The Bentley Brothers

[TANK200]

On almost every all-time ranking list that I have ever seen, Max Bentley is ranked above his brother, Doug. I, being far too young to have seen either of the two play, find it difficult why they seem to ranked like this.

Throughout his career, Doug was seemingly the better offensive player of the two, having a significantly better points per game average. In addition, neither is exactly known for his defensive play. Max Bentley's playoff numbers are better than his brother's, but he also had the opportunity to play in the post season more often, and for better teams in the second half of his career.

It seems to me that players who play on lesser teams (ie: Doug Bentley, Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perrault) tend to get underrated in the creation of all-time lists. Is Doug Bentley underrated in comparison to his brother, or am I missing something?

Click to read more...

 

[Ogopogo*]

I have Max Bentley at #42 all time and Doug at #47. Their careers are VERY close when you compare them, Max has a slight edge because he had slightly more consideration for the Hart trophy and three cups. The difference between them is almost like splitting hairs.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I think Max was a cut above Doug offensively. Max's playoff numbers are incredible. People talk about Teeder Kennedy being a great clutch scorer, and he was, but Max's offensive clip (46 points in 51 games) is incredible for that time. It's almost as impressive as Boom Boom Geoffrion's eight straight 10-point playoffs in the O6 era. And that playoff performance is what sets Max apart.

The one thing about Doug is his defensive play. I think Doug Bentley is a mirror image of Toe Blake: an undersized LW with outstanding speed, hockey sense and creativity, but also great defensive awareness.

Also worth noting about Doug is that he was named the greatest Chicago hockey player in the first half of the 20th century, ahead of Max, Bill Mosienko, Earl Seibert and a host of others who played for the Hawks in their infancy.

Max was fortunate enough to be dealt to Toronto, where he got to display his big-game abilities. Doug was never so fortunate. Chicago was a mess in the late 40s. The absence of a draft, and the rules of the day, made it hard for teams to improve. And there wasn't player movement like there was now.

Incidentally, my grandmother grew up watching Doug play hockey in Moose Jaw before Doug struck it big, and she knew all three of the Bentley boys. (Max, Doug and their lesser-known brother, Reg).

 

[Dark Shadows]

I think I am among the only ones who rate Doug Bentley ahead of Max.

I have them 65-66

I think Max was a cut above Doug offensively. Max's playoff numbers are incredible. People talk about Teeder Kennedy being a great clutch scorer, and he was, but Max's offensive clip (46 points in 51 games) is incredible for that time. It's almost as impressive as Boom Boom Geoffrion's eight straight 10-point playoffs in the O6 era. And that playoff performance is what sets Max apart.


The one thing about Doug is his defensive play. I think Doug Bentley is a mirror image of Toe Blake: an undersized LW with outstanding speed, hockey sense and creativity, but also great defensive awareness.

Also worth noting about Doug is that he was named the greatest Chicago hockey player in the first half of the 20th century, ahead of Max, Bill Mosienko, Earl Seibert and a host of others who played for the Hawks in their infancy.

Max was fortunate enough to be dealt to Toronto, where he got to display his big-game abilities. Doug was never so fortunate. Chicago was a mess in the late 40s. The absence of a draft, and the rules of the day, made it hard for teams to improve. And there wasn't player movement like there was now.

Incidentally, my grandmother grew up watching Doug play hockey in Moose Jaw before Doug struck it big, and she knew all three of the Bentley boys. (Max, Doug and their lesser-known brother, Reg).

The bolded parts are big reasons why I consider Doug a slight notch above Max.

Instead of bringing up all the same points, ill just quote myself

I personally rank Doug Bentley ahead of Max. Doug was far more defensively responsible, and the offensive gap between them was almost insignificant(Max was simply flashier and has more dangling skills. Results from the two players however were similar).

