The Case Against Steve Yzerman

[snowden]

Pretty damn sure no one was calling for Yzerman to be fired on this board.

Didn't bother reading because that's just dumb.

 

[JamieG]

You really want me to go through every thread from 2012-2013 to show you the posts? It's like saying in 3 years come back and find those threads that contained posters who say Stamkos is floating and doesn't care. When the sentiment is "Stamkos is the greatest, I love Stamkos" the same people posting now that he's playing like crap will deny it.

It's not that important to me to spend that amount of time going through old posts to prove it to you.

If you want to live in denial and pretend like you never jumped off the bandwagon, go ahead. But that's not reality.

I do remember that after weeks and months of hearing anti-Yzerman talk on the board, I personally found some of it to be so far off and reaching that I was moved to post in the Lecavalier thread (no, I haven't spend the time to search it out for you) where posters were saying "F you Yzerman. F you Vinik". When I posted to say that was kind of ridiculous, I was definitely in the minority (surprise, surprise).

Just a quick Google search (which doesn't bring up any "fire Yzerman" sentiment that doesn't actually contain the word "fire"....

-----------------------------------------

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/50804-With-Guy-Boucher-out-all-eyes-turn-to-Steve-Yzerman.html

With Guy Boucher out, all eyes turn to Steve Yzerman
The Lightning are known as one of the more underachieving teams in the NHL over the past two seasons and if that’s the case, then Boucher should have been fired. After all, it’s a coach’s responsibility to get the most out of the roster his GM gives him.

But what exactly did Yzerman give Boucher, aside from a couple of superstar offensive players that he had already inherited? Virtually every other aspect of the Lightning’s game - from goaltending to depth on defense to secondary scoring – has been far below the NHL standard. And that’s on the GM.

------------------------------------

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140310195338AAcyyBw

Who thinks this is the year Steve Yzerman FINALLY gets FIRED as GM of the Lightning?
Ever since 2011, he hasn't cut it. The Bolts are never going to be back in the playoffs until Yzerman leaves. Bottom Line. That man has messed up the Bolts SOOOOOOO BAD that they are in danger of missing the playoffs for a 3rd year in a row and will be relocated within the next 2-3 years. FACT!.

-----------------------------------------------------


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hock...wrong-one-to-blame-for-lightning-woes/2111003

Tom Jones: Blame Yzerman, not Boucher, for Lightning's woes

It let the underachieving players off the hook and deflected the blame from the person most responsible for this Lightning mess — general manager Steve Yzerman.

It is Yzerman, not Boucher, who hasn't solved the Lightning's never-ending problem in goal.

-----------------------------------------
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9092420/nhl-next-tampa-bay-lightning-firing-guy-boucher

What's next for Yzerman, Lightning?

If Boucher found the learning curve in the NHL to be a difficult thing to master, it is fair to say that Yzerman likewise is working his way up that curve as well.

His next coaching call will say much about both his future and the future of the Lightning, a future that looks dramatically different today in Winnipeg than it did two springs ago in Boston.

===============

And keep in mind those only came up because of the word "fire" because of Boucher.

And that's all the time I'm willing to put into searching. But hey, keep on denying that "YzerPlans", "Yzalam", Yzer-Jesus", "Yzeriology", was always the way when really a lot of you wanted to throw Yzerman overboard when it was trendy. And it will be again.

By the way, it is kind of amusing that one of the arguments I used was the Bishop move when he could have been had a year earlier from St. Louis. I used that because if things go bad that's one of the things that can brought up.

But it is amusing that I do recall at the time actually being in the minority (remember at the time Conacher was having a good season, so naturally, because that was the popular opinion, the majority of people were upset) that I actually said it wasn't that big of a deal because Conacher was replaceable and T. Johnson was a similar player who would fill the role -- and I was scolded by someone who is scolding me in this thread - the person is a Moderator so I won't embarrass him by actually posting what he said. But it is amusing to see how people change their tunes depending on which way the wind is blowing today and what others will agree with.

 

[Sky04]

Ah so the last 2 years are being ignored to prove a point,

 

[JamieG]

? The point is when things go bad then the popular sentiment is Yzerman is a moron who should be fired.

But when things go well it's "Yzer-God", etc.

If the wheels continue to fall off in the 2nd half, the movement to get rid of Yzerman will come back.

 

[Sky04]

? The point is when things go bad then the popular sentiment is Yzerman is a moron who should be fired.

But when things go well it's "Yzer-God", etc.

If the wheels continue to fall off in the 2nd half, the movement to get rid of Yzerman will come back.

