The Canucks Goaltending Thread Pt. I: Contracts, NTCs and Bears, oh my!

[Barney Gumble]

I don't find it unlikely the Sharks

Sharks already had Neimi under contract.

Flames? They just signed Hiller. And if they sign Miller, we sign Hiller. What's the rush?

Besides, a team outside of the West Coast (Wild? Leafs?) could've fielded a better offer to overcome the "wife factor", causing GMJB to do something like adding the limited NTC

Leafs already had Bernier under contract. Zero need for Miller.

Wild? Doubt they have the cap space and Minny is a fair number of time zones away - it's more than the wife (eg., child).

 

[Nuckles]

Honestly, I think some teams were prepared to do a lot worse. The whole season taken into account, Miller did pretty well in 2013-14 and he had played in front of a BAD Sabres squad over the last few years while posting pretty good individual numbers. $6M/3 years with a limited NTC seemed like his market value, but it's likely he could've gotten a longer term somewhere else.

I don't think the deal would be of any issue if he could be shipped off at will.

It was reported that he only wanted to play on the West coast/near California (for his wife), and considering which West coast teams needed goalies it appears we outbid ourselves...multiple times.

And besides that, yeah, he played great in Buffalo. But once he was moved to St. Louis (a top team) he was trash. .903SV% in 19 regular season games and .897SV% in 6 playoff games. That's a HUGE red flag to me. Does that mean he can only play well in Buffalo/the East?

That contract was far from market value for a 34 year old goalie. And I wouldn't call it a limited NTC, it's basically a full NTC. If he doesn't want to be traded he could list 5 teams that wouldn't never have interest in a goalie for the foreseeable future (Nashville, LA, Rangers, Montreal, New Jersey, Tampa, etc).

Yes, it wouldn't be a problem if he could be shipped off at will, but that contract is basically immoveable.

 

[Seattle Totems]

The problem isn't that we signed Miller its that we signed him to a bad deal when we had all the leverage. That's par for the course with Benning though. Time and time again he's ignored the market value and vastly overpaid to acquire players. Bottom line is that Miller would never have gotten the same money or term from another team. The fit just isn't there. He had a small list of teams that he would sign with and none of them needed or wanted his services.

Going forward who knows what will happen, but if they trade Lack I will not be happy.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Didn't want this blurb to get lost:

Murray pointed out that a big factor in Buffalo will be who ends up settling into the starting goaltender position once the Sabres are ready to lock into a starter.

Sabres still have a late 1st. Could this be a trade match (Lack)?

 

[Nuckles]

Didn't want this blurb to get lost:



Sabres still have a late 1st. Could this be a trade match (Lack)?

I have a hard time seeing Lack get a 1st with his contract status (one year away from UFA) and lack (hehehe) of experience.


This is just pathetic. We could end up moving Lack for not much, being stuck with a worse, aging goalie with a huge cap hit, and not having anyone to replace him in a few years. Stellar job Jim...

 

[DL44]

Excellent thread.

I think there are two primary questions:

!. Which is most likely of the three scenarios?
A. Trade one of the goalies in the summer
B. lose Markstrom for nothing
C. Come out of camp next year with three goalies


Could be a poll question....

IMO
C is very unlikely.
B will be determined if/when Markstrom gets 3 or 4 NHL games (I think he succeeds)
A is most likely.

Then, question 2. If one will be traded, which one?
A. Miller: best move but hardest to trade
B. Lack: Highest value in return, highest risk for future
C. Markstrom: Lowest value in return, risk for future unknown

It depends on how Lack does down the stretch here and in the playoffs..

It he takes another step and eliminates softies like he has in the last few games... than you move Markstrom and let Miller and Lack battle it out next season and we have a great tandem... and let the 82 decide who plays in the playoffs.

If earlier-this-season-Lack shows up where he's a complete wall, but let's in poorly timed weak ones... then you move him and get something for him and ride Miller for 2 yrs and hope Markstrom carries over his AHL work.... and hope that all is enough to bridge the gap till Demko arrives.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I have a hard time seeing Lack get a 1st with his contract status (one year away from UFA) and lack (hehehe) of experience.

Well, this assumes that he shows well the rest of the way. After that point, he'll have about 75-80 games of NHL experience. FWIW, Schneider was traded with 90 games NHL experience. Edit: Correction, 100 games counting playoff games.

Point being, there's enough games there to make a long-term call.

The contract status is an issue though, no doubt.