Exchange Max and Doug on that leafs Dynasty, and Doug has the cups. Doug has three 1st team all star births and a 2nd team up against Max Bentley's one 1st and one 2nd. Max has the Hart + 3rd and 4th place finish, Doug the Runner up, 3rd place and 4th place finish.

Max Bentley:
Goals
1942-43 NHL 26 (8)
1945-46 NHL 31 (2)
1946-47 NHL 29 (4)
1947-48 NHL 26 (5)
1949-50 NHL 23 (9)
1950-51 NHL 21 (10)
1951-52 NHL 24 (9)

Assists
1942-43 NHL 44 (2)
1945-46 NHL 30 (2)
1946-47 NHL 43 (2)
1947-48 NHL 28 (9)
1950-51 NHL 41 (3)

Points
1942-43 NHL 70 (3)
1945-46 NHL 61 (1)
1946-47 NHL 72 (1)
1947-48 NHL 54 (5)
1950-51 NHL 62 (3)

Honors
1945-46 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)
1946-47 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)

Career games played: 646
Career Goals: 245
Career Points: 544

Doug Bentley:
Goals
1942-43 NHL 33 (1)
1943-44 NHL 38 (1)
1948-49 NHL 23 (6)

Assists
1942-43 NHL 40 (5)
1943-44 NHL 39 (9)
1945-46 NHL 21 (9)
1946-47 NHL 34 (4)
1947-48 NHL 37 (1)
1948-49 NHL 43 (1)
1949-50 NHL 33 (5)

Points
1942-43 NHL 73 (1)
1943-44 NHL 77 (2)
1946-47 NHL 55 (6)
1947-48 NHL 57 (3)
1948-49 NHL 66 (2)
1949-50 NHL 53 (7)

Honors
1942-43 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)
1943-44 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)
1946-47 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)
1948-49 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)

Career games played: 566
Career goals: 219
Career points: 543

Doug Put up almost the same amount of points in almost 100 less games, despite playing on an inferior team later(Max was traded to a Dynasty)

And again, their playoff record is very very circumstantial. Doug continued to play on a terrible Blackhawks squad because he was more valued to the team. Max was transfered to a Dynasty Leaf squad with Syl Apps, Turk Broda, Ted Kennedy............

Its one case where I honestly feel that if you trade their places, Doug has the cups, while Max does not.

Doug was also the defensive Rock on the pony line and was aggressive and mean at backchecking despite his small size, while Max was not defensively responsible(just prettier to watch) and was a lady bing winner instead of aggressive and fearless like his brother.

Their Hart record is very similar too.
Max has a 1st, 3rd and 4th placing, Doug has a 2nd, 3rd and 4th placing.

Its one of those great mysteries. I want to know why people voted Max so far ahead of Doug when I could not even Justify putting him ahead to begin with.

In fact, I erroneously forgot to put Max on my original list, but Doug made it

 

[pappyline]

Agree that they should be rated closer. I am guilty here too as I had Max at 28 & Doug at 70. They ended up at 46 & 90. Max gets rated higher for the following reasons:

1.Max had 2 AR's to Doug's one.
2.Max won a Hart
3.Max played for the Leafs
4.Max got a chance to shine in the playoffs
5.Max quarterbacked the Leafs powerplay.
6.Max was flashier-The Dipsy doodle Dandy from delisle.
7.Max was on a cup winner
8.Max was traded for 6 capable players.

I have seen some clips from a hilite reel from the 1950 AS game. Clips of Max show his stickhandling ability & his drive to the net. Doug was also in that game but didn't make the hilites.

I think Max was probably the superior athlete but it should be much closer than most ratings show.

 

[raleh]

I think some of it comes from Max's extra style points. Max may have been the best stick handler of all time. In the same way Denis Savard gets rated higher than a lot of guys with similar numbers and ability, the way Max put up those numbers is one of the first things people will talk about. I get the feeling that if you could get your hands on highlight reels from that time period, there would be a lot of Max walking through entire teams that are very similar to that one Savard clip where he burns the entire Oiler team. Add to that the fact that he played on those great Leaf teams and had a big game warrior mentality that we never got to see from Doug (regardless of the reasons), and there you have it.