 

[Obviously]

I can never tell if OP's posts are trolling or not. He gets on these boards every now and then and says the most delusional things I've ever read. No one can be that delusional.

He works in a mysterious way, he bumps a thread from months ago with a bomb and then disappears as quickly as he came.

 

[DFC]

You really want me to go through every thread from 2012-2013 to show you the posts? It's like saying in 3 years come back and find those threads that contained posters who say Stamkos is floating and doesn't care. When the sentiment is "Stamkos is the greatest, I love Stamkos" the same people posting now that he's playing like crap will deny it.

It's not that important to me to spend that amount of time going through old posts to prove it to you.

If you want to live in denial and pretend like you never jumped off the bandwagon, go ahead. But that's not reality.

I do remember that after weeks and months of hearing anti-Yzerman talk on the board, I personally found some of it to be so far off and reaching that I was moved to post in the Lecavalier thread (no, I haven't spend the time to search it out for you) where posters were saying "F you Yzerman. F you Vinik". When I posted to say that was kind of ridiculous, I was definitely in the minority (surprise, surprise).

Just a quick Google search (which doesn't bring up any "fire Yzerman" sentiment that doesn't actually contain the word "fire"....

-----------------------------------------

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/50804-With-Guy-Boucher-out-all-eyes-turn-to-Steve-Yzerman.html

With Guy Boucher out, all eyes turn to Steve Yzerman
The Lightning are known as one of the more underachieving teams in the NHL over the past two seasons and if that’s the case, then Boucher should have been fired. After all, it’s a coach’s responsibility to get the most out of the roster his GM gives him.

But what exactly did Yzerman give Boucher, aside from a couple of superstar offensive players that he had already inherited? Virtually every other aspect of the Lightning’s game - from goaltending to depth on defense to secondary scoring – has been far below the NHL standard. And that’s on the GM.

------------------------------------

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140310195338AAcyyBw

Who thinks this is the year Steve Yzerman FINALLY gets FIRED as GM of the Lightning?
Ever since 2011, he hasn't cut it. The Bolts are never going to be back in the playoffs until Yzerman leaves. Bottom Line. That man has messed up the Bolts SOOOOOOO BAD that they are in danger of missing the playoffs for a 3rd year in a row and will be relocated within the next 2-3 years. FACT!.

-----------------------------------------------------


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hock...wrong-one-to-blame-for-lightning-woes/2111003

Tom Jones: Blame Yzerman, not Boucher, for Lightning's woes

It let the underachieving players off the hook and deflected the blame from the person most responsible for this Lightning mess — general manager Steve Yzerman.

It is Yzerman, not Boucher, who hasn't solved the Lightning's never-ending problem in goal.

-----------------------------------------
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9092420/nhl-next-tampa-bay-lightning-firing-guy-boucher

What's next for Yzerman, Lightning?

If Boucher found the learning curve in the NHL to be a difficult thing to master, it is fair to say that Yzerman likewise is working his way up that curve as well.

His next coaching call will say much about both his future and the future of the Lightning, a future that looks dramatically different today in Winnipeg than it did two springs ago in Boston.

===============

And keep in mind those only came up because of the word "fire" because of Boucher.

And that's all the time I'm willing to put into searching. But hey, keep on denying that "YzerPlans", "Yzalam", Yzer-Jesus", "Yzeriology", was always the way when really a lot of you wanted to throw Yzerman overboard when it was trendy. And it will be again.

By the way, it is kind of amusing that one of the arguments I used was the Bishop move when he could have been had a year earlier from St. Louis. I used that because if things go bad that's one of the things that can brought up.

But it is amusing that I do recall at the time actually being in the minority (remember at the time Conacher was having a good season, so naturally, because that was the popular opinion, the majority of people were upset) that I actually said it wasn't that big of a deal because Conacher was replaceable and T. Johnson was a similar player who would fill the role -- and I was scolded by someone who is scolding me in this thread - the person is a Moderator so I won't embarrass him by actually posting what he said. But it is amusing to see how people change their tunes depending on which way the wind is blowing today and what others will agree with.

Big picture: Losing franchise -- tinker, tinker, tinker -- winning franchise with prospect pool among the deepest in the league.

Not too shabby.

You've been given excellent results and you're asking for perfection.

 

[ThunderAlleyNomad]

You really want me to go through every thread from 2012-2013 to show you the posts? It's like saying in 3 years come back and find those threads that contained posters who say Stamkos is floating and doesn't care. When the sentiment is "Stamkos is the greatest, I love Stamkos" the same people posting now that he's playing like crap will deny it.

