The Babcocalypse: Babcock to Toronto

[Run the Jewels]

Effort and accountability actually matter. Structure and discipline actually matter. I know these things don't show up on a stat sheet but I assure you that they are key factors to success.
Look at the Rangers of the 90s. Highest payroll in the league. Lots of talent. Missed playoffs several times. Coaching actually matters and believe it or not there is a reason why those in the know consider Babcock the best in the business.
Don't forget that according to HFboards our roster is complete and total warmed over garbage with very little talent. We have a totally incompetent GM yet Babs took them to the playoffs.

Right, people like to make the Cooper comparison in Blashill's favor but who in their right mind would take our group of forwards, defense or goaltender over Tampa's? Right, no one. Coaching has been the one area where we were still elite and that's gone.

 

[Winger98]

The thing is Kessel and Phaneuf can bring immediate improvements via trade. We have zero trade pieces of that caliber. So I would hold off on making any pronouncements about next year's Leaf team until we see how their roster will look.

the Leafs also have no reason not to deal them, where we have a bit more incentive not to dump Z, D, Kronwall, etc. for whatever assets we can grab. And I would question the assumption that dealing Kessel will bring in an upgrade. It would likely bring in futures that could someday become an upgrade on Kessel, but someone immediately better? I doubt it.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Right, people like to make the Cooper comparison in Blashill's favor but who in their right mind would take our group of forwards, defense or goaltender over Tampa's? Right, no one. Coaching has been the one area where we were still elite and that's gone.

MOD

Holland is an idiot but he hired Blashill who is a miracle worker?

Our roster sucks but Blashill will do more with it than Babcock?

 

[Frk It]

MOD
Holland is an idiot but he hired Blashill who is a miracle worker?

From MLive:

Blashill was hired by Babcock after he spent the 2010-11 season at Western Michigan University, where he led the Broncos to a 19-13-10 record and their first appearance in the Central Collegiate Hockey Association championship game since 1986.

 

[Actual Thought*]

From MLive:

And then Holland hired him to run GR. Either way if you think this is an upgrade you are going to be very disappointed. Of course everyone here will just blame Holland.

 

[Fugu]

Effort and accountability actually matter. Structure and discipline actually matter. I know these things don't show up on a stat sheet but I assure you that they are key factors to success.
Look at the Rangers of the 90s. Highest payroll in the league. Lots of talent. Missed playoffs several times. Coaching actually matters and believe it or not there is a reason why those in the know consider Babcock the best in the business.
Don't forget that according to HFboards our roster is complete and total warmed over garbage with very little talent. We have a totally incompetent GM yet Babs took them to the playoffs.

Are you speaking for HFBoards now?

I read this same thread and see as much support for the team as criticism. In fact, the entire spectrum seems to be covered.

It's always better to pick a specific post or point to discuss instead of making the blanket statements.

From MLive:

Do you remember what he handled for the Wings while an assistant?

 

[Heaton]

And then Holland hired him to run GR. Either way if you think this is an upgrade you are going to be very disappointed. Of course everyone here will just blame Holland.

Wasn't he technically demoted to GR after the Wings admitted it was a mistake they hired him w/o experience?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Do you remember what he handled for the Wings while an assistant?

power play.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Effort and accountability actually matter. Structure and discipline actually matter. I know these things don't show up on a stat sheet but I assure you that they are key factors to success.
Look at the Rangers of the 90s. Highest payroll in the league. Lots of talent. Missed playoffs several times. Coaching actually matters and believe it or not there is a reason why those in the know consider Babcock the best in the business.
Don't forget that according to HFboards our roster is complete and total warmed over garbage with very little talent. We have a totally incompetent GM yet Babs took them to the playoffs.

I expected the Wings to have home ice in the first round of the playoffs, something they seemed to be on their way to doing until March happened and the goalies couldn't stop a puck and the "greatest coach of all-time" had no answers for really anything in that stretch...

There are plenty in the business that would name a Sutter, Q, Trotz, Julien or others. He is a good coach... Blashill is a good coach, he gets effort and accountability out of his guy at all of his stops to date. He had trouble with a buy in from some of the vets as an assistant, his resume looks entirely different this time around. I understand unwavering support of Mike Babcock (I don't agree that he is perfect and I don't agree that he is the best coach in hockey) but you assume Jeff Blashill is a no nothing coach. Not the guy that has won impressively at every level and is currently boasting a 7-1 record in AHL playoff series.