 

[pappyline]

I think some of it comes from Max's extra style points. Max may have been the best stick handler of all time. In the same way Denis Savard gets rated higher than a lot of guys with similar numbers and ability, the way Max put up those numbers is one of the first things people will talk about. I get the feeling that if you could get your hands on highlight reels from that time period, there would be a lot of Max walking through entire teams that are very similar to that one Savard clip where he burns the entire Oiler team. Add to that the fact that he played on those great Leaf teams and had a big game warrior mentality that we never got to see from Doug (regardless of the reasons), and there you have it.

Certainly style has a lot to do with it. I also think the big trade has a lot to do with it. Trading all those high calibre players for Max was a big deal. They could have gone for Doug but they went for Max. I know Leafs wanted a centre but Doug also played some centre & made the 2nd AS team as centre in 1949. The trade to Leafs actually hurt Max's stats as he had to share ice time with Apps & Kennedy.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Certainly style has a lot to do with it. I also think the big trade has a lot to do with it. Trading all those high calibre players for Max was a big deal. They could have gone for Doug but they went for Max. I know Leafs wanted a centre but Doug also played some centre & made the 2nd AS team as centre in 1949. The trade to Leafs actually hurt Max's stats as he had to share ice time with Apps & Kennedy.

According to the accounts I read(I am looking for the links now as we had this conversation recently), The Hawks were set on keeping Doug, and the leafs wanted a winger, not a center, to play with Kennedy or Aps. They had no idea Aps was going to retire to pursue a marketing job a year later.

I have no idea if those links are accurate, but it seems logical based on looking at their depth at center with Aps and Kennedy.

 

[pappyline]

According to the accounts I read(I am looking for the links now as we had this conversation recently), The Hawks were set on keeping Doug, and the leafs wanted a winger, not a center, to play with Kennedy or Aps. They had no idea Aps was going to retire to pursue a marketing job a year later.

I have no idea if those links are accurate, but it seems logical based on looking at their depth at center with Aps and Kennedy.

Interesting. I would like to see those links. I always thought that Smythe was big on strength down centre & that is why he went after Max even though he already had Apps & Kennedy.

 

[TANK200]

I think Max was a cut above Doug offensively. Max's playoff numbers are incredible. People talk about Teeder Kennedy being a great clutch scorer, and he was, but Max's offensive clip (46 points in 51 games) is incredible for that time. It's almost as impressive as Boom Boom Geoffrion's eight straight 10-point playoffs in the O6 era. And that playoff performance is what sets Max apart.

The one thing about Doug is his defensive play. I think Doug Bentley is a mirror image of Toe Blake: an undersized LW with outstanding speed, hockey sense and creativity, but also great defensive awareness.

Also worth noting about Doug is that he was named the greatest Chicago hockey player in the first half of the 20th century, ahead of Max, Bill Mosienko, Earl Seibert and a host of others who played for the Hawks in their infancy.

Max was fortunate enough to be dealt to Toronto, where he got to display his big-game abilities. Doug was never so fortunate. Chicago was a mess in the late 40s. The absence of a draft, and the rules of the day, made it hard for teams to improve. And there wasn't player movement like there was now.

Incidentally, my grandmother grew up watching Doug play hockey in Moose Jaw before Doug struck it big, and she knew all three of the Bentley boys. (Max, Doug and their lesser-known brother, Reg).

I never realized that Doug Bentley was an effective defensive player. I was under the impression that both brothers were offensive minded players. Nice to learn something new.

Makes you wonder how the guy who had better offensive numbers and was better defensively could be considered worse overall. I guess that being on the Leafs dynasty must have given him more media hype.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Interesting. I would like to see those links. I always thought that Smythe was big on strength down centre & that is why he went after Max even though he already had Apps & Kennedy.

