-point guys on their 2nd line and we were trotting out Higgins. Every team is playing a Higgins (or worse) or two.

Yup..
Chicago finally got a 2nd center they've been searching seasons for... won 2 cups while looking as well.

 

[Cupless44]

I'm not shrugging it off. I think Silfverberg might be able to take a step forward. Maroon is a 3rd liner.

But regardless, my original point holds. Very few teams have multiple 'line carrying' guys on their 2nd line. Including Cup contenders. It isn't like most teams have three 60-point guys on their 2nd line and we were trotting out Higgins. Every team is playing a Higgins (or worse) or two.

I would rather have Maroon on my team than Higgins.

Hard to fathom some posters are actually saying Higgins is fine as a 2nd liner. 1 goal in his last 15 playoff games while doing nothing. Yikes.

 

[Upoil]

I would rather have Maroon on my team than Higgins.

Hard to fathom some posters are actually saying Higgins is fine as a 2nd liner. 1 goal in his last 15 playoff games while doing nothing. Yikes.

Funny. I'm reading the same posts and I'm seeing the majority of posters say that he is a good third liner that is miscast and played on the second line due to a lack of personnel.

 

[MS]

I would rather have Maroon on my team than Higgins.

Hard to fathom some posters are actually saying Higgins is fine as a 2nd liner. 1 goal in his last 15 playoff games while doing nothing. Yikes.

I'd rather have Maroon than Higgins, too. Which is irrelevant.

What people are saying is that this is a good 3rd line player on a good contract who has upward mobility to be serviceable on a 2nd line. Which he is.

Chris Higgins is the least of our problems. That he's become sort of issue here is bizarre.

 

[banme*]

Higgins is the type of player that you want to keep during a rebuild and put on a line with a rookie/younger player to help ease them along, exactly the same as Hansen with Horvat last year (Virtanen being the exception, guy is going to get a lot of attention the way he plays so for that reason I don't mind acquiring Prust, just wish we didn't already have Dorsett). Cheap-ish contract, reliable defensively, great work ethic.

 

[RobertKron]

I'd rather have Maroon than Higgins, too. Which is irrelevant.

What people are saying is that this is a good 3rd line player on a good contract who has upward mobility to be serviceable on a 2nd line. Which he is.

Chris Higgins is the least of our problems. That he's become sort of issue here is bizarre.

He hasn't become an issue. It's pretty much one poster that unfailingly posts the same thing about Higgins' NTC regardless of what the discussion is about, and then another 2-4 posters who dive in like clockwork and shift discussion to Gillis no matter what is being discussed in the first place. I don't understand why everyone - myself included - continues to indulge them.

 

[MarkMM]

Higgins is a good value 3rd liner, the only people I hear who keep parroting about him being on the second line are those who ignore that no one thinks he should be in the top six and it's not his fault he's up there.

 

[MS]

He hasn't become an issue. It's pretty much one poster that unfailingly posts the same thing about Higgins' NTC regardless of what the discussion is about, and then another 2-4 posters who dive in like clockwork and shift discussion to Gillis no matter what is being discussed in the first place. I don't understand why everyone - myself included - continues to indulge them.

Fair enough. I'll be done with it, too.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

I'd rather have Maroon than Higgins, too. Which is irrelevant.

What people are saying is that this is a good 3rd line player on a good contract who has upward mobility to be serviceable on a 2nd line. Which he is.

Chris Higgins is the least of our problems. That he's become sort of issue here is bizarre.

I'd add that on a team with an excellent second line centre and a better than average 2nd line winger he's a perfectly good 'last guy' in your top 6. (i.e. was a lot better with Kesler as his centre than Bonino).

 

[Cupless44]

Higgins is the type of player that you want to keep during a rebuild and put on a line with a rookie/younger player to help ease them along, exactly the same as Hansen with Horvat last year (Virtanen being the exception, guy is going to get a lot of attention the way he plays so for that reason I don't mind acquiring Prust, just wish we didn't already have Dorsett). Cheap-ish contract, reliable defensively, great work ethic.

Problem is that there is no room for Virtanen or Grenier or Kenins to get ice time if you are giving it to "what you see is what you get veterans" like Higgins who are part of a core no longer good enough.

 

[dave babych returns]

Funny. I'm reading the same posts and I'm seeing the majority of posters say that he is a good third liner that is miscast and played on the second line due to a lack of personnel.

