The Crosby vs Ovechkin rivalry

[Zuluss]

What about Tavares, Perry, or Seguin who you also mentioned as better goalscorers than Crosby?

The age argument doesn't really fly anymore.

What about Malkin? you said he was better, yet he has worse stats only being 1 year older

Perry's top10 finishes in goals: 1, 2, 6, 9, 10
Crosby's top10 finishes in goals: 1, 7, 7
Perry is kind of a late bloomer, his first two or even three seasons were nothing to write home about, and his goal-scoring really took off when he was 25. Still, in the last six seasons he accomplished more goal-scoring-wise than Crosby in his whole career.

Tavares and Seguin have three top10 finishes, just like Crosby (3, 4, 10 and 5, 5, 10). So far, that's less impressive than Crosby's goal-scoring resume, but they are young yet and their top10 finishes happened in the past 3-4 years. I'd say give them time, they may overtake Crosby as goal-scorers if they add 2-3 top10 finishes and he does not add any. Or they may not.

Malkin is really close to Crosby in career ppg, the difference between them pro-rates to like 2 goals per 82-game season. What speaks in Malkin's favor are his two big seasons (50 goals in 11/12 and 47 goals in 08/09) and the simple eye-test (Malkin has a better shot, is better on a breakaway and has more ways to score, while Crosby seems to only score while standing in front of the net).

 

[Dacks]

Perry's top10 finishes in goals: 1, 2, 6, 9, 10
Crosby's top10 finishes in goals: 1, 7, 7
Perry is kind of a late bloomer, his first two or even three seasons were nothing to write home about, and his goal-scoring really took off when he was 25. Still, in the last six seasons he accomplished more goal-scoring-wise than Crosby in his whole career.

Tavares and Seguin have three top10 finishes, just like Crosby (3, 4, 10 and 5, 5, 10). So far, that's less impressive than Crosby's goal-scoring resume, but they are young yet and their top10 finishes happened in the past 3-4 years. I'd say give them time, they may overtake Crosby as goal-scorers if they add 2-3 top10 finishes and he does not add any. Or they may not.

Malkin is really close to Crosby in career ppg, the difference between them pro-rates to like 2 goals per 82-game season. What speaks in Malkin's favor are his two big seasons (50 goals in 11/12 and 47 goals in 08/09) and the simple eye-test (Malkin has a better shot, is better on a breakaway and has more ways to score, while Crosby seems to only score while standing in front of the net).

The thing is, when looking at a career, need to look at the whole picture, not just the peaks. Crosby's just been so consistent.

And goals are goals, man. Doesn't matter how nice they look. That's like, sports 101.

 

[Plural]

The thing is, when looking at a career, need to look at the whole picture, not just the peaks. Crosby's just been so consistent.

It's an interesting discussion for sure. What is more important when trying to evaluate which player is better at goal-scoring (for example)? Is it the guy who's consistently among the top-30, but rarely in the top-5/10? Or is it the guy who spends half his seasons as the top-5/10 but half his seasons below top-30?

Crosby is consistent as they come and he does have the peak (Crosby was arguably the best goal-scorer in the world one season, although I'd still nod Ovechkin above him). But he kind of lacks the seasons as premier goal-scorer compared to Heatley (for example).

In the end, it probably comes down to personal preference and there's nothing wrong picking Crosby above Perry as a goal-scorer. I'd probably side with Perry, but I'm willing to revisit the idea every once in a while.

From this "generation" I'd consider Kovalchuk, Stamkos and Ovechkin as undeniably better than Crosby. I'm inclined to slot Heatley in to that category too, since his time on the top was almost three times that of Crosby's. but after those 3 (4), one could make argument for Crosby just as easily as anyone else.

 

[Zuluss]

The thing is, when looking at a career, need to look at the whole picture, not just the peaks. Crosby's just been so consistent.

And goals are goals, man. Doesn't matter how nice they look. That's like, sports 101.

Peaks and the eye-test are good enough as tie-breakers for me.
One should not take them too far, but if we are talking about players with similar career gpg at the same age and similar top10 finishes, turning to those seems fair.

 

[Zuluss]

What about the World Cup? Crosby was miles and way ahead of Ovechkin it's not even fair to compare them. Ovechkin was quite invisible the whole tournament. He scored that one goal against Sweden (and almost tied the game by himself in the last few seconds) but other than that? I would just expect him to produce more, when he's an NHL 50-goalscorer, and when he played Canada, he had some hits, but almost didn't have even a shot on goal (!), and I don't think the games in group stage were much different.

Crosby was the MVP of the tournament, so. There's no comparison really. And it seems like it's the same case over and over, from the 2010 olympics, to the Sochi olympics, to the World Cup now (or even the World Championships in 2015). Some people will say that Crosby plays for Canada and even Ovi would look good there. Maybe. But Russia plays different teams too. And in those games against Sweden, Finland, or other teams, Ovechkin is not the dominant force he should be really. I don't know, maybe I'm too harsh on him, he's definitely had some good moments in international tournaments, but when playing for Russia at olympics (or this year's world cup) he's a different Ovechkin it seems. The point is, Crosby is definitely better on international stage, too.

What about it? It was the first time in a decade that Crosby was not 4th-best or 5th-best on Team Canada. Good for him.

Ovechkin was not too bad in the World Cup either: in addition to almost tying the 0-2 game vs. Sweden single-handedly in the last minute, his line hemmed in Team NA a few times in the beginning of the 2nd period, and the pressure eventually led to Team NA breakdown in this game (later Ovechkin also found his way on the score sheet). In the game against Finland, Ovechkin created the first goal by drawing both defensemen to himself and then finding Tarasenko with a pass, and that goal ended up as a gwg.

Granted, Crosby was significantly better than Ovechkin in the World Cup - Crosby essentially got even for this year WSH-PIT series, in which Ovechkin was significantly better than him.

As for the international individual resume overall, both have been rather underwhelming most of the time. Ovechkin has a longer international record, which looks worse on average, because he plays at the Worlds even if he is tired/injured and/or the team sucks. Expectedly, with a longer record come more disastrous tournaments and more good tournaments.

 

[daver]

Benn/Seguin could have taken Crosby's place in the WCOH tournament and they still would've won if #87 never played a second this tournament. That's how deep Canada is.

What does this have to do with Crosby vastly outplaying OV in the tournament?