The East vs The West (2015-16)

[Aerrol]

So, after seeing some comments after last night's game (yet again), that the East is a joke and so we should discount a huge character win, I figured we need a place to focus our talk on the Conferences instead of having it litter every damn thread where we play an Eastern team.

Some of you probably are already aware that I don't buy very much into the idea of "WEST GOOD EAST BAD". It's far too simplistic, and even in terms of relative strength, team wise, I don't think it's true. So let's start this discussion with a look at the league-wide standings today:

1. Montreal (east)
2. Dallas (west)
3. Nashville (west)
4. St. Louis (west)
5. NY Rangers (east)
6. NY Islanders (east)
7. Minnesota (west)
8. Winnipeg (west)
9. Washington (east)
10. LA (west)
11. Chicago (west)
12. Pittsburgh (east)
13. Vancouver (west)
14. Tampa (east)
15. Florida (east)
16. Arizona (west)
17. New Jersey (east)
18. San Jose (west)
19. Philadelphia (east)
20. Ottawa (east)
21. Boston (east)
22. Detroit (west)
23. Carolina (east)
24. Edmonton (west)
25. Colorado (west)
26. Buffalo (east)
27. Calgary (west)
28. Toronto (east)
29. Columbus (east)
30. Anaheim (west)
​

So as of today, out of the top 15 teams, 7/15 (or as close to half as possible), are Eastern Conference teams. Doesn't seem like the West is really that much stronger to me.

Then let's look at some of the bizarro stories (IMO): Anaheim is way too low, Arizona and New Jersey way too high. If they trend back the way I expect them to (and I think most people do), that puts say... Anaheim in the top 15 along with one of San Jose, Philly, or Ottawa. If I had to bet, I'd pick San Jose, so that swings things slightly more in the West's favour. Which is how I see it right now - the West is still slightly better than the East, but it's not a very large gap.

Now let's look at the basket case teams of today: Arizona (unless they continue their miracle run, which I doubt), New Jersey (same as Arizona), Buffalo, Toronto, Columbus, Anaheim (for now), Calgary, Us, Carolina and arguably Boston and Colorado, depending on how they do this year. Of these teams which are fairly commonly expected to end quite poorly this year, you have: 5 Western Teams and 6 Eastern Teams. Again, the East looks slightly weaker.

No matter which way I cut it, I don't see this supposed 'massive' superiority of the West. I see different play styles. Would the Oilers do better in the East? I think so. But that's because they play a more wide-open, 'Eastern-style' game. Not because the conference is a cake-walk. If you think that grinding hockey is clearly superior... I'm going to have to disagree both from a fan perspective (it makes me want to go to bed), and from a results perspective: who were in the Stanley Cup Final last year, hmm?

Regardless, beat this horse to death here, please :. Save our other threads.

Click to read more...

 

[CornKicker]

its obvious the high east teams are high because they get to pound the weak east teams more often.

Oilers in west beat the best team in the east Montreal

facts are facts broham

 

[Aerchon]

There is a bit more parity this year than previous. First time in along time the east has gained ground on the west IMO.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

It is more even this year than the last few.

East has 4 teams with winning records vs West. West has 5 vs East. Saying that though, there are more hard teams to play against in the west.

Dallas, SJS, LA, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Chicago, Nashville, St. Louis, Wild. That is 9 playoff caliber teams with CGY and ANA to having **** the bed this badly and unexpectedly.

East has WSH, NYR, MTL, BOS and NYI. The rest are mediocre at best.

The strongest in the East is on par or close to the strongest in the West...however once you get past the top couple of teams the quality of team dramatically drops off.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

East against West: 27-25-6

West against East: 31-20-7

West is better so far, but it's not a huge difference.

 

[Aerrol]

its obvious the high east teams are high because they get to pound the weak east teams more often.

Oilers in west beat the best team in the east Montreal

facts are facts broham

I never know when you're serious or not...

That said, here are some East team records vs the West:

Mtl: 1-2
Tampa: 1-3-2
Florida: 2-2
Ottawa: 1-1-1
Boston: 3-1
Detroit: 1-1-1
Toronto: 0-1
Rangers: 4-1
Islanders: 5-1
Pens: 1-3
Jersey: 1-2-1
Philly: 1-1
Carolina: 1-3
Columbus: 1-2

Too small sample sizes to mean much yet, but hardly a tale of being unable to beat the west . Rangers and Islanders in particular seem to be kicking our ass.

 

[Aerrol]

East against West: 27-25-6

West against East: 31-20-7

West is better so far, but it's not a huge difference.

Where did you pull these stats out of? I couldn't find an easy source.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

Where did you pull these stats out of? I couldn't find an easy source.

