Speculation: The coaching search continues

[BigRig4]

I suspect well find out Green's (potential) hiring was in part because he agreed to put Gruden on the bench with him. Likely why we hired someone who didn't have the leverage to make that call. Just speculating though.

 

[flyingfingers]

This is a fun analysis from a Canucks fan on Reddit:

I really need to start saving this so I can repost it whenever someone asks the question, because I have lot of legitimate criticisms of Green but half the time I forget to list them all.

1. We turtle once we have the lead. Last night, we were playing some good hockey. We were winning possession-wise and once we had the lead we stopped playing dynamic, started collapsing and trying to defend, which we are terrible at. When it was 2-2 suddenly we started to forecheck more aggressively and stopped playing Green's ultra-passive way. It's very surprising to me that we are doing something well that is bringing us success, and the players are told to change it.
2. The ultra-passive way. Our changeup from defending last season to now seems to be collapse even harder with less pressure on the opposing team. We are getting one forward applying pressure instead of two. This makes it even easier for the opposition to control the puck. Just look at our possession metrics against Buffalo, a team that is comprised almost entirely of guys that would not make the roster on most other NHL teams.
3. New and unimproved penalty kill. Yes we are missing Motte & Sutter, but this is essentially an extension of the last two points. Our defenders don't apply any pressure, which would be fine if other teams played the PP like us but they don't, because that would be stupid. Which brings me to...
4. Complete and utter lack of movement on PP1. This has been a thorn in my side for literal years now. Our players stand in a diamond around the outside with Bo in the middle, and lazily pass the puck back and forth. I would have killed to defend against a powerplay this slow when I was still playing hockey that mattered. It's so, so easy to defend against a puck that isn't moving. We have to pass way faster and move our feet when we have the puck to force the defenders to adjust. If you don't move the defenders don't either, which means no seams are opening up. This is shit that has gone on for years and it boggles my mind because even AAA teams know that puck movement is essential.
5. Unnecessary line juggling. Most of us probably agree that we got goalied in Detroit, which begs the question: why mess with a lineup that was bringing us success everywhere but the scoresheet? We're four games in and guys have barely had a chance to play together on structured lines yet, and now you're making huge shuffles like Miller to 3C and swapping in our bottom pairing from the bench. I can understand wanting to get your 7/8 D in a game, but a lot of the other line juggling, especially this early, works against a team that is on the road and can't focus on practising and gelling.
6. Killing creativity. Our best players aren't free to do what they do best. With the exceptionally rigid structure of zone entries and O-zone play where players are anchored to specific sub-areas of the zone completely annihilates the ability of our top players to make top plays. It is predictable as all hell, and predictable forwards are the easiest to defend against. This was actually a strength of Green when he first started - the rigid structure is exactly what you need when you have a roster full of plugs as it takes the thinking out of the game. For the love of god though, when Elias god damn Pettersson is completely invisible all night long because he's just in areas that are irrelevant to the play, give him more leash. The systems are choking out our stars.
7. In-game Confusion. Our lines don't know who is going on for who, partially because of Travis "Vitamix" Green's constant line blending, partially because our special teams sure are special. You see multiple guys on the bench standing to go on when they aren't up. Either Buffalo or Detroit had someone hop over the boards only to immediately hop back on the bench when another guy went too. This happens nearly every game, and it's part of the reason we get so many too many men penalties
8. Game management, or lack thereof. How many timeouts have you seen Green call to calm his team down and re-center them on the goals of what they are trying to accomplish? (I know he did yesterday at least, which is good) How many times have we allowed a few quick ones, only for the same players to head out and do the exact same things?

I'm sure there's more, but like I said, I tend to forget in the spur of the moment.

The sad thing is I defended Green for years, and I thought he was able to squeeze blood from a stone when we were a much worse team. The main issue I have is that our roster is better than its been in nearly a decade, but we are playing worse and he hasn't adapted to the new tools he's been given. Offseason and training camp is plenty long enough to develop new systems, but he shockingly seems to have doubled down on his passive playstyle and it is driving me absolutely f***ing ballistic.

TL;DR: long time defender, first time hater for what I consider several legitimate hockey-based reasons.

 

[BondraTime]

Huh? Babcock took a grinding Anaheim team to the Stanley Cup finals. He got the Leafs to the playoffs in his 2nd year with a rookie Matthews. He's got a ton of warts as a human being, but he absolutely made a difference for every team he's ever coached.

