The best performers in their 30's

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Kimmo Timonen. Really good but not well known in his 20s.

 

[The Panther]

I would be more impressed by someone who rounded out his game in his 30s, and/or took on newfound roles or mentorship, rather than just stat-padding a lot in an undeserved vacuum (like Messier).

So, you're arguing that Messier's entire first Rangers' stint, including a 1st and 2nd-place Hart trophy finish, a 101 points-per-82 average at age 30-36, his team's having two 1st-overall finishes in three seasons, and the 1994 Stanley Cup with Mess scoring 30 playoff points age 33, is "stat-padding... in an undeserved vacuum"???

 

[sr edler]

So, you're arguing that Messier's entire first Rangers' stint, including a 1st and 2nd-place Hart trophy finish, a 101 points-per-82 average at age 30-36, his team's having two 1st-overall finishes in three seasons, and the 1994 Stanley Cup with Mess scoring 30 playoff points age 33, is "stat-padding... in an undeserved vacuum"???

Messier's early Rangers stint 91–94 he was still a high-end impact player obviously, but I don't buy the 1996 2nd in Hart voting thing, firstly because Hart voting is inherently flawed and secondly because that team had become a country club, though the 1997 version with Gretzky was even worse in terms of country clubbing. Can't believe some people actually thought (at the time) that team could challenge for a SC.

 

[MadLuke]

but I don't buy the 1996 2nd in Hart voting thing

Even if one do not think he should have beat Lindros and that Jagr was simply not possible to be the MVP on a team with Lemieux, he was still the leader of a good team that beat a good Mtl team in the playoff, having a very solid season.

The guy made team Canada that summer.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Jason Arnott was very solid in his 30s

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Messier's early Rangers stint 91–94 he was still a high-end impact player obviously, but I don't buy the 1996 2nd in Hart voting thing, firstly because Hart voting is inherently flawed and secondly because that team had become a country club, though the 1997 version with Gretzky was even worse in terms of country clubbing. Can't believe some people actually thought (at the time) that team could challenge for a SC.

I also found that puzzling. Messier finishing 2nd can probably be explained by his reputation, combined with a ton of vote splitting:

• Jagr was probably the 2nd best player in the NHL that year, but he wasn't going to earn a lot of votes with Lemieux easily winning the Hart. (Nor would Francis - 4th in the league).
• Sakic and Forsberg both had strong seasons (3rd and 5th in scoring), but they probably split votes with each other
• Kariya and Selanne also had very good years (tied for 7th in scoring), but also split votes
• Overall, seven of the top eight scorers came from three teams (Pittsburgh, Colorado and Anaheim). The only exception was Lindros, who finished 3rd, which seems about right.
• Fedorov had a very good season (Selke trophy & T-9th in scoring). He ranked 5th in Hart voting. That feels about right. Fairly or not, he (presumably) was being compared to his landmark 1994 campaign.
• Hasek was pretty clearly the best goalie in the league, but the Sabres missed the playoffs, so he didn't get much consideration for the Hart or Vezina.
• Chelios and Bourque both had very strong seasons, but they're defensemen, so they got virtually no Hart consideration.
• One player who didn't get nearly enough support - Theo Fleury. He willed those Flames into the playoffs. He didn't get a single vote.

Messier had a good season, of course, but it's rare for a forward who ranked T-13th in scoring to finish 2nd for the Hart (especially because, at this stage in his career, Messier wasn't the two-way or physical force he used to be).

(For what it's worth, if I had a ballot, I'd probably vote something like 1 - Lemieux, 2 - Lindros, 3 - Chelios, 4 - Jagr, 5 - Bourque, 6 - Hasek, 7 - Sakic, 8 - Fedorov, 9 - Kariya and 10 - Fleury).

 

[Michael Farkas]

I'm not someone that goes to bat for Messier often...but he needs to be on your MVP ballot somewhere that year. He played with a lot of enthusiasm that year for the first time in years...

Though, I think they sort of turned him loose a bit...he was a center-in-name-only kind of...I think Graves and Verbeek did a lot of the dirty work. But that New York team wasn't very good. It was a top six and Leetch vs all. Everyone else went out there to just try not to be a minus until Mess was ready to go again...

 

[The Panther]

I think the issue is not whether Messier deserved a 2nd place Hart finish, but rather whether he was still a great player after 1994. Obviously, he was.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Re-post from more than half-a-decade ago. Can't quote because thread closed...

Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 3

The leading playoff scorers during the first 10 years of Potvin's career: Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

forums.hfboards.com

"Best NHL Careers after age 30​

D'ja ever think about this one? First place is no suspense- it's Gordie Howe by a continent. How about second place, though? Doesn't Nicklas Lidström have a great case for this one? After age 30, he went...

AS: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2
Norris: 6x
Oh, yeah- and a Smythe/Cup, too.
(not to belabor the point, but he also missed a season due to the Lockout and still did what he did.)

He's one of those rare guys of whom it can be said- you could take his career, split it in two, and have two first-ballot Hall-of-Famers.

If you could get a player on a "lifetime-services" contract, wouldn't this guy absolutely be on your short-list? A perennial All-Star whom you can count on to stay healthy and play smart, productive, percentage hockey up to and including age 40?!"