The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[Dekes For Days]

So you think because you are never wrong, everyone who is right must think like you?
He didn't sign a different contract because he didn't want to sign a different contract.

What are you even talking about? First you made false claims about what the offer sheet compensation amounts were, because you were looking at 2015 numbers. Then that was proven wrong, and you started making false claims that any offer sheet would have resulted in four 1st round picks (which would have still been bad for the Leafs anyway).

In response, I showed you a contract that was worse for the Leafs and better for the player than the one he ended up signing with us (10.55m x 5 years), that would have been under the four 1st threshold, and would have really screwed the Leafs. That's before we even get into the difficulties that in-season signings would have presented.

He didn't sign a different contract because he signed the contract he did with us. You have no idea what contracts he was willing to sign if the contract from us wasn't on the table.

 

[francis246]

I’m curious to know how you arrived at that assumption because it sure didn’t show on the ice

On Ice Performance or a lapse in play does not equate to not working hard in the gym. Some of the hardest workers in pro sports are the players who SUCK. Those 3rd and 4th liners probably work harder than anyone in the league. Yet their productivity on the ice doesn't match up to the extra work they put in. There are so many factors that play apart into performance such as natural skill level, mental state and of course conditioning which is improved by the work you do off the ice and in the off-season. But natural skill plays a huge role probably 75%.

 

[Bluelines]

I mean that's cherry picking stats pretty hard, there playoff production isn't even comparable.
Mackinnon has never been under 1ppg in the playoffs in his career and his worst playoffs as far as total points goes is the same (6pts) as Matthews best playoffs.

Last 2 playoffs:
Mackinnon - 25GP, 17G, 23A, 40Pts
Matthews - 12GP, 3G, 8A, 11Pts

Playoff careers:
Mackinnon - 50GP, 28G, 41A, 69Pts
Matthews - 32GP, 13G, 11A, 24Pts

Sure he's produced a lot and that = how many Stanley Cups? Now if someone said do what Kucherov does, I might agree. I know the tweet was tongue in cheek but MacKinnon while an incredible player who has achieved individual success but no team success, is in no different of a spot than our incredible player who has achieved individual success but no team success.

 

[VanW27]

Sure he's produced a lot and that = how many Stanley Cups? Now if someone said do what Kucherov does, I might agree. I know the tweet was tongue in cheek but MacKinnon while an incredible player who has achieved individual success but no team success, is in no different of a spot than our incredible player who has achieved individual success but no team success.

The Avs have some series wins a least. If Matthews produced like Mackinnon the Leafs would too.

 

[Bluelines]

The Avs have some series wins a least. If Matthews produced like Mackinnon the Leafs would too.

If anyone produced like MacKinnon we might have some series wins. Often players are a product of their environment. Coaching, systems and depth of a team can have a large effect on an individual players performance. 1st round loss or 3rd round loss , IMO there is no difference, maybe for some fans but not for me. In this post, for me, there are no participation ribbons, just the cup at the end that matters.

 

[kb]

It's fascinating that there are some that actually believe that these Players don't want to win or put in the off season work. (maybe they don't really believe that and are just trolling, hopefully that's the case.)

IMO, that McKinnon news paints him in a poor light. I had no idea he was like that, could be what's holding such a good team back.

Yeah, I didn't want to say this with all the universal praise for his "leadership"...which seems to be more based in pettiness and ego, but.....bang on.

 

[ToneDog]

I didnt like last offseasons moves and was vocally against Simmonds (2x) and Thornton

We could not have signed both Larsson and Hall but we could have signed either on their own.

We also couldve signed Hyman but it wouldnt have been a smart move.

Dont sign Ritchie and trade Kerfoot and we have enough cap space for Hall at 6, the caveat being Kerfoot's replacement would need to be league minimum.

In theory we could have signed any UFA but we did not. Until something changes capwise we won't be in on many of the top UFAs IMO. We were lucky to get Brodie for $5m last year. This year he probably gets much more and most likely goes elsewhere.

 

[egd27]

Mackinnon seems pretty full of himself as well by reading the actual transcript. Zadorov seemed pretty sick of his act.

I don't really see the disparity between the two groups you described honestly. One is a jerk (Mackinnon), the other is more introverted (Marner).

All those deep cup runs for Colorado lately make it worth putting up with though. Oh wait...

You must have hated the facial hair policy.

 

[Racer88]

On Ice Performance or a lapse in play does not equate to not working hard in the gym. Some of the hardest workers in pro sports are the players who SUCK. Those 3rd and 4th liners probably work harder than anyone in the league. Yet their productivity on the ice doesn't match up to the extra work they put in. There are so many factors that play apart into performance such as natural skill level, mental state and of course conditioning which is improved by the work you do off the ice and in the off-season. But natural skill plays a huge role probably 75%.

All this may be true but naturally talented players do benefit from working hard in the off season as they get stronger, faster or improve a certain skill like shooting……..Marner has done none of that the last few years…….in fact the argument could be made that he has regressed in the playoffs when we all know the games get harder and less tightly officiated.
Both of those things require more strength and commitment. Marner has shown none of the above the last few years

just think if Marner with his natural skill played as hard as Gallagher or Marchand

 

[zeke]

MacKinnon has never been out of the 2nd round, even though apparently he has a great GM who is a cap genius who has given him the deepest and most talented team in the league to play behind him. He's 26 this year.