18 years as a head coach at the NHL and AHL levels. 16 playoff appearances. Travis Green, in comparison, 3/9 as a professional coach.

So many executives nowadays want to cosplay being a banker and talk about how "wins and losses aren't everything, you have to look beyond that". Well sometimes, wins and losses do in fact tell the story.

Green would be a bad hire. He's proven to be a below average coach. And to boot, he's not well liked by his former players or teammates. At least DJ Smith was a good guy.

Yes, he coached a team that had the best goaltending in playoffs history while scoring the least goals in playoffs history to the cup finals with 44 goals in 21 games and then got to coach a team with multiple hall of famers to many playoff appearances and Cups. Giguire is the only one responsible for Anaheim, .950 is absolutely ridiculous over a full playoffs.

Then went to Toronto and never advanced passed the first round until his untimely firing in his 5th season, with fans calling for him to be fired even though he was the exact same coach. He got to coach great, hall of fame teams and catch lightning in a bottle with the best goaltending in NHL history, that made him.

He was a good coach, like the dozens of others there are. Substitue them out and swap their teams and you're not going to see much of a difference.

 

[Micklebot]

You could very well be right. Difficult to say with no inside knowledge.

I don't expect we're at the top of the list of ideal coaching destinations.

Still I'd expect there should be better options than Green.

Green was a pretty hot commodity when he was hired by Vancouver, and the team showed steady progress his first 3 years while transitioning from being the Sedins team to Pettersson and Hughes' team.

It seems like Julien is willing and wanting to sign here, if we end up with Green it's likely because Staios thinks more highly of him that those around here do.

I'm not thrilled with the potential hire, but I also won't be rushing to judge it since as fans we don't really have a lot of visibility. At best we can look to end results and how player he coached viewed him, but I haven't seen much on Green.

 

[Boud]

I'm naturally dissapointed to see another coach who's had very little success be on top of the list but it seems to make a lot of sense based on what this team needs. It's a bit frustrating because this team has been through so many coaches and it seems like we never find the winning recipe behind the bench and I'm not convinced he's that guy.

That said Green is a guy who expects his players to play fast and hard. He holds guys accountable whoever they may be and there's consequences if guys don't play well. He's played in the league and he's apparently fair with players as well. I don't know about the details of the game but this is what I've seen based on a few guys talking about him (Sedin/ Shane O'Brien/ Upshall). Seems like players like him.

Evason fits that motto as well. Expects guys to play hard and with structure. NHL experience.

Whoever it may be I just hope the players take the coach seriously and I hope the coach is able to get some much needed mojo to his players. Berube would've really been the choice here. He has all those qualities and he's won the cup. Type of guy who commands respects and no one can say anything to him since he's already proved to have what it takes.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This new thought that coaches make no difference is very wild

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Green is probably surprised he even got a second interview. Most coaches with that kind of resume usually build themselves back up by going back to the AHL or becoming NHL assistants. This guy just jumps into another head coach position?

 

[ottawagm]

Is Staios looking for rooking coach for the same reason Dorion did? No upward pressure?

Maybe all the other coaches are looking to win today while our management team thinks we're many years away?

Or maybe this is all a ploy to get our actual candidate to accept the offer before other positions open up.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I suspect well find out Green's (potential) hiring was in part because he agreed to put Gruden on the bench with him. Likely why we hired someone who didn't have the leverage to make that call. Just speculating though.

I’d love Gruden as an assistant, but didn’t Gruden literally leave the Boston assistant position so he could be a head coach in the AHL? Why would he agree to an assistant position in Ottawa?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

He likely fits what the Sens want to do moving forward.

Staios wants to play a certain way, and build a team a certain way.

He isn't just looking at coaches who were blessed with very good teams and great goaltending to have success in the league.

Babcock had all the success in the world and was the most in demand coach, probably ever, because he was able to coach teams with over half a dozen hall of famers and go on to winning series. He made absolutely no difference when was coaching a team without that talent, he was just any other coach.

They're looking for who they see as a fit with what they have, and what they want to do. They likely have a better idea on what that is, and what Greene brings, than we do reading what other fans are saying about him

He's not who I'd hire, but that's pretty irrelevant as I really have no clue what he brings/doesn't bring outside of secondhand info from others. Just like with every other coach available.

Stop being so level headed about this, it ruins the fun of posting.

 

[BondraTime]

Green is probably surprised he even got a second interview. Most coaches with that kind of resume usually build themselves back up by going back to the AHL or becoming NHL assistants. This guy just jumps into another head coach position?

