The call

[letsgoavs1921]

Yes I know a couple days have passed. Been busy, so posting now

I don’t want to get into a discussion of whether or not it was the difference in the game. We’ll never know and everyone can draw their own conclusions. What I want to discuss is what exactly was ruled and did they get it right?

I know the ruling was whether or not he tagged up. I have asked a question to multiple people who cover the avalanche on Twitter and other people and no one has been able to answer me. If you are off side when the puck enters the zone, and you have to tag up, do you have to get both feet back to the blue line or just one? If the answer is both been I think the call was right and I can live with it. If the answer is one, then they got it wrong. Well, they either got it wrong (looks like part of one skate was on line), or at the very least there is NO WAY to tell and you have to stick with the call on the ice. Nobody can say with 100% certainty that his skate was not touching the blue line. The altitude crew broke it down perfectly and anyone who zooms in on that part of the ice when the park cross the line can see that it looks like it is touching the blue line, but at the very least you cannot tell. When a play goes to review there are three possible outcomes: One is they see enough evidence to confirm the call on the ice. One is they see enough evidence to overturn the call on the ice. A third is they can’t tell for sure either way and have to stick with the call on the ice. This play either falls into the category of confirming he is touching the blue line, or can’t tell (this is where it belongs). But certainly not definitive evidence to overturn.

Wondering what others are thinking. And would love a definitive answer to what the rule is on tag up

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[AllAboutAvs]

Yes I know a couple days have passed. Been busy, so posting now

I don’t want to get into a discussion of whether or not it was the difference in the game. We’ll never know and everyone can draw their own conclusions. What I want to discuss is what exactly was ruled and did they get it right?

I know the ruling was whether or not he tagged up. I have asked a question to multiple people who cover the avalanche on Twitter and other people and no one has been able to answer me. If you are off side when the puck enters the zone, and you have to tag up, do you have to get both feet back to the blue line or just one? If the answer is both been I think the call was right and I can live with it. If the answer is one, then they got it wrong. Well, they either got it wrong (looks like part of one skate was on line), or at the very least there is NO WAY to tell and you have to stick with the call on the ice. Nobody can say with 100% certainty that his skate was not touching the blue line. The altitude crew broke it down perfectly and anyone who zooms in on that part of the ice when the park cross the line can see that it looks like it is touching the blue line, but at the very least you cannot tell. When a play goes to review there are three possible outcomes: One is they see enough evidence to confirm the call on the ice. One is they see enough evidence to overturn the call on the ice. A third is they can’t tell for sure either way and have to stick with the call on the ice. This play either falls into the category of confirming he is touching the blue line, or can’t tell (this is where it belongs). But certainly not definitive evidence to overturn.

Wondering what others are thinking. And would love a definitive answer to what the rule is on tag up

A few people already answered you. You only have to touch the blue line with one skate. I know it's a bit confusing but when entering the offensive zone you need both skates inside the zone past the blue line to be considered in but you only need one skate on the blue line to be considered out.

 

[MarkT]

So given that it is one skate, then we can definitely say that it was an incorrect call. It should have no been called inclusive or a good goal. To me this goes way beyond just a blown call or a bad judgement call like you get on goalie interference or during live play. This was cut and dry and they got it wrong. I can't even blame incompetence here, because there's no way everyone who looked at that agreed he definitely never touched the blue line given how close he was. Honestly, the only conclusion I can come to is the mistake was made either intentionally or due to bias.

Maybe it was something to do with the refs favoring the Sharks (Jumbo Joe's last run? Veteran team? Better TV market?) or being biased against the Avs (8th seed? Too young? Don't deserve to be here, not important enough market?). Or maybe it's just Colin Wilson, because it seems like he had more goals called back this year than the rest of the team combined. I can't find any stats on it, but I can' definitely remember watching that look on his face at least 3 or4 times where he's waiting to find out if a goal he scored actually counted. So maybe Colin Wilson has done something to piss of the refs or the situation room in Toronto.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Let me tell you a story about the call that changed our destiny. We were so close to win but it ended in misery.

 

[letsgoavs1921]

A few people already answered you. You only have to touch the blue line with one skate. I know it's a bit confusing but when entering the offensive zone you need both skates inside the zone past the blue line to be considered in but you only need one skate on the blue line to be considered out.

Got it thanks. So they blew it

Hard to understand how someone who’s job is to
watch a slow motion replay and apply a rule could get it wrong. Obviously they couldn’t definitively say he wasn’t touching the blue line, so maybe they didn’t know the rule and thought it was both skates?

Crazy

 

[ASmileyFace]

This has been dicussed to death here and on the main boards but all I'm going to say is, "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

The NHL got the call wrong, simply because they got it wrong. Not because it's Joe's last run, or they are biased against the Avs, or any of these other conspiracies. They just got it wrong and at this point we have to just suck it up and move on to next season with a chip on our shoulder.