I am having a hard time relocating them.

It could be that you are correct in your assessment. I just see it differently and those links reinforced my belief.

Sigh. I am typing so many different combinations into google to find them again.....

I never realized that Doug Bentley was an effective defensive player. I was under the impression that both brothers were offensive minded players. Nice to learn something new.

Makes you wonder how the guy who had better offensive numbers and was better defensively could be considered worse overall. I guess that being on the Leafs dynasty must have given him more media hype.

More playoff time with a great team instead of a Mediocre one is a big difference.

I still say they are razor close, but I give Doug the advantage based on the analysis post I posted earlier.

 

[Big Phil]

Max > Doug. Just my thought. Max had a higher peak value and wicked playoff numbers. Doug has no Cups and only one decent playoff season where it was clear the Habs were going to beat them. Similar careers in the regular season but I have always been one to reward a player who DID come through with what he was blessed with rather than the projection of "well if only he were on a better team......." you cant penalize a player for having great teammates with him. EIther way Doug was still a great player even on a worse team, lets not forget that

 

[Dark Shadows]

Max > Doug. Just my thought. Max had a higher peak value and wicked playoff numbers. Doug has no Cups and only one decent playoff season where it was clear the Habs were going to beat them. Similar careers in the regular season but I have always been one to reward a player who DID come through with what he was blessed with rather than the projection of "well if only he were on a better team......." you cant penalize a player for having great teammates with him. EIther way Doug was still a great player even on a worse team, lets not forget that

Not me. Playing on a better team meant everything in this case. The brothers were so close you could barely separate them while they played together. In fact, Doug had an equal to better playoff year with Chicago in 43-44 than any year Max had in Toronto, despite not winning the cup.

But that Chicago team could barely get out of the first round most years even when Max was there, if it could even make the playoffs at all. His numbers look almost identical to Doug's when playing on that bottom feeding team. 7 points in 11 games for Max in Chicago.

Doug, while roughly identical offensively to Max, was better defensively and much more complete a player.


Doug put up almost the same regular season numbers in 100 less games, Doug better defensively, almost identical in Hart voting, and the only real difference is one got traded to a Dynasty where he was able to further his totals.

 

[BM67]

Not me. Playing on a better team meant everything in this case. The brothers were so close you could barely separate them while they played together. In fact, Doug had an equal to better playoff year with Chicago in 43-44 than any year Max had in Toronto, despite not winning the cup.

But that Chicago team could barely get out of the first round most years even when Max was there, if it could even make the playoffs at all. His numbers look almost identical to Doug's when playing on that bottom feeding team. 7 points in 11 games for Max in Chicago.

Doug, while roughly identical offensively to Max, was better defensively and much more complete a player.


Doug put up almost the same regular season numbers in 100 less games, Doug better defensively, almost identical in Hart voting, and the only real difference is one got traded to a Dynasty where he was able to further his totals.

Let's look at the years they played together in Chicago, 41-43 & 46-47. This leaves out Doug's big year in 43-44.

Player|GP|G|A|Pts|GP|G|A|Pts
Doug Bentley|223|93|129|222|12|1|4|5
Max Bentley|229|106|144|250|11|4|3|7

It seems pretty clear that Doug's numbers only compare so well to Max's because of the one big season during a "war year". Note that Doug scored just over half of his career playoff points in the first round of the 44 playoffs vs Detroit (7-2-9 vs 2-6-8). Of course some highly ranked Canadiens were also putting up some big numbers vs Toronto at the same time, 28 points for the Punch Line.

I agree that Doug should be rated closer to Max than he is in general, but I can't really see ranking him ahead of him.