 

[IPS]

MacKinnon has never been out of the 2nd round, even though apparently he has a great GM who is a cap genius who has given him the deepest and most talented team in the league to play behind him. He's 26 this year.

It's his fault his team shit the bed???

 

[francis246]

All this may be true but naturally talented players do benefit from working hard in the off season as they get stronger, faster or improve a certain skill like shooting……..Marner has done none of that the last few years…….in fact the argument could be made that he has regressed in the playoffs when we all know the games get harder and less tightly officiated.
Both of those things require more strength and commitment. Marner has shown none of the above the last few years

just think if Marner with his natural skill played as hard as Gallagher or Marchand

You’re talking out of your ass, Marner has grown in body mass which proves he has been working out. Also last off-season there was multiple articles that outlined his workout routine and what he was doing in the off-season. It’s been clearly outlined that he does put in the work. If you want to be upset about how he performed in the playoffs that’s cool. But it has no correlation to his off-season habits/workouts because whatever he did in the off-season helped him have a fantastic regular season: so your point is moot end of story.

no one was complaining or questioning his off-season training when the leafs were dominating all season.

playoff performance comes down to mental ability and the way the other teams play you. Let’s give Montreal some credit, they completely frustrated Marner and Matthews, this is more on good coaching by the habs and below average coaching by Keefe. Instead of getting Marner and Matthews away from Danault on home ice he kept putting them back out there. Makes no sense. Marner is fine, he trains hard, he’s allowed to post whatever he wants on socials, stop being a hater. He got engaged good for him he’s allowed to be happy in life

 

[francis246]

MacKinnon has never been out of the 2nd round, even though apparently he has a great GM who is a cap genius who has given him the deepest and most talented team in the league to play behind him. He's 26 this year.

it’s easy to be a cap genius when almost a quarter of the roster is on ELC’s or on their second contract

 

[mclaren55]

MacKinnon has never been out of the 2nd round, even though apparently he has a great GM who is a cap genius who has given him the deepest and most talented team in the league to play behind him. He's 26 this year.

Are you really going to try and throw shade at MacKinnon because his team “hasn’t gotten out of the second round”?

I wish our stars handled themselves like him, maybe if they did we would get out of the first round.

Pretty sure you could add both Marners and Matthews playoff totals together and Mackinnons would be equal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

just think if Marner with his natural skill played as hard as Gallagher

Yeah, then he could have *checks notes* 18 points in his last 49 playoff games. Wait...

 

[IPS]

Are you really going to try and throw shade at MacKinnon because his team “hasn’t gotten out of the second round”?

I wish our stars handled themselves like him, maybe if they did we would get out of the first round.

Pretty sure you could add both Marners and Matthews playoff totals together and Mackinnons would be equal.

When it comes to the playoffs Mackinnon has been several tiers ahead of both Matthews and Marner.

Beyond pathetic trying to throw shade at him.

 

[VanW27]

Are you really going to try and throw shade at MacKinnon because his team “hasn’t gotten out of the second round”?

I wish our stars handled themselves like him, maybe if they did we would get out of the first round.

Pretty sure you could add both Marners and Matthews playoff totals together and Mackinnons would be equal.

Playoff careers:
Mackinnon - 50GP, 28G, 41A, 69Pts
Matthews/Marner Combined - 64GP, 18G, 31A, 49Pts

Even combined Mackinnon blows them out of the water, 10 more goals and 20 more points in 14 fewer games (cumulative combined games for Matthews/Marner)

 

[Bomber0104]

Playoff careers:
Mackinnon - 50GP, 28G, 41A, 69Pts
Matthews/Marner Combined - 64GP, 18G, 31A, 49Pts

Even combined Mackinnon blows them out of the water, 10 more goals and 20 more points in 14 fewer games (cumulative combined games for Matthews/Marner)

Yeah that's cool, but what was their Expected Goals / 60 minutes in 5-on-5 situations adjusted for home ice on a partly cloudy day?

I don't think we can make any definitive conclusions without knowing that...

 

[Bluelines]

Yeah that's cool, but what was their Expected Goals / 60 minutes in 5-on-5 situations adjusted for home ice on a partly cloudy day?

I don't think we can make any definitive conclusions without knowing that...

Did you want to know before or after his morning poo?

 

[Bomber0104]

Did you want to know before or after his morning poo?

Before.

We need to know how these guys react under intense pressure.

 

[zeke]

Are you really going to try and throw shade at MacKinnon because his team “hasn’t gotten out of the second round”?

why are only leafs allowed to be criticised for not winning playoffs rounds?

 

[Bluelines]

Before.

We need to know how these guys react under intense pressure.

The answer is: Purple

 

[Bluelines]

why are only leafs allowed to be criticised for not winning playoffs rounds?

You kinda have a point...

 

[IPS]

why are only leafs allowed to be criticised for not winning playoffs rounds?

Because they haven't won a playoff series?!

 

[Mess]

I'm most interested to see if Marner's game evolves now with the new roster of more bigger physical players surrounding him and perhaps even flanking him if Nick Ritchie is his new linemate.

Brayden Point often a comparable used for Marner has scored 14 goals in back to back playoffs by playing hard and going into the danger areas and accepting the physical abuse it takes to be successful in the playoffs .. So its possible for smaller skilled player to excel in tight checking, hard hitting, physically imposing playoff style hockey.