It's not that important to me to spend that amount of time going through old posts to prove it to you.

If you want to live in denial and pretend like you never jumped off the bandwagon, go ahead. But that's not reality.

I do remember that after weeks and months of hearing anti-Yzerman talk on the board, I personally found some of it to be so far off and reaching that I was moved to post in the Lecavalier thread (no, I haven't spend the time to search it out for you) where posters were saying "F you Yzerman. F you Vinik". When I posted to say that was kind of ridiculous, I was definitely in the minority (surprise, surprise).

Just a quick Google search (which doesn't bring up any "fire Yzerman" sentiment that doesn't actually contain the word "fire"....

-----------------------------------------

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/50804-With-Guy-Boucher-out-all-eyes-turn-to-Steve-Yzerman.html

With Guy Boucher out, all eyes turn to Steve Yzerman
The Lightning are known as one of the more underachieving teams in the NHL over the past two seasons and if that’s the case, then Boucher should have been fired. After all, it’s a coach’s responsibility to get the most out of the roster his GM gives him.

But what exactly did Yzerman give Boucher, aside from a couple of superstar offensive players that he had already inherited? Virtually every other aspect of the Lightning’s game - from goaltending to depth on defense to secondary scoring – has been far below the NHL standard. And that’s on the GM.

------------------------------------

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140310195338AAcyyBw

Who thinks this is the year Steve Yzerman FINALLY gets FIRED as GM of the Lightning?
Ever since 2011, he hasn't cut it. The Bolts are never going to be back in the playoffs until Yzerman leaves. Bottom Line. That man has messed up the Bolts SOOOOOOO BAD that they are in danger of missing the playoffs for a 3rd year in a row and will be relocated within the next 2-3 years. FACT!.

-----------------------------------------------------


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hock...wrong-one-to-blame-for-lightning-woes/2111003

Tom Jones: Blame Yzerman, not Boucher, for Lightning's woes

It let the underachieving players off the hook and deflected the blame from the person most responsible for this Lightning mess — general manager Steve Yzerman.

It is Yzerman, not Boucher, who hasn't solved the Lightning's never-ending problem in goal.

-----------------------------------------
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9092420/nhl-next-tampa-bay-lightning-firing-guy-boucher

What's next for Yzerman, Lightning?

If Boucher found the learning curve in the NHL to be a difficult thing to master, it is fair to say that Yzerman likewise is working his way up that curve as well.

His next coaching call will say much about both his future and the future of the Lightning, a future that looks dramatically different today in Winnipeg than it did two springs ago in Boston.

===============

And keep in mind those only came up because of the word "fire" because of Boucher.

And that's all the time I'm willing to put into searching. But hey, keep on denying that "YzerPlans", "Yzalam", Yzer-Jesus", "Yzeriology", was always the way when really a lot of you wanted to throw Yzerman overboard when it was trendy. And it will be again.

By the way, it is kind of amusing that one of the arguments I used was the Bishop move when he could have been had a year earlier from St. Louis. I used that because if things go bad that's one of the things that can brought up.

But it is amusing that I do recall at the time actually being in the minority (remember at the time Conacher was having a good season, so naturally, because that was the popular opinion, the majority of people were upset) that I actually said it wasn't that big of a deal because Conacher was replaceable and T. Johnson was a similar player who would fill the role -- and I was scolded by someone who is scolding me in this thread - the person is a Moderator so I won't embarrass him by actually posting what he said. But it is amusing to see how people change their tunes depending on which way the wind is blowing today and what others will agree with.

You linked 4 items. None are HF Boards. Two are out of market hockey publications (ESPN, Hockey News), the one local article is from a sports writer. I.E. absolutely none of it proves that the fans have ever wanted Yzerman fired. The only one that comes close and actually is from the fans is the Yahoo bit, with it's very small amount of replies.

Oddly enough, I can find the Lecavalier thread really easily. Several people were upset. One guy wanted Yzerman fired. One

While all of this may seem irrelevant to the main point of your OP, it really isn't. You've started with a false premise. One that you've continued to defend. You're wrong.

 

[Werewolf]

Trade Stamkos! Fire Yzerman! Fire Cooper! Pitchforks this way guys follow me....!!!!!

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Trade Stamkos! Fire Yzerman! Fire Cooper! Pitchforks this way guys follow me....!!!!!

Don't forget Connolly and Killorn. **** those guys!

 

[Glide5]

There was never a point where the majority of fans called for Yzerman to be fired. The whole premise your argument is based on is flawed.