Here are their "vs #2" numbers:

Player|TG|HG|H3G|CAG|TA|HA|H3A|CAA|TP|HP|H3P|CAP
Max Bentley|7.994681|1|2.833333|0.666|7.790531|1|3|0.649|8.55187|1.173077|3.159384|0.713
Doug Bentley|7.309365|1.1|2.768459|0.562|8.458911|1.027778|2.968254|0.651|8.572006|1.013889|2.78312|0.659

 

[Dark Shadows]

Let's look at the years they played together in Chicago, 41-43 & 46-47. This leaves out Doug's big year in 43-44.

Player|GP|G|A|Pts|GP|G|A|Pts
Doug Bentley|223|93|129|222|12|1|4|5
Max Bentley|229|106|144|250|11|4|3|7

It seems pretty clear that Doug's numbers only compare so well to Max's because of the one big season during a "war year". Note that Doug scored just over half of his career playoff points in the first round of the 44 playoffs vs Detroit (7-2-9 vs 2-6-8). Of course some highly ranked Canadiens were also putting up some big numbers vs Toronto at the same time, 28 points for the Punch Line.

I agree that Doug should be rated closer to Max than he is in general, but I can't really see ranking him ahead of him.

Here are their "vs #2" numbers:

Player|TG|HG|H3G|CAG|TA|HA|H3A|CAA|TP|HP|H3P|CAP
Max Bentley|7.994681|1|2.833333|0.666|7.790531|1|3|0.649|8.55187|1.173077|3.159384|0.713
Doug Bentley|7.309365|1.1|2.768459|0.562|8.458911|1.027778|2.968254|0.651|8.572006|1.013889|2.78312|0.659

Are you also going to downgrade Max's best years because of the same factor? All 3 of his best 3 years occurred when the league was still war depleted.

Anytime between 41-42 and 46-47 falls under the same conjecture.

 

[BM67]

Are you also going to downgrade Max's best years because of the same factor? All 3 of his best 3 years occurred when the league was still war depleted.

Anytime between 41-42 and 46-47 falls under the same conjecture.

All of Max's big years came when Doug was also playing, so the matter of comparing the two brothers, it doesn't really matter if they were "war years" or not.

Doug played in 43-44, while Max didn't. It is a factor that distorts the career numbers of Doug, which you were comparing to Max's.

 

[Dark Shadows]

All of Max's big years came when Doug was also playing, so the matter of comparing the two brothers, it doesn't really matter if they were "war years" or not.

Doug played in 43-44, while Max didn't. It is a factor that distorts the career numbers of Doug, which you were comparing to Max's.

Then why downplay Doug's big season during a "War Year"? At least that was how it came off.

Doug missed some time due to the war too. when it comes down to it, missing one extra year doesn't hurt Max's career numbers that much and it certainly does not explain how Doug Managed to score the same amount of points as Max in 100 less career games. That one season did not distort numbers by more than a fraction of that 100 extra games Max played.

Certainly it does not explain how Doug scored the same amount of career points as Max in around 100 less games. Another point to factor in is that, while he only won a single Art Ross, Doug also led the NHL in goal scoring twice, and assists twice, and on an inferior team.

The 4 years after Max left for Toronto, Between 1947-48 and 1950-51

Player|GP|G|A|Pts|Ppg
Doug Bentley|226|72|136|208|0.92
Max Bentley|255|89|109|198|0.77

Seems Doug did better without Max than vice versa. Despite Max being sent to a team with established superstars.

Several players numbers who just arrived in Chicago then jumped higher than Normal. Gaye Stewart had a career year, Roy Conacher who averaged 40 points and previously had a career best 54 points ended up averaging 55 points for the next 4 years and had a 68 point campaign, Bud Poile only played one year there, but his his career high playing alongside Doug. A career high that exceeded his previous high 18 points, and beat anything he did later by 12 points.

Its at least feasible that Doug helped make other players better in a way Max did not.

 

[pappyline]

Then why downplay Doug's big season during a "War Year"? At least that was how it came off.

