No I am not a fan of his. I was being 100% serious when I said that McNall was the worst thing that happened to hockey. I don't like the fact that we have teams in half empty arenas in Phoenix and Anaheim as opposed to Quebec City and Hamilton. Not to mention not having the Winnipeg for 15 years and almost losing our team in 1996. The trade propped up by phony money lead to the escalation in salaries that broke up our dynasty.
Speculation: The Cap has ruined hockey for fans
- Thread starter WaitingForUser
- Start date
No I am not a fan of his. I was being 100% serious when I said that McNall was the worst thing that happened to hockey. I don't like the fact that we have teams in half empty arenas in Phoenix and Anaheim as opposed to Quebec City and Hamilton. Not to mention not having the Winnipeg for 15 years and almost losing our team in 1996. The trade propped up by phony money lead to the escalation in salaries that broke up our dynasty.
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
Hard reality is this is big business that likes to cloak itself as mom, dad and apple pie leveraging the emotional connection for maximum return. Like any big business, resources are going to flow where they can maximize profit and that has been in prioritizing expanding franchises in major American markets. It's also why the goofiness of Edmonton and Calgary 'threats' to move out of cozy monopolistic conditions for Seattle or Houston were hollow - why let one of your full house franchises move to Seattle or Houston when you can get full market value (now $650 million) via expansion fees.
Bettman's done an incredible job in building financial success for his bosses, the cartel of NHL franchise owners. And their employee, the unioned NHL workforce, have also seen their paycheques rise exponentially through Bettman's era. The fans are along for the ride as the league continues to diversify its revenue from a gate-driven business through record setting broadcast deals and other initiatives. There's essentially zero business case to add a Quebec or Hamilton with a $650 million U.S. price tag to join the club and little appetite for a predominantly U.S. league to watch more Cancon.
Revenue, rules and realignment: Gary Bettman marks 25 years as NHL commissioner
When Bettman took over, league-wide revenues were about US$400-million. Projected revenues for the 2018-19 campaign are US$4.54-billion.
The NHL still trails other major North American sports leagues in value, but having more teams, larger arenas and better television and sponsorship deals has seen the NHL get substantially bigger and richer under Bettman.
Forbes magazine estimates NHL clubs are worth an average of $594-million, with the New York Rangers leading the way at US$1.5-billion.
As Michael Corleone said, "It's not personal. It's strictly business."
EDIT: The Cap at least provides some measure of cost control that requires all teams within the cartel to operate with a fixed range of salary. But if your team bungles that or say is critically poor at the hockey operations function (drafting, development, trades, signings) for say more than a decade then it isn't really a league issue if they cannot fix the management issues that are completely within their ability to control.
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CornKicker
Holland is wrong..except all of the good things
- Feb 18, 2005
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i think its extremely hypocritcal for oilers fans to say the salary cap is bad. of course it is right now because we have 2 of the best players in the world and an owner with deep pockets. But i remember the days of NYR, DET, COL, TOR buying all the top end talent and leaving nothing but scraps and bums for the oilers. The Cap has allowed us to build a competitive team
TheNumber4
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- Nov 11, 2011
- 37,681
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McRpro
Cont. without supporting.
WaitingForUser
Registered User
1990 and that is very a bad take IMO. I remember the days before the cap just fine. I watched star player after star player leave the team. I don’t think it’s bad for hockey it’s bad bad for the fans.
McRpro
Cont. without supporting.
This doesn't make sense. You say the cap is good for hockey but bad for the fans. I was a fan when Weight, Guerin, Joseph etc left because of the lack of a salary cap. Believe me, that was not good for the fans. The cap = good for hockey and the fans. Oilers fans.
I was a kid then and it f***ing sucked each time. At least the Oilers got Anson Carter back fro Guerin, so it wasn't a complete low blow, but the other two really sucked.
As a kid I basically resigned myself to the idea that the underdog hard working team that could squeeze out a series win now and again was about as good as the Oilers were ever going to get. The winning was going to be left up to the $ teams (Stars, Red Wings, Avalanche, Devils, etc.).
Now we are in the same place, but because of inept management, not because we are bringing a knife to a gun fight economically.
nexttothemoon
and again...
NHL needs to make 31 clones of Steve Yzerman then as well to make Management parity as well after they have the cap equalized between the various cities.
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
- 13,604
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nexttothemoon
and again...
To be fair... GM's screw up a LOT... the true "average" GM is by definition worse than half the field they are in and better than half the field as well... just like any other profession. So by definition there are definitely some crappy GMs (and many good ones) and nothing about being a GM points to a fact that they aren't open to criticism from fans just as they aren't immune to being fired by owners often as well.
This is all a game (although yes it's a multibillion dollar revenue generating game)... but still a game of chasing each other around while playing with a rubber puck with sticks... and I see no reason that people (fans) can't participate in that "game" by criticizing and critiquing players/gms/owners for the actions they take to try and win that game (successfully in a few cases but more often than not unsuccessfully).
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
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It's a pyramid scheme. 32 teams and one has to finish last. That opens them up to fan critics..pure math
Fans have VERY little info to "inside" info like family, gambling, politics, intangibles, etc.