This just in, more teams called to ask permission for Blashill last year than called on Mike Babcock this year. It speaks to the caliber of coach many think Jeff Blashill will be. Mike Babcock a guy it sounds like you trust implicitly has gone on and on about what he thinks of him and his attention to detail and ability to motivate people, as have most of the Wings with experience with Blashill.

It might not go as planned for some, but it will not be because Blashill isn't detail oriented or doesn't have the ability to motivate people.

 

[dougieg93]

the Leafs also have no reason not to deal them, where we have a bit more incentive not to dump Z, D, Kronwall, etc. for whatever assets we can grab. And I would question the assumption that dealing Kessel will bring in an upgrade. It would likely bring in futures that could someday become an upgrade on Kessel, but someone immediately better? I doubt it.

I would say you are correct if the Leafs stated that their goal is to get immediately better, however the constant message that is being reiterated over and over again is that they are in rebuilding mode and focusing on the long term. I think there would be a lot of questions if they don't trade Kessel/Phaneuf as they are not seen as being the pillars in the long term The goal right now is to get the youngest and most elite prospects possible.

 

[8snake]

Wasn't he technically demoted to GR after the Wings admitted it was a mistake they hired him w/o experience?

Shhhhhh...don't bring that up. Yes, he was basically booted to the minors. Doesn't change the fact that he's done well there, but his NHL coaching career didn't get off to the greatest of starts.

 

[HomersWorld]

The thing is Kessel and Phaneuf can bring immediate improvements via trade. We have zero trade pieces of that caliber. So I would hold off on making any pronouncements about next year's Leaf team until we see how their roster will look.

The return those players could get on their talents alone take a big hit based on their contracts. I like Kessel a lot, but he's coming off a season where he put up numbers in the ballpark of a Tatar/Nyquist while under contract to make 8 million a year until he's 34.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I expected the Wings to have home ice in the first round of the playoffs, something they seemed to be on their way to doing until March happened and the goalies couldn't stop a puck and the "greatest coach of all-time" had no answers for really anything in that stretch...

There are plenty in the business that would name a Sutter, Q, Trotz, Julien or others. He is a good coach... Blashill is a good coach, he gets effort and accountability out of his guy at all of his stops to date. He had trouble with a buy in from some of the vets as an assistant, his resume looks entirely different this time around. I understand unwavering support of Mike Babcock (I don't agree that he is perfect and I don't agree that he is the best coach in hockey) but you assume Jeff Blashill is a no nothing coach. Not the guy that has won impressively at every level and is currently boasting a 7-1 record in AHL playoff series.

This just in, more teams called to ask permission for Blashill last year than called on Mike Babcock this year. It speaks to the caliber of coach many think Jeff Blashill will be. Mike Babcock a guy it sounds like you trust implicitly has gone on and on about what he thinks of him and his attention to detail and ability to motivate people, as have most of the Wings with experience with Blashill.

It might not go as planned for some, but it will not be because Blashill isn't detail oriented or doesn't have the ability to motivate people.

I am sure Blashill is a competent guy. I think that much is without question. The way I see it Babcock had Jack Adams type seasons 2 of the last 3 years just to qualify for the playoffs. Given their roster I thought they made a pretty impressive showing vs Tampa. IMO they got burned on a couple mistakes against an explosive team. Overall they competed very well in the series. If Glendenning had not gotten hurt or Kronwall not gotten suspended we might be talking about the Wings in the ECF. I just don't believe Blashill is going to come in and be that effective and he will have to be to get into the playoffs and have a chance.
Every coach in the NHL had success at lower levels. That's how they got to the NHL. Only a tiny fraction are championship caliber though. Blashill is a giant question mark at the NHL level. These are no longer starry eyed kids with a dream. These are rich men with giant egos. It takes a special kind of charisma and confidence to keep the inmates from running the asylum of a major league sports team. This is especially true when you are transitioning from a coach that is very demanding such as Babcock. There could be a tendency for players to take advantage of his lack of "cache". Respect will have to be earned from guys who can simply ruin his career if they choose to. Rookie coaches are extremely vulnerable to mutiny. The leadership of this team has been there done that. It will take a very impressive guy to come in and get them to buy in.
If you were telling me Babcock is leaving but we are bringing in Suter I would be much more confident. Replacing an elite coach with the guy who was"good in the kids league" doesn't inspire me to think we are cup bound.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Mike Babcock wasn't the guy we know today right when he came in. He grew as a coach over time. Is Blashill going to be today's Mike Babcock immediately? No. But he's very good to start, and he can grow into an elite NHL coach with time, just like Babcock did.