I remember 2013 well. It was funny, most of the other fan bases were saying SFY should be fired. And most of us on the forum were supporting him fully still. There were maybe 3-5 people saying fire Yzerman, but you will get that anywhere.

 

[Stammer Time*]

Haha at citing Yahoo answers and Tom Jones for proof that on HF "popular sentiment was that Yzerman should have been fired."

 

[tidus37]

@OP

 

[Coopers Gum]

It's even more funny that he's trying to be a hipster about literally everything he's said.

"I was skeptical of Stamkos before it was cool."

"I was on the fire Yzerman train before it was cool." (it was never cool)

"I was on the Johnson train before it was cool."

 

[Stormbreaker]

Fire this thread.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Post of the year, you nailed all of it my friend. Don't let these haters tell you otherwise, speak the truth. I'm tired of Connolly getting a free pass around here.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

So he spent the time to look up ridiculous sensationalistic articles but couldn't do a simple search on this forum to actually prove his point. Seems legit.

I have very literally seen one person that is a TB fan saying Yzerman needs to go and that's Physical Graffitti and it's because he hates the uniforms.

I do remember seeing a main board thread or two that had fire Yzerman or Yzerman is a terrible GM implications but I also distinctly remember all TB fans coming in and saying those people were crazy.

 

[Tmix]

I honestly don't believe the OP could be any more wrong. in almost everything

 

[Bolt32]

Please don't tell me your serious.

 

[MattM92]

How about firing Vinik? All he does is buy property in the ****hole of downtown Tampa. He can't have any money left. Team is going to Vegas as soon as next year.

Seriously, ridiculous thread. Please just close it.

 

[wxkid23]

Steve is fine until Stamkos is up for FA. If Stamkos doesn't resign or like you said make out very well in a trade he will very quickly be thrown under bus (unless we win this year). I'm in the minority here but I think Stamkos resigning is 50/50 and a lot of that depends on what happens with Toronto in the near future. You can never discount a player returning home to play for his childhood dream. I hate the Leafs as much as anyone and it would make me sick. Stamkos isn't right this year though. The stats are alright but he's acting nothing like a captain. I don't know what's up ... maybe the injury

 

[Colt.45Orr]

They say that no matter what you do, around 4% of the people you meet will hate you.

Obviously, the OP and Yzerman have likely not met but I'd say the OP absolutely hates Yzerman and that is OK... it is natural. I also like threads that are outside the regular box of thinking.

As an outside fan, Yzerman is doing great for you guys.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

This is the case for firing Yzerman.

...

The most qualified guys for the job or simply buddies with Stevie?

Pretty strong "case" you have here. You know it is airtight when it is phrased as a question.

 

[garmonbozia]

Let's consider the possibly that the recent slide continues and the Lightning either get embarrassed in the playoffs again this year or miss it completely.

Given the bi-polar relationship Tampa fans have towards Yzerman (I know nobody admits it now since "Yzelam and Yzerology" is popular) but the fact was there were a majority of people calling for Yzerman to be fired early in 2013 to Sept 2013.

So if things continue to go south, it's not hard to envision the band wagon will be to fire Yzerman.

Would you be on board?

This is the case for firing Yzerman.

1. If this year doesn't turn around, he is 0-2 with picking coaches. Both Boucher and Cooper got a lot of praise early, but they appear to be questionable choices by Yzerman.

2. His inability to solve the goaltending issue. First there was the SmEllis debacle, which was temporarily solved by Roloson, than the failure of extending Roloson a year too long, then the Lindback debacle as the "next one", it was solved by the Bishop trade who could have been had off waivers earlier.

Yzerman appears to potentially further screw up the goalie situation by signing Nabakov who lets be honest, has flat out stunk while we have 2 goalies in the AHL who give the team a better chance to win. But thanks to Yzerman's horrible signing, when Bishop comes back from injury, Vasi is going back down. Will those 2 have their development ruined by not being given a chance at the right time?

Also, it is quite easy to envision that the Bishop contract will be hanging over this team's head soon. If Nabby were to disappear and Bishop's injury woes were to continue (Bishop has not been as good this year as he was last year) and Vasi continued his strong play, then what? Vasi is relegated to the bench because of Yzerman's contract and commitment to Bishop?

3. Yzerman's failure in the first round of the draft. I know some will disagree, but there comes a time people where you have to call a goat a goat. I swear that Brett Connoly will be a 34 year old still doing nothing and some of you will be yelling "You can't call him a bust, he's only 34! Wait until next year!

Seriously, it's a fact that most of Yzerman's first round selections are not as good as players who were drafted in a similar spot or behind them.