It is all hearsay info and hindsight info 90% of the time
Fans also have NO knowledge if a team is playing the 5 year game or a 2 year game
There also is no fair in public opinion...like when Hoffman and Karlsson's spouses get into it. These are intangibles, There is no formula that predicts a player like Ladd falls off a cliff while Chara keeps playing. Pure hindsight after that
LA won a cup or 2 without offense..while CHI won a cup or 2 without centers
Fans don't know sh*t, they only react to moves
nexttothemoon
and again...
You make some good points.
Some moves that teams/GM's make have a multitude of variables... and many of those variables are chaotic/unknown/random. Injuries happen. Players get married and other "real life" circumstances change. Players age, their bodies can't keep up and they gradually (and sometimes quickly and drastically) lose their skills. Covid-19 sweeps the planet and affects EVERYTHING. Exchange rates between US/CAD change... often drastically because of external factors... ie oil prices, debt levels of nations etc etc.
Many of these variables/factors can't be predicted easily if at all so I get the argument that hindsight is certainly 20-20 and even then... if someone says they should have done x and y and z instead of u and v and w... the butterfly effect means that it's likely unknown if those alternative actions would have resulted in any better end results than the original path taken.
A good example is the exact chain of events that transpired for years leading up to where the Oilers finished in the exact position to get the McDavid draft pick at #1 overall... if even slight changes occurred... Connor McDavid would certainly not have been an Oiler so yes to get McDavid they needed that level of incompetency from Tambellini/MacTavish/Eakins etc to be able to land in that exact spot to get McDavid. Any other chain of events likely would not have lead to McDavid within the organization now... and for that matter likely not Draisaitl either.
Would the team have been worse or better off NOW... if they had had better GM's, better coaches, better drafting etc for those years before they drafted McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Yakupov, Hall, Nurse, Puljujarvi etc. Possibly and possibly not.
They might still have been a middle of the pack "average" team spinning its wheels perpetually... always a playoff team and never a contender. There's plenty of those teams in the NHL as well when only 1 team in (now 32) that can win the cup each year and 31 "failures" each year as well.
I guess my point though is that fan participation IS a large aspect to what makes the sport popular (and what keeps fans engaged and spending money watching the games, buying merch etc). If fans didn't have an innate interest in the goings on in their teams... and that includes online/offline criticizing/critiquing players/GMs etc... and didn't spend the mental energy (and their dollars) on the game of hockey... then this game wouldn't generate the billions that it does and instead it would likely be a periphery sport like CFL football which will never attract the best talent and will never be able to put the best quality players into action each game and won't ever make their players into millionaires like the NHL can and does.
The owners/players/coaches/GM's (and the fanbases themselves) of NHL teams have to put up with and accept that fan interaction (and critiquing/criticizing) is all a part of the sport and is why there is the level of popularity and engagement that there is for NHL hockey that helps generate those billions of dollars that line the pockets of every owner, GM, player, scout, coach etc.
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Game management on behalf of the NHL and Ref's has ruined the sport if anything.
Come playoff time there's only 2 penalties in the game.
1. Puck over glass.
2. High sticking.
The rest of the penalties are merely game management tools.
I believe it was a quote by Barry Trotz that pretty much affirms this. Basically said "don't shoot it over the glass, don't get your stick high, don't do anything stupid in the Offensive zone"
Which pretty much means.. I don't give a shit how many hooking calls you get in your own end.. we'll take those because they won't call them all. He knows how the Refs manage the games.
interference and obstruction is pretty much legal in this league so long it's not in your offensive end. Sure you'll get a token call. But if you do it 1000 times a game and get 1 penalty. The other 999 times is such a defensive advantage it's worth it.
Come playoff time there's only 2 penalties in the game.
1. Puck over glass.
2. High sticking.
The rest of the penalties are merely game management tools.
I believe it was a quote by Barry Trotz that pretty much affirms this. Basically said "don't shoot it over the glass, don't get your stick high, don't do anything stupid in the Offensive zone"
Which pretty much means.. I don't give a shit how many hooking calls you get in your own end.. we'll take those because they won't call them all. He knows how the Refs manage the games.
interference and obstruction is pretty much legal in this league so long it's not in your offensive end. Sure you'll get a token call. But if you do it 1000 times a game and get 1 penalty. The other 999 times is such a defensive advantage it's worth it.
94 Oil Drops
McHy is the new McDrai.
I don't think the cap has ruined hockey for fans. I do however believe the officiating has.
Some interesting discussion in here. I'm not sure I exactly buy the "all GMs are stupid" argument. As some have stated, I think it's easy to criticize moves from a fan perspective, but there is definitely way more that goes into these decisions/moves than we know.
It's not like decisions are made akin to impulse buying at a grocery store, nor is there some magical store where there are a large variety players available to buy, which is what I feel some make it out to be.
It's not like decisions are made akin to impulse buying at a grocery store, nor is there some magical store where there are a large variety players available to buy, which is what I feel some make it out to be.
nexttothemoon
and again...
The closest we get to a grocery store is in the draft where players have basically no choice when they are picked and by which team chooses them so GM's/scouts face a lot of criticism there when they blow picks... especially 1st rounders. Of course guessing/predicting how an 17/18 year old teenager is going to turn out when they are 22-30 years old is certainly an inexact science as well.
BudBundy
Registered User
- May 16, 2005
- 5,816
- 7,647
Look up a guy named Ron Caron with the Blues before you blame McNall too much for salary escalation. And if Pocklington hadn’t been such a dbag we would’ve got a few more years.
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