Doug missed some time due to the war too. when it comes down to it, missing one extra year doesn't hurt Max's career numbers that much and it certainly does not explain how Doug Managed to score the same amount of points as Max in 100 less career games. That one season did not distort numbers by more than a fraction of that 100 extra games Max played.

Certainly it does not explain how Doug scored the same amount of career points as Max in around 100 less games. Another point to factor in is that, while he only won a single Art Ross, Doug also led the NHL in goal scoring twice, and assists twice, and on an inferior team.

The 4 years after Max left for Toronto, Between 1947-48 and 1950-51

Player|GP|G|A|Pts|Ppg
Doug Bentley|226|72|136|208|0.92
Max Bentley|255|89|109|198|0.77

Seems Doug did better without Max than vice versa. Despite Max being sent to a team with established superstars.

Several players numbers who just arrived in Chicago then jumped higher than Normal. Gaye Stewart had a career year, Roy Conacher who averaged 40 points and previously had a career best 54 points ended up averaging 55 points for the next 4 years and had a 68 point campaign, Bud Poile only played one year there, but his his career high playing alongside Doug. A career high that exceeded his previous high 18 points, and beat anything he did later by 12 points.

Its at least feasible that Doug helped make other players better in a way Max did not.

I think Max's numbers were hurt by moving to the Leafs. No way did he get the ice-time playing on the same team as Apps & Kennedy. Also I don't think he played on a regular line with the best Leaf wingers. Plus, chicago played a more wide-open offensive style than the Leafs. I still say Max was a little better than Doug. There must be some eye witness accounts out there that prove this. Just the fact that most people rate Max higher means a lot. I really don't think the numbers you have quoted prove anything.

 

[Dark Shadows]

I think Max's numbers were hurt by moving to the Leafs. No way did he get the ice-time playing on the same team as Apps & Kennedy. Also I don't think he played on a regular line with the best Leaf wingers. Plus, chicago played a more wide-open offensive style than the Leafs. I still say Max was a little better than Doug. There must be some eye witness accounts out there that prove this. Just the fact that most people rate Max higher means a lot. I really don't think the numbers you have quoted prove anything.

Aps was gone the year after Max went over, and Kennedy was from what I understand, the second line center behind Max and that Max had the best wingers with him, but Kennedy was their most clutch playoff performer.

I will agree with what you say about the style of the team. More wide open yes, but back in the 40's/50's, that meant little. No team was really wide open back then. Even taking this into account, Doug is accounted to be far and away the best Defensive player on the Pony line(Max, Doug, and Bill Mosienko)

I cannot say for certain because this was before my time. I hate that because it is one of the times I must go specifically on the accounts I have read and the stat sheets instead of my eyes to help compensate

Everything I read and the stats I have seen points to me that Doug was the more valuable player. Almost equal offensively, a head above Max Defensively and he made his teammates better.

In the playoffs? Well, that is a product of the teams each had in front of him. Chicago was a terrible team, Toronto a Dynasty, and I sincerely believe Doug wins the cups while Max does not if you traded their places.

I understand I am among the only who ranks Doug ahead, and I fully accept others who take Max first. However, I say they should be no more than 3-4 spots away from each other in the top 100.

I have them ranked back to back.

 

[pappyline]

Aps was gone the year after Max went over, and Kennedy was from what I understand, the second line center behind Max and that Max had the best wingers with him, but Kennedy was their most clutch playoff performer.

I will agree with what you say about the style of the team. More wide open yes, but back in the 40's/50's, that meant little. No team was really wide open back then. Even taking this into account, Doug is accounted to be far and away the best Defensive player on the Pony line(Max, Doug, and Bill Mosienko)

I cannot say for certain because this was before my time. I hate that because it is one of the times I must go specifically on the accounts I have read and the stat sheets instead of my eyes to help compensate

Everything I read and the stats I have seen points to me that Doug was the more valuable player. Almost equal offensively, a head above Max Defensively and he made his teammates better.