Probably from the same as your above post. I just added them up

 

[Aerrol]

Probably from the same as your above post. I just added them up

ah, fair enough!

It is more even this year than the last few.

East has 4 teams with winning records vs West. West has 5 vs East. Saying that though, there are more hard teams to play against in the west.

Dallas, SJS, LA, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Chicago, Nashville, St. Louis, Wild. That is 9 playoff caliber teams with CGY and ANA to having **** the bed this badly and unexpectedly.

East has WSH, NYR, MTL, BOS and NYI. The rest are mediocre at best.

The strongest in the East is on par or close to the strongest in the West...however once you get past the top couple of teams the quality of team dramatically drops off.

Uuhhh...yeah, no. Pittsburgh is having some issues but they're definitely better than they're playing and I expect them to start firing up as the season goes, and Boston is playing above their heads in my opinion. Then you've gone and missed the runners up to the Stanley Cup last year, the Tampa Bay Lightning... Florida is also a good team that seems to be unable to avoid injuries to their top players, and one of Philly/Ottawa/Detroit is definitely going to come out stronger than last year.

So that leaves me: Washington, Tampa, NYR, NYI, Mtl, Pitt, Florida, and say Detroit.

That comes to 8 vs your list of 9 strong teams in the West. Again, not a huge gap.

 

[SullivanT]

Probably from the same as your above post. I just added them up

Not adding!!!! He said an easy source. Haha jk lol

 

[Replacement*]

I never know when you're serious or not...

That said, here are some East team records vs the West:

Mtl: 1-2
Tampa: 1-3-2
Florida: 2-2
Ottawa: 1-1-1
Boston: 3-1
Detroit: 1-1-1
Toronto: 0-1
Rangers: 4-1
Islanders: 5-1
Pens: 1-3
Jersey: 1-2-1
Philly: 1-1
Carolina: 1-3
Columbus: 1-2

Too small sample sizes to mean much yet, but hardly a tale of being unable to beat the west . Rangers and Islanders in particular seem to be kicking our ass.

Take out the Islanders/Rangers results which have almost all been home games and its a hurting picture already for the EC.

lol that Tampa has lost 5GP to WC teams already. They lost to Colorado last night while the Habs lost to Edmonton. Two of the worst WC clubs beating the two supposed best EC clubs in one night.

 

[Senor Catface]

I completely agree. It would be really nice if every single game against the east didn't result in white noise about how "awful" the east is by a handful of posters.

 

[chance]

Cup winners over the last decade sums it up.

 

[Evincar]

its obvious the high east teams are high because they get to pound the weak east teams more often.

Oilers in west beat the best team in the east Montreal

facts are facts broham

What happens if the Coyotes finish ahead of the Oilers this year? Can you still use the "West is so tough, the Oilers would make playoffs in the East" excuse?

 

[s7ark]

Where did you pull these stats out of? I couldn't find an easy source.

Here is the Vs East record
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=xve#&navid=nav-stn-east

Here is the Vs West record
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20152016&type=XVW

The west is definitely better than the east. But the eastern games are generally much more entertaining to watch.

 

[Tarus]

Here is the Vs East record
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=xve#&navid=nav-stn-east

Here is the Vs West record
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20152016&type=XVW

The west is definitely better than the east. But the eastern games are generally much more entertaining to watch.

Yeah, the east is generally more entertaining. A lot of that has to do with the fact they play a significantly more open game out there, most games look like they are being played on olympic sized rinks in comparison to western games.

 

[Aerrol]

Take out the Islanders/Rangers results which have almost all been home games and its a hurting picture already for the EC.

lol that Tampa has lost 5GP to WC teams already. They lost to Colorado last night while the Habs lost to Edmonton. Two of the worst WC clubs beating the two supposed best EC clubs in one night.

Here's the West vs the East:

Dallas 5-1
Nashville 4-1-1
St Louis 1-1-1
Minnesota 1-0
Winnipeg 3-1-1
Chicago 5-3
Colorado 1-3-1
LA 1-0
Van 1-1-1
Arizona 3-3-1
San Jose 3-2
Edmonton 2-1
Calgary 1-3-1
Anaheim 0-0-0

Looks to me like if you take out Dallas and Nashville, it's not exactly an inspiring record either. Go figure.

And s7ark, as was suggested I was hoping there was an easy aggregate number somewhere that I didn't have to add up!

 

[BlowbyBlow]

So, after seeing some comments after last night's game (yet again), that the East is a joke and so we should discount a huge character win, I figured we need a place to focus our talk on the Conferences instead of having it litter every damn thread where we play an Eastern team.

