News Article: the Avery rule

[Krams]

They have performed much better since Jagr left too, I guess we can say that Glass is a better player than Jagr?

Well put. It's almost as if rosters and players don't exist in a vacuum over time.

 

[silverfish]

Avery in his first stint was great, he was entertaining, creative, and got under his opponents' skin.

I was excited for him to return in 2009, but he was a caricature of his former self. Opponents weren't taking the bait anymore and the officials had a careful eye on him. When he was engaging in his typical Avery antics, it felt stale and contrived, like he was doing it for publicity and attention. I defended him for awhile and denied he was a distraction, but once he started flouting team rules, that was it for me.

In his second stint here he took 9 more penalties than he drew over two seasons. You make it sound like he was this ridiculous idiot (see: Rinaldo). He was still effective.

55 points in 145 games = ~31 over 82 games. Had a rough go of it in 10-11 with a 2.2 shooting%.

He was a positive possession player, and created more scoring chances than he gave up.

Something about NY + Avery made sense. Something about NY + Torts + Avery did not. It's on Avery for not toeing the line the correct way with Torts as his coach. You could probably make the argument that Avery couldn't play his style of game, which effected his overall stats, because of the coach he was playing for.

And that's on Avery for not working with his coach. But, it's also on the coach for not working with his player.

Two stubborn dudes.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

Seemed to have a problem with authority that got him shipped out of every team he played for and made him a pariah in the NHL.

In his second stint here he took 9 more penalties than he drew over two seasons. You make it sound like he was this ridiculous idiot (see: Rinaldo). He was still effective.

55 points in 145 games = ~31 over 82 games. Had a rough go of it in 10-11 with a 2.2 shooting%.

He was a positive possession player, and created more scoring chances than he gave up.

Something about NY + Avery made sense. Something about NY + Torts + Avery did not. It's on Avery for not toeing the line the correct way with Torts as his coach. You could probably make the argument that Avery couldn't play his style of game, which effected his overall stats, because of the coach he was playing for.

And that's on Avery for not working with his coach. But, it's also on the coach for not working with his player.


Two stubborn dudes.

It's also on Sather for bringing in a guy who, according to the coach he just employed, was "an embarrassment and should never be allowed to play in the league again".
.

Overall I still think Avery was a net positive, even in his second stint, but those two were never going to be a good match.
Also, This.

 

[OverTheCap]

In his second stint here he took 9 more penalties than he drew over two seasons. You make it sound like he was this ridiculous idiot (see: Rinaldo). He was still effective.

55 points in 145 games = ~31 over 82 games. Had a rough go of it in 10-11 with a 2.2 shooting%.

He was a positive possession player, and created more scoring chances than he gave up.

Something about NY + Avery made sense. Something about NY + Torts + Avery did not. It's on Avery for not toeing the line the correct way with Torts as his coach. You could probably make the argument that Avery couldn't play his style of game, which effected his overall stats, because of the coach he was playing for.

And that's on Avery for not working with his coach. But, it's also on the coach for not working with his player.

Two stubborn dudes.

I was referring moreso about his effectiveness as an agitator and not his effectiveness as a possession player. In his first stint, he pissed the hell out of star players such as Kovalchuk and creatively disrupted Marty's line of vision by waving his stick in front of his face. In his second stint, he was tapping Tim Thomas' helmet during a play stoppage and mocking Maxime Talbot's fighting ability - not exactly the same type of effective on-ice agitation we saw in his first stint.

I think Avery sealed his fate with the "sloppy seconds" comment. He had embarrassed the league before and they were not going to let it happen again. Even if Avery had a coach that told him to go out there and do whatever he wants, the league/officials were not having it. Avery had to toe the line at that point, because if he was involved in another incident, that would be it for him in this league.

 

[Thirty One]

It's also on Sather for bringing in a guy who, according to the coch he just employed, was "an embarrassment and should never be allowed to play in the league again".

The team was desperate for top-nine forwards. A good one came available for a song. You shouldn't have to choose between them, but if you did, I sure as hell wouldn't choose Torts.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

The team was desperate for top-nine forwards. A good one came available for a song. You shouldn't have to choose between them, but if you did, I sure as hell wouldn't choose Torts.

You should expect two grown men to be able to set aside their differences and work together, but those two were always going to be trouble.

As for choosing Aves over Torts, I absolutely disagree. I loved Avery, but Tortorella helped develop and build the core that made it to the SCF.