Connolly is a hindrance. We see how this team is being hurt by the organization's desperation for him to prove he's not a bust.

Slater Koekkoek still not on the horizon for cracking the NHL line up despite his peers emerging as stars.

And then there's Jonathan Drouin. One year gone already. This year being used as a bit part. Sure you can blame Cooper for not giving him a shot, but who put Cooper in charge? Yzerman.

4. There's the albatross that is Matt Carle's contract.

5. Yzerman's ego. Whether you blame the other party or not, Yzerman alienated MSL and the Lightnings all time greats bolted solely because of Yzerman. It also has obviously damaged Stamkos, as both his play and his attitude of "I miss Marty so much". If the Stamkos contract negotiations turn ugly, will you be willing to throw Yzerman overboard for Stamkos?

6. Yzerman's penchant for hiring his buddies for roles in the Lightning organization. Steve Thomas? Pat Verbeek? The most qualified guys for the job or simply buddies with Stevie?

Sure there's been some good later round picks but every team gets lucky with a few.

So what do you say? Six months from now will Yzerman get the axe?

Remember when we had a "Steve Yzerman Appreciation Thread" this past summer?

JamieG said;

Somebody said Lightning fans are bi-polar with Yzerman and that's true.

Everyone denies it now, but through the latter part of the 2013 season and into the summer the popular sentiment was that Yzerman should be fired.

And Lightning fans on this board were livid over the Cory Conacher for Ben Bishop trade.

My response hasn't changed in the six months since. Review your agenda before projecting it on to others, please.

 

[BOLTMAN]

Let's consider the possibly that the recent slide continues and the Lightning either get embarrassed in the playoffs again this year or miss it completely.

Given the bi-polar relationship Tampa fans have towards Yzerman (I know nobody admits it now since "Yzelam and Yzerology" is popular) but the fact was there were a majority of people calling for Yzerman to be fired early in 2013 to Sept 2013.

So if things continue to go south, it's not hard to envision the band wagon will be to fire Yzerman.

Would you be on board?

This is the case for firing Yzerman.

1. If this year doesn't turn around, he is 0-2 with picking coaches. Both Boucher and Cooper got a lot of praise early, but they appear to be questionable choices by Yzerman.

2. His inability to solve the goaltending issue. First there was the SmEllis debacle, which was temporarily solved by Roloson, than the failure of extending Roloson a year too long, then the Lindback debacle as the "next one", it was solved by the Bishop trade who could have been had off waivers earlier.

Yzerman appears to potentially further screw up the goalie situation by signing Nabakov who lets be honest, has flat out stunk while we have 2 goalies in the AHL who give the team a better chance to win. But thanks to Yzerman's horrible signing, when Bishop comes back from injury, Vasi is going back down. Will those 2 have their development ruined by not being given a chance at the right time?

Also, it is quite easy to envision that the Bishop contract will be hanging over this team's head soon. If Nabby were to disappear and Bishop's injury woes were to continue (Bishop has not been as good this year as he was last year) and Vasi continued his strong play, then what? Vasi is relegated to the bench because of Yzerman's contract and commitment to Bishop?

3. Yzerman's failure in the first round of the draft. I know some will disagree, but there comes a time people where you have to call a goat a goat. I swear that Brett Connoly will be a 34 year old still doing nothing and some of you will be yelling "You can't call him a bust, he's only 34! Wait until next year!

Seriously, it's a fact that most of Yzerman's first round selections are not as good as players who were drafted in a similar spot or behind them.

Connolly is a hindrance. We see how this team is being hurt by the organization's desperation for him to prove he's not a bust.

Slater Koekkoek still not on the horizon for cracking the NHL line up despite his peers emerging as stars.

And then there's Jonathan Drouin. One year gone already. This year being used as a bit part. Sure you can blame Cooper for not giving him a shot, but who put Cooper in charge? Yzerman.

4. There's the albatross that is Matt Carle's contract.

5. Yzerman's ego. Whether you blame the other party or not, Yzerman alienated MSL and the Lightnings all time greats bolted solely because of Yzerman. It also has obviously damaged Stamkos, as both his play and his attitude of "I miss Marty so much". If the Stamkos contract negotiations turn ugly, will you be willing to throw Yzerman overboard for Stamkos?

6. Yzerman's penchant for hiring his buddies for roles in the Lightning organization. Steve Thomas? Pat Verbeek? The most qualified guys for the job or simply buddies with Stevie?

Sure there's been some good later round picks but every team gets lucky with a few.

So what do you say? Six months from now will Yzerman get the axe?

840 posts .. how did your thinking end up like this?