Hear hear.

It's hard not to read such a wildly inaccurate characterization of a discussion and start wondering about other things

 

[Cupless44]

Hear hear.

It's hard not to read such a wildly inaccurate characterization of a discussion and start wondering about other things

Really?

Because I am reading posts that are saying Higgins is perfectly fine on the 2nd line if he has a good centre to play with.

 

[Verviticus]

he's both. its almost as if a line is the sum of the three parts rather than a chain that breaks on the weak link, and a better centre lets you use a larger variety of wingers O_O shocking if true

 

[Proto]

Really?

Because I am reading posts that are saying Higgins is perfectly fine on the 2nd line if he has a good centre to play with.

Whom would you rather have?

A) Chris Higgins

B) Derek Dorsett

Whom would you rather have?

A) Chris Higgins

B) Brandon Prust

 

[Rex Banner]

Higgins has the same problem Hansen had. When he's in the top 6 everyone hates him because he isn't suited for that role. Move him back to the bottom 6 and no one will have a problem with him.

 

[banme*]

Problem is that there is no room for Virtanen or Grenier or Kenins to get ice time if you are giving it to "what you see is what you get veterans" like Higgins who are part of a core no longer good enough.

I honestly fully expect Kenins to start the year in Utica based on what we've heard about the demand for Higgins, and I don't think that would be a bad thing. Virtanen seems to be developing as a RW, so unless we're switching Dorsett back to the right side (which didn't sound like what was going to happen based off of Benning's recent comments, although who knows really as he didn't directly name Dorsett, only that we moved out a RW and brought in a LW) I don't think any of the guys that fit that description will keep him out of a 4th line role. So based off of that, I would guess our opening night forward corps would be:

sedin sedin vrbata/burrows
baertschi bonino burrows/vrbata
higgins horvat hansen
prust/dorsett vey virtanen/grenier

Once someone on the left side is moved (someone being Higgins in this example, although my earlier comment holds as I think he is a good fit but we won't move Dorsett), Kenins would be called up, although it's likely Prust and Dorsett would slot in on the LW and Kenins will be the 13th forward (which I don't agree with, just going off of what I expect to happen). Now if Dorsett is moved back to the RW, all of this is moot lol.

Edit: I also wouldn't mind going out and acquiring Santorelli for that 4C role. I don't have anything against Vey, but I don't feel he is a part of our future core of forwards, whereas Virtanen will be and I think Santorelli would have a better impact on his development than Vey.

 

[Proto]

Problem is that there is no room for Virtanen or Grenier or Kenins to get ice time if you are giving it to "what you see is what you get veterans" like Higgins who are part of a core no longer good enough.

Dorsett is the 5th highest paid forward on the team. Is he a good enough core player to take ice time away from those players?

 

[ahmon]

Dorsett is the 5th highest paid forward on the team. Is he a good enough core player to take ice time away from those players?

Anyone here feel Dorsett is underpaid?

why are you continuing talking about something that the majority agrees with
?

 

[Proto]

Anyone here feel Dorsett is underpaid?

why are you continuing talking about something that the majority agrees with
?

Sorry, weren't you just commenting last thread that you were happier with Dorsett's performance as a 4th liner than Higgins' as a 2nd liner?

If this is so settled, why is anyone complaining about Higgins? Dorsett and Prust were both acquired (and, in Dorsett's case, re-signed) while Higgins was already under contract. Higgins' contract is completely irrelevant to creating space for youth given that context.

Or is the complaint that Higgins can't be moved to create space on the roster that would already exist if not for Benning's acquisitions?

I just don't understand the complaints about Higgins here.

 

[ahmon]

Sorry, weren't you just commenting last thread that you were happier with Dorsett's performance as a 4th liner than Higgins' as a 2nd liner?

yes, Dorsett played well as a 4th liner last year, but he certainly became overpaid after Benning gave him the new contract.

Those 2 things can co-exist.

 

[Proto]

yes, Dorsett played well as a 4th liner last year, but he certainly became overpaid after Benning gave him the new contract.

Those 2 things can co-exist.

Dorsett received one minute less of ice time a game at 5v5 than Chris Higgins.

 

[ahmon]

Dorsett received one minute less of ice time a game at 5v5 than Chris Higgins.

And? can you elaborate?