 

[MarkT]

This has been dicussed to death here and on the main boards but all I'm going to say is, "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

I actually live by that quote a lot of the time. I just don't think incompetence explain this adequately. I think they saw what they wanted to see.

 

[letsgoavs1921]

This has been dicussed to death here and on the main boards but all I'm going to say is, "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

The NHL got the call wrong, simply because they got it wrong. Not because it's Joe's last run, or they are biased against the Avs, or any of these other conspiracies. They just got it wrong and at this point we have to just suck it up and move on to next season with a chip on our shoulder.

How? How do you get that wrong?

I understand getting something wrong at live speed. How do you watch a replay and say something is 100% certain when it isn’t? How?

 

[missionAvs]

They made the wrong call. It happens. We have to move on from it. The league is always incompetent with regards to video review and officiating in general it seems. I honestly place more blame on Landy taking his sweet old time getting off and not having the presence of mind to at least put his left foot clearly over the blue line. Nevertheless, I love the attitude he had after the game in taking ownership for the "clumsy mistake". Shows that he holds himself accountable which is IMO a very strong leadership trait.

 

[PAZ]

It was the wrong call and Sharks benefited from it. However, they still were the better team the first two periods and were able the wither the push by the Avs in the 3rd.

Overall, it was a game-changing call but it is what it is and we just need to move on. Hard to be too upset after making it to game 7 of the semis and having the #4 and the #16 picks in the draft. Ideally we'd be playing in the conference finals with the #1/2 pick, but this season was still a tremendous success.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Got it thanks. So they blew it

Hard to understand how someone who’s job is to
watch a slow motion replay and apply a rule could get it wrong. Obviously they couldn’t definitively say he wasn’t touching the blue line, so maybe they didn’t know the rule and thought it was both skates?

Crazy

Yeah they blew it because there is CONCLUSIVE evidence that he tagged up as the toe of his skate was clearly on the blue line while the puck AND all the other Avs players were in the neutral zone. On the other hand there is no CONCLUSIVE evidence that he put himself back offside before the puck entered the zone again. There is just no way the still picture is clear enough to prove his skate was off the blue line when the puck entered. Even the Sportsnet panel were not completely sure because they were saying things like "I think his skate is off the line". When you have to use words like "I think" then obviously it is not conclusive and therefore it shouldn't be overturned.

They blew it but they will never admit it.

 

[timothy jimothy]

Kind of off on a tangent, but has this team ever been on the right side of an offsides challenge? I actually can't recall if we have or not.

I can count 3 times off the top of my head that we've been screwed on these types of calls. This most recent one, the St. Louis one last season that could've been costly if we lost game 82 (the NHL even apologized for that one), and another one against Chicago.

It actually feels like that Duchene offside put a curse on us.

 

[Balthazar]

Let me tell you a story about the call that changed our destiny. We were so close to win but it ended in misery.

The call on Pavelski in the 1st series may have changed our destiny as well.

 

[avs1dacup]

IMO the league will never admit they were wrong on this call, but they'll make changes in the off season that reflect their acknowledgement of it. No matter what they do or don't do, they look incompetent. But they look even worse if they come out and say they f***ed up. It looks incredibly bad and unprofessional to have to apologize to two teams in two important game 7s, especially when the beneficiary of said horrible calls is the same team. If they were confident they made the right call, they'd have released video and photos evidence of such with an explanation more than "Landeskog didn't tag up". I'm over it, but it's just yet another disturbing trend in the league that they can't afford to have if they want to keep attracting new fans to the game.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Kind of off on a tangent, but has this team ever been on the right side of an offsides challenge? I actually can't recall if we have or not.

I can count 3 times off the top of my head that we've been screwed on these types of calls. This most recent one, the St. Louis one last season that could've been costly if we lost game 82 (the NHL even apologized for that one), and another one against Chicago.

It actually feels like that Duchene offside put a curse on us.

Avs literally made the playoffs last year on a blown offsides no call against the blues game 82

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

They got it wrong. Simple as that. But it is what it is and we just need to move on and get over it. We dont know if we would have won the game or not still or what would have happened after the fact.



No point in crying over spilled milk.

 

[timothy jimothy]

Avs literally made the playoffs last year on a blown offsides no call against the blues game 82

Oh I forgot about this for some reason. The only thing I remember from that game was Gabe's empty netter, probably just really excited to be in the playoffs and blocked this out. NHL determined this was inconclusive after 7 minutes of review. St. Louis never really recovered from it and the final score was 5-2 with 2 of those being empty net goals.

This feels like I'm putting on a tin foil hat here, but is it possible the NHL situation room was scared of making this mistake again in favour of the Avs in a deciding final game, so they erred too much on the side against them in the game 7 call? I kind of remember coming away from the game 82 call feeling it was a make-up call for the blown offsides challenge earlier in the season against St. Louis.

