You should see what the CAD was to the USD in the 90s vs when it was in 2006.
Canadian clubs not being able to compete had a lot more to do with oil prices than the salary cap.
Speculation: The Cap has ruined hockey for fans
- Thread starter WaitingForUser
- Start date
You should see what the CAD was to the USD in the 90s vs when it was in 2006.
Canadian clubs not being able to compete had a lot more to do with oil prices than the salary cap.
Aerchon
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2011
- 10,527
- 3,728
The unfortunate truth is the cap is not a problem at all... the GMS are just too stupid to manage it.
Holland obviously but many/most are just not strong at math, patterns, inflation, finance, and business.
Same with the many of the fans. Half this board was convinced that Nurse would sign for 8 mill... That was boarder line delusional.
The cap is a great system to promote a somewhat level playing field. There are still a couple rather large discrepancies like taxation and LTIR abuse but it's a solid system for the good of the sport.
It's very unfortunate that the GMs have to be protected from themselves much of the time. A statement I've heard many times and very very true.
The GMs in a cap need to know hockey very well but in a cap world thy need math, patterns, and financial knowledge every bit as much. And most GMs in the league just don't.
If owners would insist on having good smart educated experienced in financial decision GMs rather than old players and just old thinkers the game would be much better off.
Holland obviously but many/most are just not strong at math, patterns, inflation, finance, and business.
Same with the many of the fans. Half this board was convinced that Nurse would sign for 8 mill... That was boarder line delusional.
The cap is a great system to promote a somewhat level playing field. There are still a couple rather large discrepancies like taxation and LTIR abuse but it's a solid system for the good of the sport.
It's very unfortunate that the GMs have to be protected from themselves much of the time. A statement I've heard many times and very very true.
The GMs in a cap need to know hockey very well but in a cap world thy need math, patterns, and financial knowledge every bit as much. And most GMs in the league just don't.
If owners would insist on having good smart educated experienced in financial decision GMs rather than old players and just old thinkers the game would be much better off.
In the cap era they've never not used AAV so not sure how it created 17 year deals.
The NBA and NFL have fluctuating cap hits and seem to manage fine.
Might be unlikely to happen but of all the cap leagues they are the only one to incorporate aav.
WaitingForUser
Registered User
In answer to your question when kovalchuck signed in NJ it was a 17 year 100 million dollar deal. It ended the front loaded contract and created the cap recapture if a player retired early. Also cost NJ a first round pick for attempted circumvention.
Patriots also adjust to the times.
When the 2011 CBA was ratified with limited practice time Patriots and Belicheck focused on offer sheets for established NFLers who'd been around the game. They didn't waste time drafting and developing all their players as that could take years.
Part of the problem is more teams don't adjust strategies in the NHL which is probably why fans get so angry when nothing changes after doing the same thing everyone else does.
Yes. I know that. The NHL used AAV and it created contracts just like that. Not using AAV, I am arguing, would eliminate these contracts. There'd be no advantage to this kind of deal as the early years will be expensive and the later years will not affect the cap hit.
An Oilers fan who says "the cap is bad" clearly doesn't remember the late 90s/early 00s when our group of 37 owners (and seriously god bless them for what they did keeping the team in Edmonton) would have to dip into their own pockets but we still had to trade our stars before they hit free agency. Now we have the best player in the world playing for us and and MVP candidate to go with him. Its not the cap's fault that Chiarelli was a terrible GM and made stupid moves like trading for Reinhart, giving Koskinen a 3 year deal on the way out the door, etc.
WaitingForUser
Registered User
Oh trust me I remember I also remember the soo campaign. Again I am not saying the cap is bad for the game I am saying it’s bad for the fans. It causes us to bitch and squabble over what monetary value a player holds more so than what they can contribute on the ice. I know full well the cap saved the Oilers,Flames and the Sens from folding.
Revisionist history. Pocklington sold him outright.
nexttothemoon
and again...
One team should try to run their team by fan opinion polls instead of using a GM. 
The feedback process and engagement with the fanbase would be through the roof (and they wouldn't have to pay a GM salary so there's the cash savings as well for the ownership).
Plus the fans obviously couldn't complain about the moves the team makes because they'd be making them.
I say this partly in jest because I'm sure there's technicalities that would make it inefficient to actually do... but a fanbase running it's own team would be a level of engagement and participation for the fans that would likely make it a very popular move.
Could we collectively do the job as good as Tambo/Chiarelli? Couldn't do much worse most likely.
The feedback process and engagement with the fanbase would be through the roof (and they wouldn't have to pay a GM salary so there's the cash savings as well for the ownership). Plus the fans obviously couldn't complain about the moves the team makes because they'd be making them.
I say this partly in jest because I'm sure there's technicalities that would make it inefficient to actually do... but a fanbase running it's own team would be a level of engagement and participation for the fans that would likely make it a very popular move.
Could we collectively do the job as good as Tambo/Chiarelli? Couldn't do much worse most likely.
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He says as much in his book, too. Doesn't even try to hide it.
He also tried to trade the Oilers for the Leafs one for one plus like 500 million or something stupid like that. Toronto said yes, league said no.
As bad as the Gretzky trade was... imagine what could have been.
One team should try to run their team by fan opinions polls instead of using a GM.
Plus the fans obviously couldn't complain about the moves the team makes because they'd be making them.
I say this partly in jest because I'm sure there's technicalities that would make it inefficient to actually do... but a fanbase running it's own team would be a level of engagement and participation for the fans that would likely make it a very popular move.
Could we collectively do the job as good as Tambo/Chiarelli? Couldn't do much worse most likely.
"Twitch plays NHL GM."
rboomercat90
Registered User
I’m not sure that Gretzky deserves blame or not. The truth is he won four Stanley Cups, obliterated almost every offensive record in the league and was unquestionably considered the greatest player the game had ever seen yet he wasn’t the highest paid player in the league until he was traded to the Kings. I can’t blame him if he had anything to do with wanting to go.
Poklington was trying to sign him long-term he wanted to test the market a year later. So it was either trade him or risk letting him walk in a year for nothing.
The ESPN 30-for-30 called King's Ransom. Until I saw that I blamed Janet Jones and Peter Pocklington for the trade. But Gretzky himself had a lot to do with it.
Yes I have seen it. Pocklington initiated the trade due to his financial complications. End of story.
100%.
From a pure business perspective (in the short term) it was actually a home run for him. I'm not sure the entire Oilers franchise would have gone for much more than that if he sold it at the time.
Long term it was stupid, but at that very moment I can see why he did it, even though it raped the Oilers and the country of the greatest player of all time.
Stoneman89
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2008
- 27,476
- 21,933
The thing that pisses me off about the Gretzky sale, after learning the details of it and the story evolved several years later, is that, ironically, the guy that bought him wasn't in a hell of a lot better position financially than the hated Pocklington, Bruce McNall was a paper tiger as well, using borrowed money to prop up his empire. Not only borrowed money, but illegal money, as he also became a jailbird like Pocklington.
rboomercat90
Registered User
There sure were a lot of those frauds involved in professional sports during that era.
Yeah Bruce McNall is probably the worst thing to happen to hockey. We wouldn't have teams in Phoenix, Anaheim, etc if not for him
Stoneman89
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2008
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Nothing against hockey expansion, and in that context, in the greater picture, having Gretzky play in southern California did indeed ultimately propel things quicker that they might otherwise have happened. But that doesn't take away from my point of McNall being a crook, and using other peoples money to make himself look like a phoney bigshot, similar to our own owner at the time. But obviously, you're a fan of his, so no need to discuss further.
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