He just finished a season as an assistant

 

[PlayOn]

Is Staios looking for rooking coach for the same reason Dorion did? No upward pressure?

Maybe all the other coaches are looking to win today while our management team thinks we're many years away?

I think management wants to be a playoff team asap but it’s not the most stable situation, at least I wouldn’t view it as such. Like realistically if we aren’t good next season, this core is gonna get broken up, Brady could ask for a trade etc. Then it’s almost a different job than what you initially signed up for. I’m sure these coaches see that.

 

[flyingfingers]

Green was a pretty hot commodity when he was hired by Vancouver, and the team showed steady progress his first 3 years while transitioning from being the Sedins team to Pettersson and Hughes' team.

It seems like Julien is willing and wanting to sign here, if we end up with Green it's likely because Staios thinks more highly of him that those around here do.

I'm not thrilled with the potential hire, but I also won't be rushing to judge it since as fans we don't really have a lot of visibility. At best we can look to end results and how player he coached viewed him, but I haven't seen much on Green.

He was never a hot commodity. He was the coach of their AHL team and missed the playoffs before being promoted to the big club. He was chosen because the Canucks had a GM out of his depth and a cheap, impulsive, meddling owner. They kept him in town far too long, fans were furious, and things have improved every since he left.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I’d love Gruden ad an assistant, but didn’t Gruden literally leave the Boston assistant position so he could be a head coach in the AHL? Why would he agree to an assistant position in Ottawa?

Hypothetically, if no one wants him as a news coach, signing with Ottawa could be a great move given his previous relationship with Staios and how much pressure there is to make the playoffs there is here.

It puts him in a can't lose position. If the new coaching staff turns this team around, he gets poached somewhere else as a head coach. If the team fails to make the playoffs, the new head coach might be gone within a few years and he steps in.

There is also the possibility of an associate coaching position, or something like that.

 

[Forge]

Surely the fact that New Jersey (a young team in a similar position to us) gave him a test drive and said no is a red flag, right?

I'm not going to be one to defend Green as a devils fan, but I will say that I'm not sure how much of a chance he had. I think Fitz is swinging big in the coach search. Pick the wrong coach / goalie and it could be the end for him as GM. If I had to guess, I think he'll swing decently big on both thinking that it's more likely to work well

 

[flyingfingers]

I’d love Gruden as an assistant, but didn’t Gruden literally leave the Boston assistant position so he could be a head coach in the AHL? Why would he agree to an assistant position in Ottawa?

Green doesn't have the clout of a McLellan, so Staios can probably force Gruden onto his staff as an "associate coach" and not just an assistant.

Then Andlauer will come out and say they have a "two-headed monster" behind the bench.

A guy like McLellan or Berube would want to hire their own people.

 

[Micklebot]

This new thought that coaches make no difference is very wild

I think it's less about coaches not making a difference, and more about fans ability to actually determine the difference a coach makes tends to be limited.

Hell, MacLean was runner up and winner of the Jack Adams, yet most here seem to have thought he was a terrible coach, Boucher took us to the ECF, and people think he was terrible. Do we think Babcock would have done better at the helm than either of those guys? Honestly, it's hard to say.

People thought that Maurice was a bad coach when he was with the leafs, Missed the playoffs in 13 out of 18 of his years as HC until the Jets turned things around a he's been in the playoffs 6 out of 7 years between two teams, with a WCF and trip the cup finals to his name.

From the outside looking in, it's not easy to evaluate a coach, thats all.

 

[Relapsing]

Colour me unimpressed if Green is hired.

Play the benefit of the doubt card all you want, to me this would make that card null and void.

Throw a god damned bucket of money at literally any other coach with pedigree to bring them here.

 

[BondraTime]

I think it's less about coaches not making a difference, and more about fans ability to actually determine the difference a coach makes tends to be limited.

Hell, MacLean was runner up and winner of the Jack Adams, yet most here seem to have thought he was a terrible coach, Boucher took us to the ECF, and people think he was terrible. Do we think Babcock would have done better at the helm than either of those guys? Honestly, it's hard to say.

People thought that Maurice was a bad coach when he was with the leafs, Missed the playoffs in 13 out of 18 of his years as HC until the Jets turned things around a he's been in the playoffs 6 out of 7 years between two teams, with a WCF and trip the cup finals to his name.

From the outside looking in, it's not easy to evaluate a coach, thats all.