But I think a lot of this speculation comes from people who haven't seen Jeff Blashill work. The guy is such a Mike Babcock clone that you might not know the difference.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Mike Babcock wasn't the guy we know today right when he came in. He grew as a coach over time. Is Blashill going to be today's Mike Babcock immediately? No. But he's very good to start, and he can grow into an elite NHL coach with time, just like Babcock did.

But I think a lot of this speculation comes from people who haven't seen Jeff Blashill work. The guy is such a Mike Babcock clone that you might not know the difference.

Exactly. I expect them to take a step back. Given the margin for error in today's parity league I expect that means missing the playoffs for the first time in 24 years.

 

[Run the Jewels]

The return those players could get on their talents alone take a big hit based on their contracts. I like Kessel a lot, but he's coming off a season where he put up numbers in the ballpark of a Tatar/Nyquist while under contract to make 8 million a year until he's 34.

Kessel was a point a game player the previous three seasons. He also has Five 30+ goal seasons. So he has plenty of trade value. Guys with elite talent always have trade value.

With Phaneuf I think the return will be a bit more modest given the dramatic fall off in his offensive production. But they will be able to turn both guys into the type of players they want and they will get good return.

 

[Dotter]

Wasn't he technically demoted to GR after the Wings admitted it was a mistake they hired him w/o experience?

Not saying it isn't true, but do you have a source for this? I've never heard them say it was a mistake.

From my understanding is they wanted him to groom the younger players while gaining pro HC experience himself.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Exactly. I expect them to take a step back. Given the margin for error in today's parity league I expect that means missing the playoffs for the first time in 24 years.

They might, they might not. I'm not sure the Wings could land a coach who would guarantee they made the playoffs. It's a bit of a gamble, and at this point organizational fit and potential should be a bigger consideration than immediate coaching ability.

and... I'm going to say it. Missing the playoffs is not the worst thing that can happen.

 

[jkutswings]

Exactly. I expect them to take a step back. Given the margin for error in today's parity league I expect that means missing the playoffs for the first time in 24 years.

Because they've accomplished so very much during the last several playoff runs?

People need to realize the run is OVER. As in, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg will never win another Stanley Cup. So if my choice is to prolong a meaningless streak and be early round cannon fodder yet again, or to ONLY care about long-term success, even at the expense of the streak, I choose the latter without blinking.

Now would I prefer a meaningful rebuild WHILE still making the playoffs? Sure, but my definition of meaningful will never happen with the current practices of the current GM. So if I can't have my cake and eat it too, prioritizing the next window of returning to elite status is what matters.

 

[Heaton]

Not saying it isn't true, but do you have a source for this? I've never heard them say it was a mistake.

From my understanding is they wanted him to groom the younger players while gaining pro HC experience himself.

It is a demotion for Blashill and an admission of mistake by the Red Wings.

Babcock wanted to think outside of the box and make a bold hire, but it was a bit egregious to put a greenhorn behind the bench of a veteran team and expect him to elevate the play of some of NHL greats, who probably often thought twice about taking Blashill’s coaching to heart.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/06/jeff_blashill_to_griffins_is_a.html

Obviously it was the right move seeing as where he is today.

 

[Heaton]

Because they've accomplished so very much during the last several playoff runs?

People need to realize the run is OVER. As in, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg will never win another Stanley Cup. So if my choice is to prolong a meaningless streak and be early round cannon fodder yet again, or to ONLY care about long-term success, even at the expense of the streak, I choose the latter without blinking.

Now would I prefer a meaningful rebuild WHILE still making the playoffs? Sure, but my definition of meaningful will never happen with the current practices of the current GM. So if I can't have my cake and eat it too, prioritizing the next window of returning to elite status is what matters.

Should the Wings trade Datsyuk/Z then?

 

[Actual Thought*]

Because they've accomplished so very much during the last several playoff runs?

People need to realize the run is OVER. As in, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg will never win another Stanley Cup. So if my choice is to prolong a meaningless streak and be early round cannon fodder yet again, or to ONLY care about long-term success, even at the expense of the streak, I choose the latter without blinking.

Now would I prefer a meaningful rebuild WHILE still making the playoffs? Sure, but my definition of meaningful will never happen with the current practices of the current GM. So if I can't have my cake and eat it too, prioritizing the next window of returning to elite status is what matters.

They were not exactly canon fodder in the playoffs this year. I think this team is building out nicely. I think they are a piece or two away from making a run. That's why it is IMO such a critical time to lose an elite coach. It's a shame he didn't stick around and finish the job.

 

[SoupNazi]

1,000.