In the playoffs? Well, that is a product of the teams each had in front of him. Chicago was a terrible team, Toronto a Dynasty, and I sincerely believe Doug wins the cups while Max does not if you traded their places.

I understand I am among the only who ranks Doug ahead, and I fully accept others who take Max first. However, I say they should be no more than 3-4 spots away from each other in the top 100.

I have them ranked back to back.

Max was never 1st line centre ahead of Kennedy. Kennedy usually played 1st line with scorer Sid Smith on his LW. Max played with Klukay, & either Metz or Timgreen. these guys were not known for their scoring ability.

As far as offense vs defense, The Hawks of those years were all offense & no defense. The Leafs were very focused on defense. Other than 50-51, the Hawks had more goals than the Leafs every year. here are the goals for & against.

47-48 Chi 195-225 Leafs 182 -143
48-49 Chi 173-211 Leafs 147-161
49-50 Chi 203-244 Leafs 176-173
50-51 Chi 171-280 Leafs 212-138

Chicago's 195 goals in 47-48 was tops in the league. These 2 teams played a very different game.

I still say Max's ice time got cut back in Toronto & he was forced to fit into the Leaf's style which was much more defensive while Doug continued to play for a very strong offensive team in Chicago.

I do agree that Doug wins the cups if they switch places. However, Max would then have the better regular season stats.

As far as defensive play, I also think they are much closer than you say. Max must have been pretty good defensively to fit into the Leaf system.

Overall, I agree that they are closer than most have them but I still have Max ahead.

 

[raleh]

Max was never 1st line centre ahead of Kennedy. Kennedy usually played 1st line with scorer Sid Smith on his LW. Max played with Klukay, & either Metz or Timgreen. these guys were not known for their scoring ability.

As far as offense vs defense, The Hawks of those years were all offense & no defense. The Leafs were very focused on defense. Other than 50-51, the Hawks had more goals than the Leafs every year. here are the goals for & against.

47-48 Chi 195-225 Leafs 182 -143
48-49 Chi 173-211 Leafs 147-161
49-50 Chi 203-244 Leafs 176-173
50-51 Chi 171-280 Leafs 212-138

Chicago's 195 goals in 47-48 was tops in the league. These 2 teams played a very different game.

I still say Max's ice time got cut back in Toronto & he was forced to fit into the Leaf's style which was much more defensive while Doug continued to play for a very strong offensive team in Chicago.

I do agree that Doug wins the cups if they switch places. However, Max would then have the better regular season stats.

As far as defensive play, I also think they are much closer than you say. Max must have been pretty good defensively to fit into the Leaf system.

Overall, I agree that they are closer than most have them but I still have Max ahead.

Bingo. In that era,and on that team, everyone could handle themselves in their own end.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Max was never 1st line centre ahead of Kennedy. Kennedy usually played 1st line with scorer Sid Smith on his LW. Max played with Klukay, & either Metz or Timgreen. these guys were not known for their scoring ability.

As far as offense vs defense, The Hawks of those years were all offense & no defense. The Leafs were very focused on defense. Other than 50-51, the Hawks had more goals than the Leafs every year. here are the goals for & against.

47-48 Chi 195-225 Leafs 182 -143
48-49 Chi 173-211 Leafs 147-161
49-50 Chi 203-244 Leafs 176-173
50-51 Chi 171-280 Leafs 212-138



Chicago's 195 goals in 47-48 was tops in the league. These 2 teams played a very different game.

I still say Max's ice time got cut back in Toronto & he was forced to fit into the Leaf's style which was much more defensive while Doug continued to play for a very strong offensive team in Chicago.

I do agree that Doug wins the cups if they switch places. However, Max would then have the better regular season stats.

As far as defensive play, I also think they are much closer than you say. Max must have been pretty good defensively to fit into the Leaf system.

Overall, I agree that they are closer than most have them but I still have Max ahead.