It's very bizarre to me

Coaches can make a difference, that's why they're unterviewing and choosing who they think fits what they want. A guy who fits their vision and style is whats important to bringing a team like this group of hodge podge together

A coach only goes as far as his players take him.

Show me a good goalie or team, and I'll show you someone who at least looks like a good coach

Show me a bad team, and a bad goalie, and then your coach is likely getting fired, regardless of who the coach is

 

[flyingfingers]

I think it's less about coaches not making a difference, and more about fans ability to actually determine the difference a coach makes tends to be limited.

Hell, MacLean was runner up and winner of the Jack Adams, yet most here seem to have thought he was a terrible coach, Boucher took us to the ECF, and people think he was terrible. Do we think Babcock would have done better at the helm than either of those guys? Honestly, it's hard to say.

People thought that Maurice was a bad coach when he was with the leafs, Missed the playoffs in 13 out of 18 of his years as HC until the Jets turned things around a he's been in the playoffs 6 out of 7 years between two teams, with a WCF and trip the cup finals to his name.

From the outside looking in, it's not easy to evaluate a coach, thats all.

There are times when the fan's perception of a head coach is proven to be wrong. There are more times when it's proven to be right. For every Paul Maurice going to Florida, there five DJ Smiths going to Ottawa.

There's a reason why the Devils, a young team in a similar (albeit better) position than us have seemingly moved on from Green after seeing him in action for 21 games, and despite there being numerous vancancies, his name has only come up for this one.

There is a chance that Green would prove doubters wrong, yes. But based on the information we have and his track record, it's unlikely.

So of course the fans are very very underwhelmed with these reports, considering this team's history of coaches post Bryan Murray. What you're saying about Green was said by someone about every single on of those guys who came here, failed, and never got another job.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Good strategy to leak it today and announce it tomorrow night.

If they think it won't be a popular choice, all talk will be about the Senators winning the draft lottery.

 

[Micklebot]

He was never a hot commodity. He was the coach of their AHL team and missed the playoffs before being promoted to the big club. He was chosen because the Canucks had a GM out of his depth and a cheap, impulsive, meddling owner. They kept him in town far too long, fans were furious, and things have improved every since he left.

He was one of the candidates to replace Boudreau in Anahiem, he was certainly getting talked about as one of the up and coming coaches.

 

[Senator Stanley]

This is a fun analysis from a Canucks fan on Reddit:

Yikes. Sounds like a coach that can raise the floor for a terrible roster but couldn't adapt once the roster improved. Awful fit, if true.

 

[flyingfingers]

He was one of the candidates to replace Boudreau in Anahiem, he was certainly getting talked about as one of the up and coming coaches.

A job he ultimately didn't get. And since then, his results have been nothing but disappointing.

He was never a hot coaching prospect. He was a lukewarm one that in the end, didn't work out.

Staios and Andlauer are running the team and can do as they see fit, but this fanbase doesn't have much patience and isn't going to give them the benefit of the doubt if they hire this guy. You can only "see how it plays out" for so many years.

Maybe it's not fair to them since they just got here, but pro sports aren't fair. A person's track record does matter. Dave Poulin wasn't confidence inspiring but hey, he's a good guy and is in an assistant position. But Travis Green as head coach? After a lot of "best in class" talk? Not ideal.

When you say you want a winner and hire a career loser, you're going to get a negative reaction.

They'd be better off hiring an unknown.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Is Travis Green in with the Tkachuk family?

They played together.

Brady's NMC is coming up next year. He was presumably a DJ guy. Travis Green is obviously an in demand NHL coach, I'm not suggesting he is unqualified.

Is it possible that out of the qualified candidates, Tkachuk had some level of influence?

Seems extremely unlikely.

I also don't understand this fixation with when Brady's NMC kicks in. Let's start with the assumption that the team doesn't want to trade Brady. It's been said publicly, and it would be stupid to do so. So is the idea that Brady could ask for a trade, and so to maximize return the team might pre-emptively trade him before his NMC kicks in? In the hypothetical scenario where Brady does eventually ask for a trade, why would he ask for a trade before his NMC kicks in - after which he would have more control over his desintation. And, assuming he wouldn't ask for a trade before his NMC kicks in, for the reason I just mentioned, why would the organization trade him on the basis that he might ask for a trade later?

Basically - I don't see Brady asking out before his NMC kicks in, and it makes no sense for the team to trade him if he hasn't asked out.