 

[Barney Gumble]

If earlier-this-season-Lack shows up where he's a complete wall, but let's in poorly timed weak ones...

Like how rock solid Miller was early on this season?

and ride Miller for 2 yrs and hope Markstrom carries over his AHL work.... and hope that all is enough to bridge the gap till Demko arrives.

 

[iceburg]

It depends on how Lack does down the stretch here and in the playoffs..

It he takes another step and eliminates softies like he has in the last few games... than you move Markstrom and let Miller and Lack battle it out next season and we have a great tandem... and let the 82 decide who plays in the playoffs.

If earlier-this-season-Lack shows up where he's a complete wall, but let's in poorly timed weak ones... then you move him and get something for him and ride Miller for 2 yrs and hope Markstrom carries over his AHL work.... and hope that all is enough to bridge the gap till Demko arrives.

Yeah, I was fast forwarding a little to the summer making the assumption that Lack would continue his hot play.
Moving Markstrom is definitely lower risk (in the short term) but it comes with lower value in return. I'm also not sure Miller would take kindly to splitting games with Lack, or that Lack wouldn't ride out the year until he's a UFA. Then they lose him for nothing. I really think one of Lack or Miller needs to go this summer to maximize assets in return.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I really think one of Lack or Miller needs to go this summer to maximize assets in return.

Miller isn't going anywhere with his contract (not to mention he's Benning big name signing). Lack is the far easier of the two to trade - and will net the larger return.

 

[Brain Sergeant]

Sabres still have a late 1st. Could this be a trade match (Lack)?

They have 2 Late Firsts (St. Louis and New York I)

 

[iceburg]

Miller isn't going anywhere with his contract (not to mention he's Benning big name signing). Lack is the far easier of the two to trade - and will net the larger return.

I can see a team taking a flyer on Miller now that there's only two years left on his deal. I think the biggest barrier to trading Miller is actually JB admitting he made a mistake with his first big move. I like JB but I didn't like the Miller deal with Lack being a UFA before Miller's term is up.

 

[Nuckles]

They have 2 Late Firsts (St. Louis and New York I)

They traded one of those picks to Winnipeg for Kane (whichever one is the later pick is going to the Jets).

 

[Seattle Totems]

Just saw Miller limping pretty bad in a food court. Same fast food place I saw Tanev at when he was injured few seasons ago. Canucks MRI clinic is close by.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks needed Miller to ensure playoffs. That's a wise investment.

Lack is positioned to become the starter (again).

Markstrom is unplayable (again).

Suppose Miller was a bridge signing, meant to cover until Lack is the clear starter. Suppose Lack finishes the season as the starter. This off-season Miller is the most portable goalie. He has cost certainty and is a known quantity. There are enough teams seeking to settle their goaltending to get an auction going. Miller should return useful picks from Edmonton or San Jose, no?

The NTC is no problem. Benning handed Garrison his walking papers and made him march. Miller's choice is, "continue to earn millions" or "throw a tantrum and waste his few remaining years". I know the tantrum option appeals to many on this board but it's childish and unrealistic.

A bigger obstacle is Miller's abilities on his return. Is it chronic? Will he be hampered? This is the only real concern. Lack is developing well. Markstrom is the AHL guy, this season.

 

[iceburg]

Canucks needed Miller to ensure playoffs. That's a wise investment.

Lack is positioned to become the starter (again).

Markstrom is unplayable (again).

Suppose Miller was a bridge signing, meant to cover until Lack is the clear starter. Suppose Lack finishes the season as the starter. This off-season Miller is the most portable goalie. He has cost certainty and is a known quantity. There are enough teams seeking to settle their goaltending to get an auction going. Miller should return useful picks from Edmonton or San Jose, no?

The NTC is no problem. Benning handed Garrison his walking papers and made him march. Miller's choice is, "continue to earn millions" or "throw a tantrum and waste his few remaining years". I know the tantrum option appeals to many on this board but it's childish and unrealistic.

A bigger obstacle is Miller's abilities on his return. Is it chronic? Will he be hampered? This is the only real concern. Lack is developing well. Markstrom is the AHL guy, this season.

You're making some big assumptions here....

Stating that Miller was a wise investment assumes there were no other options potentially for less money and term that would have been equally effective in getting the team to the playoffs.

If the limited NTC is worthless, why is it part of the contract? It has value. It directs management to seek trades from a short list. It's one thing for Benning to ask players he didn't sign to waive. It's a completely different situation to sign a guy to an NTC then a year later ask him to waive.