 

[Jim Ramsay]

You should expect two grown men to be able to set aside their differences and work together, but those two were always going to be trouble.

As for choosing Aves over Torts, I absolutely disagree. I loved Avery, but Tortorella helped develop and build the core that made it to the SCF.

There is no way that they make it to the SCF if Torts was still coach, his six goalie system can only take you so far. You got to give AV more credit than you are by saying that

 

[silverfish]

I was referring moreso about his effectiveness as an agitator and not his effectiveness as a possession player. In his first stint, he pissed the hell out of star players such as Kovalchuk and creatively disrupted Marty's line of vision by waving his stick in front of his face. In his second stint, he was tapping Tim Thomas' helmet during a play stoppage and mocking Maxime Talbot's fighting ability - not exactly the same type of effective on-ice agitation we saw in his first stint.

I think Avery sealed his fate with the "sloppy seconds" comment. He had embarrassed the league before and they were not going to let it happen again. Even if Avery had a coach that told him to go out there and do whatever he wants, the league/officials were not having it. Avery had to toe the line at that point, because if he was involved in another incident, that would be it for him in this league.

Hm. I think he still "had it"

In the Caps series, the Rangers were about to lose the game, everyone knew they were going to lose that game, and Avery started stirring **** up to get them riled for the next game. (I think this was game 4 going into game 5). Torts benched him for game 5, so it never really came to fruition.

For sure, a lot of players around the league caught on to his "schtick", but it was still effective.

And you know what, it kind of speaks volumes about Avery. In a weird way. Other players in the league caught on to his antics, but he NEVER resulted to playing dirty like guys like Cooke, Rinaldo, etc...

As far as I know, Avery was never suspended for an on ice offense. Considering that someone like that is pretty well known as being one of the best agitators since the NHL lockout, well, that's pretty damn impressive. To me at least. I don't know.

Like I've said, I'm biased. I loved having Avery on the Rangers.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

There is no way that they make it to the SCF if Torts was still coach, his six goalie system can only take you so far. You got to give AV more credit than you are by saying that

Letting Torts go was the right call. So was bringing in AV. I'm not taking anything away from AV.

What I'm saying is, at the time he was hired, Torts was the right guy. He worked wonders with the team and played a huge part in the development of our defensive core. As much as I loved Sean as a player, there's no way I pick him over Torts if I'm looking at Februar/March of 2009 in retrospect.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

they also pay state tax for every state they play in

And get a resident credit on their home state for any taxes paid to another state (the concept of no double taxation at work).

Also, people need to realize that when someone is "in" the 39.6% tax bracket (that didn't exist when Avery was playing), not all of their income is taxed at that level--we have a progressive taxation system in this country.

 

[Whiplash27]

Well the highest tax rate in the US is 35% and then add in state tax. NY State max tax rate is about 9%. So you're at about 44% tax in NY state. I believe there's also a NYC payroll tax as well. So add it all up and you're probably getting close to 50%.

 

[vladmyir111]

No one actually pays 50% tax lol

And how did he blow a million on "stuff" if he only earned 5% of his contracts over his career?

His math is terrible, but the premise stands. It's not hard to run through a million a year when you're a dumb kid with no one guiding you. Kind of surprised if the NHL has no financial management support.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

He's your favorite Ranger of all time?

Yes, and I`ve been a fan since 1995 (yepp,the year after the cup.... )

Always funny to watch Avery on the ice, the best agitator ever I think, at least playing on the Rangers. And he actually wasnt a bad hockey player, he had decent skills. If Glass had just half of Avery`s skills he could call himself a NHL player.

I have been a Rangers fan for over 40 years and Sean Avery is easily one of my favorite Rangers of all time!

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Well "said" Reggie! Perfect picture.

 

[eco's bones]

I have to say that the Avery as he originally came to us in trade from Los Angeles could play on my team any day. He was a very good skater--Renney could move him up and down the lines--he penalty killed. He would put up 35-45 points a year and he distracted the **** out of other teams. For instance Kovalchuk and Hossa when the Rangers played the Thrashers in the playoffs--or Brodeur when we played New Jersey. With Renney as the coach Avery was a really good player for us.

With Tortorella--it was not so much. And those two did not like each other and still don't. Avery does not miss a chance to run Torts down--which is fair enough considering that Torts pretty much singled him out for abuse when he became coach.

So to me the Avery that played for Renney is a different player than the one who played for Torts.