Anyways, bottomline is that this is another huge blemish on a very consequential game. The NHL needs to take a serious look at this rule. We can't keep letting this happen every year.

 

[Patagonia]

NHL simply made the wrong call.

Best revenge is success. AVs move on and build towards a better future. They have 5 picks in 3 rounds. Need to add a 2C. Resolve the situation with Barrie. Prepare for the expansion draft.

Still lots to do and future remains very bright. Dwelling on the bad call will not change when they should just move forward.

 

[MarkT]

I fully agree with the "move on" idea because obviously there's nothing to be done about it and it's in the past. But it's not like this was months ago. This just happened last week and when you've been heavily invested in something, and it's taken away from you unjustly, then it's perfectly reasonable to be bothered by it and want to talk about it for quite some time afterward. "Moving on" too soon after something like this happens can cause people to never really talk it out and come to terms with how they feel about it. Yeah, it's just a hockey game, but for a lot of us it represented countless hours of thought, emotion, hopes, dreams, and wasted time. When a season ends due to being outplayed or a couple of players poor performance, it hard enough to deal with. When it ends based at least in part on a blatantly bad call by the officials, it's that much harder.

So yeah, maybe hold off on the "move on" comments until everyone has had the chance to have their say and the topic burns itself out naturally.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

The way I see it , it was a bad goal reversal. However, the avs had almost the entire 3rd period to score one goal to tie the game up and didn’t get it done. It the goal had been reversed in the waning minutes of the 3rd I’d be more upset, but the avs just didn’t do what they needed to do after the bad call

 

[ASmileyFace]

The way I see it , it was a bad goal reversal. However, the avs had almost the entire 3rd period to score one goal to tie the game up and didn’t get it done. It the goal had been reversed in the waning minutes of the 3rd I’d be more upset, but the avs just didn’t do what they needed to do after the bad call

Going into the third tied at 2 vs being down 1-3 really changes the game. The Avs dominated that third period, but the Sharks sat back and played a 1-3-1 turtle. If that period starts tied, who knows how it plays out.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Based on the replays of what we saw on TV, and the still photos we saw elsewhere, the call should not have been overturned because there wasn't conclusive evidence either way.

Does Toronto have additional video or photos that the home viewers don't have though? That is the only rational explanation I can think of on why the call was overturned.

 

[chet1926]

Oh I forgot about this for some reason. The only thing I remember from that game was Gabe's empty netter, probably just really excited to be in the playoffs and blocked this out. NHL determined this was inconclusive after 7 minutes of review. St. Louis never really recovered from it and the final score was 5-2 with 2 of those being empty net goals.

This feels like I'm putting on a tin foil hat here, but is it possible the NHL situation room was scared of making this mistake again in favour of the Avs in a deciding final game, so they erred too much on the side against them in the game 7 call? I kind of remember coming away from the game 82 call feeling it was a make-up call for the blown offsides challenge earlier in the season against St. Louis.

Anyways, bottomline is that this is another huge blemish on a very consequential game. The NHL needs to take a serious look at this rule. We can't keep letting this happen every year.

Even that call is tougher than the one they blew in game 7. It's debatable that puck fully went out of the zone. It's really close, would have been ok with that call going either way.

The game 7 call was just simply wrong. There is no evidence that Landy didn't touch the line. Every angle looks like he is pretty clearly on the line. It was simply the wrong call.

Friedman even partially alludes to it being a bad call in his 31 thoughts. When he stated that a ref told him that Landy was going to get the rest of the calls his entire career by the way he handled it. Which shows that refs understand how bad of a call it was.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

The trip on MacKs breakaway and San Jose going back the other way for a 2 on 1 tells you all you need to know.

The refs don't like to have goals scored as the result of a blown call. If you trip a guy in the defensive zone and ice the puck you may get away with it. You trip a guy in the defensive zone and it looks like your team is going to get a break out with numbers its almost always a penalty.

The fact that they didn't find some other stupid excuse to stop the play was surprising. They didn't care a super obvious blown call could cost a goal the other way.

Its a stupid way to officiate but its how the NHL has always operated.

 

[Pokecheque]

I still say it's a dumb rule that needs to be eradicated or at the very least curtailed to the point where only egregiously missed off-side calls are taken back. None of this incessant parsing and skate-in-the-air garbage.

THAT SAID...there is no excuse for Landeskog to lazily stand there while play is going on, nor is there any excuse for the players on the bench to sit there and do nothing. Get. The Hell. Off. The Ice. That is Michael Dean Perry-level bullshit right there. I will give Landy full marks for acknowledging his f***-up, but make no mistake...he f***ed up, and he knows it. And that's absolutely inexcusable for the guy wearing the C to be doing that in a Game 7 with everything on the line. And this isn't the first time the Avalanche as a team have been dinged for a slow/lazy/disorganized change. If there's one thing Bednar and his staff better focus on cleaning up for next season, it's that.