You're making a big leap to suggest that Markstrom can't yet play at this level based on an 8 minute sample. We don't know the answer until he's at least played a few games.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Miller posts a .913 SV% and the media praises the work he's done with the Canucks. Luongo's worst full year was a .913 SV% and he got ridden for it.

MFW

 

[vancityluongo]

Miller posts a .913 SV% and the media praises the work he's done with the Canucks. Luongo's worst full year was a .913 SV% and he got ridden for it.

MFW

Well one is a patriotic hero to his country and the other is a loser...wait..

Ideal scenarios are as follows: Markstrom is traded at the draft, Miller and Lack split next season with Eddie continuing to play the hard, important games while Miller gives him breaks by playing Edmonton; after the season Miller retires and Lack re-signs. Sign someone of the McBackup calibre while Demko and Erikkson hold the fort in Utica.

Scenario 2: Markstrom is traded at the draft, Miller and Lack split next season with Eddie continuing to play the hard, important games while Miller gives him breaks by playing Edmonton; after the season buy out the remaining season on Miller's contract, Lack re-signs. Sign someone of the McBackup calibre while Demko and Erikkson hold the fort in Utica.

 

[iceburg]

Well one is a patriotic hero to his country and the other is a loser...wait..

Ideal scenarios are as follows: Markstrom is traded at the draft, Miller and Lack split next season with Eddie continuing to play the hard, important games while Miller gives him breaks by playing Edmonton; after the season Miller retires and Lack re-signs. Sign someone of the McBackup calibre while Demko and Erikkson hold the fort in Utica.

Scenario 2: Markstrom is traded at the draft, Miller and Lack split next season with Eddie continuing to play the hard, important games while Miller gives him breaks by playing Edmonton; after the season buy out the remaining season on Miller's contract, Lack re-signs. Sign someone of the McBackup calibre while Demko and Erikkson hold the fort in Utica.

6 million reasons why that won't happen.

 

[tc 23]

Miller posts a .913 SV% and the media praises the work he's done with the Canucks. Luongo's worst full year was a .913 SV% and he got ridden for it.

MFW

It's pretty laughable.

 

[BlackAces]

It was reported that he only wanted to play on the West coast/near California (for his wife), and considering which West coast teams needed goalies it appears we outbid ourselves...multiple times.

And besides that, yeah, he played great in Buffalo. But once he was moved to St. Louis (a top team) he was trash. .903SV% in 19 regular season games and .897SV% in 6 playoff games. That's a HUGE red flag to me. Does that mean he can only play well in Buffalo/the East?

That contract was far from market value for a 34 year old goalie. And I wouldn't call it a limited NTC, it's basically a full NTC. If he doesn't want to be traded he could list 5 teams that wouldn't never have interest in a goalie for the foreseeable future (Nashville, LA, Rangers, Montreal, New Jersey, Tampa, etc).

Yes, it wouldn't be a problem if he could be shipped off at will, but that contract is basically immoveable.

Why? Doesn't it make more sense that a veteran who was familiar with his surroundings in Buffalo found it tough to adjust to a new team? He doesn't just go from .923 to .903 because he's in a different conference.

 

[25Bieksa3]

I don't think Benning is going to get rid of Lack over Markstrom. Markstrom hasn't proved anything yet and no one else in our pipeline is ready.

Moreover Lack hasn't earned huge dollars anyways, I can see him pulling in 2.5per for 2 yrs until Miller goes.

 

[MarkMM]

Canucks needed Miller to ensure playoffs. That's a wise investment.

Lack is positioned to become the starter (again).

Markstrom is unplayable (again).

Suppose Miller was a bridge signing, meant to cover until Lack is the clear starter. Suppose Lack finishes the season as the starter. This off-season Miller is the most portable goalie. He has cost certainty and is a known quantity. There are enough teams seeking to settle their goaltending to get an auction going. Miller should return useful picks from Edmonton or San Jose, no?

The NTC is no problem. Benning handed Garrison his walking papers and made him march. Miller's choice is, "continue to earn millions" or "throw a tantrum and waste his few remaining years". I know the tantrum option appeals to many on this board but it's childish and unrealistic.

A bigger obstacle is Miller's abilities on his return. Is it chronic? Will he be hampered? This is the only real concern. Lack is developing well. Markstrom is the AHL guy, this season.

Yeah, no. Just because one guy in Garrison was willing to waive it doesn't mean we can magically assume NTC's are suddenly meaningless to players. See Sundin, Mats - Toronto