Some of you probably are already aware that I don't buy very much into the idea of "WEST GOOD EAST BAD". It's far too simplistic, and even in terms of relative strength, team wise, I don't think it's true. So let's start this discussion with a look at the league-wide standings today:

1. Montreal (east)
2. Dallas (west)
3. Nashville (west)
4. St. Louis (west)
5. NY Rangers (east)
6. NY Islanders (east)
7. Minnesota (west)
8. Winnipeg (west)
9. Washington (east)
10. LA (west)
11. Chicago (west)
12. Pittsburgh (east)
13. Vancouver (west)
14. Tampa (east)
15. Florida (east)
16. Arizona (west)
17. New Jersey (east)
18. San Jose (west)
19. Philadelphia (east)
20. Ottawa (east)
21. Boston (east)
22. Detroit (west)
23. Carolina (east)
24. Edmonton (west)
25. Colorado (west)
26. Buffalo (east)
27. Calgary (west)
28. Toronto (east)
29. Columbus (east)
30. Anaheim (west)
​

So as of today, out of the top 15 teams, 7/15 (or as close to half as possible), are Eastern Conference teams. Doesn't seem like the West is really that much stronger to me.

Then let's look at some of the bizarro stories (IMO): Anaheim is way too low, Arizona and New Jersey way too high. If they trend back the way I expect them to (and I think most people do), that puts say... Anaheim in the top 15 along with one of San Jose, Philly, or Ottawa. If I had to bet, I'd pick San Jose, so that swings things slightly more in the West's favour. Which is how I see it right now - the West is still slightly better than the East, but it's not a very large gap.

Now let's look at the basket case teams of today: Arizona (unless they continue their miracle run, which I doubt), New Jersey (same as Arizona), Buffalo, Toronto, Columbus, Anaheim (for now), Calgary, Us, Carolina and arguably Boston and Colorado, depending on how they do this year. Of these teams which are fairly commonly expected to end quite poorly this year, you have: 5 Western Teams and 6 Eastern Teams. Again, the East looks slightly weaker.

No matter which way I cut it, I don't see this supposed 'massive' superiority of the West. I see different play styles. Would the Oilers do better in the East? I think so. But that's because they play a more wide-open, 'Eastern-style' game. Not because the conference is a cake-walk. If you think that grinding hockey is clearly superior... I'm going to have to disagree both from a fan perspective (it makes me want to go to bed), and from a results perspective: who were in the Stanley Cup Final last year, hmm?

Regardless, beat this horse to death here, please :. Save our other threads.

I am going to end this argument with the simple answer (you can read it all or scroll to the bottom)

The problem with anyone defending either side is that each team only plays the other once or in other cases twice. To many factors, because partly as anyone in anyone in sports will say its hard to adjust and make a game plan by just scouting games, and by video analysis. Its until you face someone you understand how to attack/approach, and you need to play them more often then once/twice a year.

Saying that I think if you do a analysis and come to a conclusion you have to look at a teams results against a team over a 5 year period. It gives enough games and balances itself out.

Winning percentage throughout the whole league is never a great indicator cause you can have teams that are good but they play against a lot of under 500 teams.

I'm the hugest New England Patriots fan but there winning percentage is indicative of the teams they play, and so I think they can only be judged when they play higher quality teams

What makes a higher quality team: (A) I have never thought much of winning percentage think of the San Francisco Giants/Royals last year two wild card teams (MLB) NYG (NFL) made it as a wild card, and others have followed suit. The Kings won the cup as a 8th seed, then a 6th.

I don't even think goal scoring matters Stamkos, Ovechkin, even Crosby are great but time and time you look at the cup runs and I love what both L.A. and Chicago have to offer and were no match.

Goaltending is individual and the two best may be out east.

The biggest difference is defense the defenseman in the west are way better, and its not even an argument.


I searched for this answer for years. When Pittsburgh won there goaltender stood on his head, Carolina/Tampa played lesser quality teams in years considered anomalies, that leaves Boston who played a Vancouver d-core that got beat down as the series went on. Pittsburgh had a goalie stand on his head (could even argue you that with Carolina)

I watched Chara when the Blackhawks won, and he ended up being less of a factor. Look at how any d-man from NYR or NJ stacked up against L.A., Tampa had the best d of the group and even they were no match for Chicago. When i think of Subban, Karlsson vs alot of the high d-man out west Doughty, Pietrelangelo, Weber its no comparison either. Look at the d-core Tampa needed to get to the finals, look at what Chicago needed.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I think it's a lot more even now.

Teams like Washington, Brooklyn, Florida, and Tampa have improved a lot over the past couple years.

They still don't have to deal with the grind of st Louis, minnesota, la, and nashville.

Even what I'd call bubble teams in the west are extremely good.

I'd say it's fairly even but even if you have only a couple more bad teams that's 10-20 points.