...and both coaches had some success in New York...though neither one of them got the team as far as the cup finals like AV did in his first season. Between Torts and Renney--to be honest I prefer Renney. Enter AV into the picture and I prefer AV. Tortorella's combustible temperament is the worst personal trait that any of the three have. His personal attacks on members of the press in post games was just one indication of it--and it was out there for anyone who wanted to see. His subsequent year in Vancouver was an outright catastrophe for that organization more or less because he couldn't control his need to control every single thing and because he couldn't control his emotions. He didn't have to play Avery--when he was coaching him here and he didn't have to turn it into some personal vendetta--but he did. One can say that Avery is an *******--he surely is an ******* to play against. What Torts proved was he's a bigger *******--the difference being it didn't advance things one iota for the Rangers.

 

[eco's bones]

By the way I take my 92 year old mom out to lunch and for groceries etc.--pretty much Monday through Friday---but I don't always particularly care for the opinions of old ladies.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

By the way I take my 92 year old mom out to lunch and for groceries etc.--pretty much Monday through Friday---but I don't always particularly care for the opinions of old ladies.

Although often curmudgeon, the general opinions of people who have seen nearly a century of life on earth tend to be razor sharp unless you talk to them about an iPhone or something like that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Although often curmudgeon, the general opinions of people who have seen nearly a century of life on earth tend to be razor sharp unless you talk to them about an iPhone or something like that.

My 92 year old grandmother in law (is that a thing?) really "tells it like it is" these days, which offends some people but I find hilarious.

She has no idea, however, who Sean Avery is.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

My 92 year old grandmother in law (is that a thing?) really "tells it like it is" these days, which offends some people but I find hilarious.

She has no idea, however, who Sean Avery is.

She tells it like it is, so I rest my case.

 

[eco's bones]

FWIW and it applies to men as well--I haven't found the adages about age and wisdom to be always applicable. Generally people as they get older get a lot more conservative and often times close off avenues of inquiry that don't fit into the perspectives they're most comfortable with. Now if we're talking about situational intelligence--that can be another thing. Experience in dealing with an entire lifetime's worth of issues can count for something.

Seriously though I'm probably easily among the top 5 percentile in age posting on this forum. I am in my late 50's.

Some people are not going to get any smarter no matter how long they live. There are people that literally hit the wall at a certain point in their lifetime and that can happen at any age.

 

[Trxjw]

Buying a starter home in the Hamptons is a risky investment. Maybe 30 years ago when houses were selling for less than $100k it made a lot of sense, but not now. The market is flooded though. 4 realtor signs the street I grew up on alone.

 

[wolfgaze]

He's a dick. That's how he made his money in the NHL. To have that persona on the ice, you kind of need to have it off the ice a little bit, too.

Exactly... I don't have much respect for 'dicks'... He demonstrated a lack of maturity and professionalism during this career and certainly has some 'issues' that he needs to sort out...

 

[wolfgaze]

His relationship with one specific guy, or even with one locker room, doesn't really paint the full picture though, does it? I mean, by most accounts the Avery that played for the Rangers was the best Avery possible, both on and off the ice. He seemed to have matured quite a bit compared to his early days, and outside of Torts he seemed to fit in pretty well.

After his stint in Dallas he told Larry Brooks that he intentionally acted in ways to make the the tension/situation worse over there - which was effectively disrupting/distracting the Dallas locker room and hurting their organization. If that doesn't speak to immaturity and selfishness - I don't know what does. It was also a major sign of disrespect to Brett Hull who put his faith in Avery and gave him a lucrative contract - only to have that move blow up in his face, piss off his current players, and become a black eye for the organization. Between that story, the incident with the Kings coming out regarding his making fun of younger teammate's speach impediment and talking about that player's wife to the point of blows nearly being exchanged, the embellishing on the ice to try and draw penalties, and the lack of professionalism he demonstrated on the ice - I lost respect for him and no longer wanted to see him represent the Rangers organization nor wear our uniform. I can only imagine what kinds of things he said to other players on the ice - if teammates' wives & speech impediments were fair game, the sexual relationships of other playes in the league - well then I can only imagine how far he would take his trash talking on the ice... What was 'off limits' for him, if anything?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I remember reading direct quotes from the Redwings GM regarding Avery. He wanted Avery gone if I remember correctly. Avery also caused significant issues in LA and Dallas. The weird thing is since Avery retired he still can not shake his personality. He even had issues on Dancing With The Stars.

Hopefully Avery is not his own money manager if he really thinks he only cleared 5% of his salary.