Already agree with Toronto playing a more defense oriented game. Like I said, It was before my time. I also have no clue who he played with on a line.

However, every single source I have read indicate that Doug was a standout Defensive player, and the best backchecker on the Hawks, who took care of business defensively while Mosienko and Max B concentrated on scoring. He was regarded as one of the best backcheckers of his time. Something I never hear associated with Max. If Max were that good on both ends of the ice, someone would have recorded/written about it.


One funny thing I encountered in my readings is that Max B was a first order Hypochondriac, and that Bruins Coach Lynn Patrick once told Cal Gardiner to go strike up a conversation with Max to tell him he looked terrible and should see a doctor immediately after the game. apparently, that was enough to give Max a poor game.

From a little book I have called "Who's who in Hockey". Terrible author though. Stan Fischler, whom I take everything he says with a pound of Salt.

 

[raleh]

Already agree with Toronto playing a more defense oriented game. Like I said, It was before my time. I also have no clue who he played with on a line.

However, every single source I have read indicate that Doug was a standout Defensive player, and the best backchecker on the Hawks, who took care of business defensively while Mosienko and Max B concentrated on scoring. He was regarded as one of the best backcheckers of his time. Something I never hear associated with Max. If Max were that good on both ends of the ice, someone would have recorded/written about it.


One funny thing I encountered in my readings is that Max B was a first order Hypochondriac, and that Bruins Coach Lynn Patrick once told Cal Gardiner to go strike up a conversation with Max to tell him he looked terrible and should see a doctor immediately after the game. apparently, that was enough to give Max a poor game.

From a little book I have called "Who's who in Hockey". Terrible author though. Stan Fischler, whom I take everything he says with a pound of Salt.

I've heard stuff like that too, to be honest. Possibly from the same source, though. Can't remember at the moment.

 

[pappyline]

Already agree with Toronto playing a more defense oriented game. Like I said, It was before my time. I also have no clue who he played with on a line.

However, every single source I have read indicate that Doug was a standout Defensive player, and the best backchecker on the Hawks, who took care of business defensively while Mosienko and Max B concentrated on scoring. He was regarded as one of the best backcheckers of his time. Something I never hear associated with Max. If Max were that good on both ends of the ice, someone would have recorded/written about it.


One funny thing I encountered in my readings is that Max B was a first order Hypochondriac, and that Bruins Coach Lynn Patrick once told Cal Gardiner to go strike up a conversation with Max to tell him he looked terrible and should see a doctor immediately after the game. apparently, that was enough to give Max a poor game.

From a little book I have called "Who's who in Hockey". Terrible author though. Stan Fischler, whom I take everything he says with a pound of Salt.

Another thing about Max which indicates Max was OK defensively is that he played the point on the Leaf powerplay. I may be wrong but I believe he was the first forward in the history of the NHl to do so on a regular basis. I can't imagine the Leafs of that era putting a defensive liability on the point.

 

[pitseleh]

One funny thing I encountered in my readings is that Max B was a first order Hypochondriac, and that Bruins Coach Lynn Patrick once told Cal Gardiner to go strike up a conversation with Max to tell him he looked terrible and should see a doctor immediately after the game. apparently, that was enough to give Max a poor game.

From a little book I have called "Who's who in Hockey". Terrible author though. Stan Fischler, whom I take everything he says with a pound of Salt.

There's a good story about Max's hypochondria in Ultimate Hockey as well, as told by Conn Smythe.

"One time, Max asked to see me in my office and when he showed up, he told me had a really bad illness. He claimed he had cancer in a rather critical part of his male anatomy. I said that it was his lucky day because I had read in the paper that morning of a doctor in Scotland who had perfected a cure for Max's problem and I would make travel arrangements for him to go to Glasgow immediately. But I told Max that there was one problem: the cure involved cutting off the diseased parts. Funny, but I never heard again about Max's cancer."