The Flames and Matt Pfeffer?

[LetsGoFlames]

For those who don't know the name, Matt Pfeffer is an analytics consultant who was recently fired by the Montreal Canadiens. There are rumors it was due to him taking a hard stance against the Subban-Weber trade, though that is not official, as far as I know.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/analytics-hasnt-reached-maturity-in-the-nhl-yet-matt-pfeffer/

Analytics is an underappreciated field in the NHL, in my opinion. But it does seem to be gaining legitimacy and I wouldn't think one of the leaders in the field would cost us very much to add. Do you think it would be worth our while to give Matt Pfeffer an offer?

Note: I've heard no mention the Flames are even considering him, or any other analytics people. So this is not a rumor, just something that I think would be worth a shot for the cost, if it gives us any edge at all.

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[BigRangy]

The Flames already have a guy, and I keep hearing that they think he is the best in the business.

 

[Lunatik]

The Flames already have a guy, and I keep hearing that they think he is the best in the business.

yep, I have heard the same. It's Snow iirc

 

[LetsGoFlames]

I thought about adding that as a note as well. The fact that I don't know if we did or not. I've never heard anything about it though. I think the NHL is just catching on to the importance of these folks.

 

[Lunatik]

I thought about adding that as a note as well. The fact that I don't know if we did or not. I've never heard anything about it though. I think the NHL is just catching on to the importance of these folks.

Yeah, Chris Snow was actually hired under Feaster and he implemented the PUCKS system. He's regarded as one of the best in the league and Brian Burke who is not big on analytics has nothing but praise for Snow.

 

[1989]

yep, I have heard the same. It's Snow iirc

Yes, it's Chris Snow. For those who don't know (taken from calgaryflames.com):

Director of Hockey Analytics Chris Snow joined the Calgary Flames organization in 2011.

Chris Snow is in his fifth season with the Flames as the director of hockey analytics. In this role he is charged with all data collection, database development, and data-based analysis. Snow supports decision making across several aspects of the hockey operation, including Flames roster decisions, professional and amateur scouting, Flames game preparation, and player contract negotiations.

Prior to joining the Flames, Snow spent four seasons as director of hockey operations with the Minnesota Wild. Prior to entering the hockey business, Snow was a staff writer for the Boston Globe, where he worked as the Boston Red Sox beat writer. A graduate of Syracuse University, he has also worked for the Minneapolis Star Tribune as the Minnesota Wild beat writer.

Met him a few times; good guy, had a few chats here and there but I don't follow advanced analytics too much myself.

Don't know much about Pfeffer but I guess it would never be a bad thing to expand the analytics department, generally speaking, especially since it's still pretty new and somewhat unreliable/highly contextual at times.

 

[Lunatik]

I wouldn't touch Pfeffer personally if the rumors are true. His job is to provide analysis and not tell management what trades to make. It is one thing to express concern, it is another to get yourself fired over taking a hardline stance.

And since analytics are #3 for the Flames in how they evaluate players according to Burke (1. eyes, 2. character, 3. analytics), I'm not sure he would be a good fit.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Man, Jon Snow is doing well.

 

[Rangediddy]

As long as we still have cap space to sign Johnny, Bennett & Tkachuk, I'm open to bringing him in

 

[LetsGoFlames]

Yes, it's Chris Snow. For those who don't know (taken from calgaryflames.com):



Met him a few times; good guy, had a few chats here and there but I don't follow advanced analytics too much myself.

Don't know much about Pfeffer but I guess it would never be a bad thing to expand the analytics department, generally speaking, especially since it's still pretty new and somewhat unreliable/highly contextual at times.

Great response. Thank you very much.

 

[LetsGoFlames]

As long as we still have cap space to sign Johnny, Bennett & Tkachuk, I'm open to bringing him in

Guess I need to learn more about Mr. Snow, but if he doesn't object....

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I wouldn't touch Pfeffer personally if the rumors are true. His job is to provide analysis and not tell management what trades to make. It is one thing to express concern, it is another to get yourself fired over taking a hardline stance.

And since analytics are #3 for the Flames in how they evaluate players according to Burke (1. eyes, 2. character, 3. analytics), I'm not sure he would be a good fit.

Yeah, heaven forbid someone provide an actual opinion to management.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I wouldn't touch Pfeffer personally if the rumors are true. His job is to provide analysis and not tell management what trades to make. It is one thing to express concern, it is another to get yourself fired over taking a hardline stance.

And since analytics are #3 for the Flames in how they evaluate players according to Burke (1. eyes, 2. character, 3. analytics), I'm not sure he would be a good fit.

My understanding of it was that from an analytics perspective it was a bad swap for Montreal, and he vocalized that.

They also must have wanted his opinion on the topic because otherwise how would he have known those were the players involved in the potential deal?

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah, heaven forbid someone provide an actual opinion to management.

My understanding of it was that from an analytics perspective it was a bad swap for Montreal, and he vocalized that.

They also must have wanted his opinion on the topic because otherwise how would he have known those were the players involved in the potential deal?

You two seem to be missing a big part of what I said.

It is one thing to express concern, it is another to get yourself fired over taking a hardline stance.

Whether you agree with a deal or not, as a member of the organization you still have a responsibility to be a team player, remain professional and respect the authority and knowledge of your bosses.

 

[InfinityIggy]

You two seem to be missing a big part of what I said.



Whether you agree with a deal or not, as a member of the organization you still have a responsibility to be a team player, remain professional and respect the authority and knowledge of your bosses.

How do we know he took a hard line stance? Sounds like speculation.

 

[Lunatik]

How do we know he took a hard line stance? Sounds like speculation.

Because that is what sounds like when it was originally reported? The words impassioned and vehemence stand out.

A source told Sportsnet that Matt Pfeffer, who was hired as an analytics consultant at the beginning of the 2015-16 season, made an impassioned and elaborate presentation to management to dissuade them from following through on this trade.

Ignoring Pfeffer’s advice only served to reinforce the notion that Bergevin was following different criteria in his evaluation of both players, said the source, who also suggested Pfeffer’s vehemence on the matter might have ultimately cost him the job (he was told on Wednesday that his contract won’t be renewed). The Canadiens would not comment on why they aren’t renewing his contract, but they did say that they are looking into other analytics solutions.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

You could have the best "analytics guy" in the world but it doesn't matter if there is no organizational buy-in. You could have an HFboards Average Joe and have success if the buy-in is there. The buy-in needs to start at the very top down to the head coach and his staff otherwise it's just a bunch of numbers with no application.

Given how the organization has valued so highly people like David Jones, Brandon Bollig, Troy Brouwer, Kris Russell, and Deryk Engelland, it's probably reasonable to say there is not a ton of organizational buy-in here in Calgary the way there is in a franchise like Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay in these things.

 

[RedHot]

You could have the best "analytics guy" in the world but it doesn't matter if there is no organizational buy-in. You could have an HFboards Average Joe and have success if the buy-in is there. The buy-in needs to start at the very top down to the head coach and his staff otherwise it's just a bunch of numbers with no application.

Given how the organization has valued so highly people like David Jones, Brandon Bollig, Troy Brouwer, Kris Russell, and Deryk Engelland, it's probably reasonable to say there is not a ton of organizational buy-in here in Calgary the way there is in a franchise like Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay in these things.

They did sign Frolik though. And we'll see if Gulatzan's coaching is more possession based. Which I sincerely hope it is.