OT: The Avalounge: No Witty Title Available (mod warning in OP)

[forsbergavs32]

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PSA: So far the discussion about the Russia-Ukraine war here has been informational, however, if it at all goes sideways we'll have to can that discussion because it is political. So just be wary of that. Carry on.

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[henchman21]

Ukraine supposedly taking out 10 planes and 80 tanks yesterday are two potentially big numbers. 80 tanks, if the majority are in a main attack element, those are numbers that would hit disengagement. In a fixing force, that number is less impressive (seems that isn't the case though). 10 planes (maybe all fighters) is a catastrophic loss in one day. Russia may have to risk the SU57 in this fight after all.

 

[Ceremony]

@Foppberg if you want to learn what different kinds of planes are I suggest the documentary channel "Ace Combat Fan" on youtube



Here's the Su-57 hench mentioned above

 

[Hasbro]

For reference:

 

[Hasbro]

 

[CharlesPuck]

@Foppberg if you want to learn what different kinds of planes are I suggest the documentary channel "Ace Combat Fan" on youtube



Here's the Su-57 hench mentioned above

Are the physics accurate for that maneuver performed in the stadium?!

 

[Ceremony]

Are the physics accurate for that maneuver performed in the stadium?!

definitely imo

 

[JLo217]

Ukraine supposedly taking out 10 planes and 80 tanks yesterday are two potentially big numbers. 80 tanks, if the majority are in a main attack element, those are numbers that would hit disengagement. In a fixing force, that number is less impressive (seems that isn't the case though). 10 planes (maybe all fighters) is a catastrophic loss in one day. Russia may have to risk the SU57 in this fight after all.

They've used a few SU-57's. There is video of a formation.

Anyone see that video of a Russian tank running over a car just cuz? The old guy in the car survived somehow. What in the world is going on?

If this ends in any way soon Putin and lots of Russians will be on trial in world courts.

 

[JLo217]

I'm also at the point with what is happening on the ground I think Nato should take the airspace and take out Russian rockets to protect civilians. Lots of civilian areas getting hit hard.

 

[Papa Francouz]

NATO intervening now would spark WWIII. With Ukraine not being a member of NATO, NATO nations have a very limited list of actions they can take against Russia. The sanctions and economic hits, as well as giving the Ukrainian military arms, is really the best they can do without getting involved outright, which is a no-go.

 

[henchman21]

They've used a few SU-57's. There is video of a formation.

Anyone see that video of a Russian tank running over a car just cuz? The old guy in the car survived somehow. What in the world is going on?

If this ends in any way soon Putin and lots of Russians will be on trial in world courts.

If they are flying (I have my doubts), they are not being used in attacks. Right now they'd be used reconnaissance to send SU27 and SU35s to attack, or protection for bombers because of their radar capability. The tinfoil hat in me points to the SU57 not being battle tasted and being fraught with issues in development. There are only a handful that are combat capable, and that is being generous calling them that... losing any of them would be a huge. The handful they have are also not enough to create a squadron limiting Russia's ability to control skies anywhere now. If Russia continues to lose SU35s at the rate they are, their hand might be forced.

 

[JLo217]

NATO intervening now would spark WWIII. With Ukraine not being a member of NATO, NATO nations have a very limited list of actions they can take against Russia. The sanctions and economic hits, as well as giving the Ukrainian military arms, is really the best they can do without getting involved outright, which is a no-go.

I mean they just threatened Finland and Sweden 5 minutes ago...

Russia issues ominous warning to Finland, Sweden should they join NATO

 

[henchman21]

NATO intervening now would spark WWIII. With Ukraine not being a member of NATO, NATO nations have a very limited list of actions they can take against Russia. The sanctions and economic hits, as well as giving the Ukrainian military arms, is really the best they can do without getting involved outright, which is a no-go.

I highly doubt NATO intervening would spark WW3. Russia would make lots of noise, but they don't have the military force to be able to take on Ukraine and NATO at the same time. They can take on Ukraine and Moldova and throw numbers at their problems. They can't throw numbers at NATO while doing the same with Ukraine. Only one at a time is even possible for Russia and they'll have to lick their wounds in between. NATO implementing a no-fly zone over Ukraine would end this conflict pretty shortly. Russia would scream about it and would use it down the road to justify some aggressive actions, but they simply don't have the military capabilities to take on the battle.

I do think Russia gaining Ukraine and having time to build back up (say 2025) would allow them to go after certain NATO states with the numbers strategy again.

 

[henchman21]

I mean they just threatened Finland and Sweden 5 minutes ago...

Russia issues ominous warning to Finland, Sweden should they join NATO

Russia always makes this threat... just getting publicity now.

Article from Dec
Russia warns NATO against inclusion of Finland, Sweden

 

[JLo217]

I highly doubt NATO intervening would spark WW3. Russia would make lots of noise, but they don't have the military force to be able to take on Ukraine and NATO at the same time. They can take on Ukraine and Moldova and throw numbers at their problems. They can't throw numbers at NATO while doing the same with Ukraine. Only one at a time is even possible for Russia and they'll have to lick their wounds in between. NATO implementing a no-fly zone over Ukraine would end this conflict pretty shortly. Russia would scream about it and would use it down the road to justify some aggressive actions, but they simply don't have the military capabilities to take on the battle.

I do think Russia gaining Ukraine and having time to build back up (say 2025) would allow them to go after certain NATO states with the numbers strategy again.

Yup. I think/hope this happens in the next few days. It sure doesn't seem like Russia is going to stop throwing threats around. Doesn't seem like anyone on the inside will do it.

 

[JLo217]

Russia always makes this threat... just getting publicity now.

Article from Dec
Russia warns NATO against inclusion of Finland, Sweden

Yeah, i'd just say that's pretty ominous given the situation.

I can't help but feel this isn't going how Russia thought in terms of support and they're getting ready to throw a tantrum.

 

[Hasbro]

I mean they just threatened Finland and Sweden 5 minutes ago...

Russia issues ominous warning to Finland, Sweden should they join NATO

Russia should have a look at how two front wars worked out against them.

 

[S E P H]

For reference:

View attachment 510425

Additionally, majority of Ukraine especially in the central regions of the country are just flat farm lands across endless miles. That is quite the advantage for opposing forces to move across many miles fairly easily. Plus I am not sure what Ukraine is doing by not bombing their own bridges across major water ways or rivers.

 

[henchman21]

Yup. I think/hope this happens in the next few days. It sure doesn't seem like Russia is going to stop throwing threats around. Doesn't seem like anyone on the inside will do it.

I don't think NATO will do it anytime soon. Now if Ukraine is fighting and holding/pushing back Russia on the ground... and holding their own in the air in say 3-4 weeks... and all Ukraine needs is air support to claim victory. I could see NATO swooping in to help. The outright war crimes being committed by Russia are giving the excuse if NATO thinks Ukraine will win.

Yeah, i'd just say that's pretty ominous given the situation.

I can't help but feel this isn't going how Russia thought in terms of support and they're getting ready to throw a tantrum.

It is certainly hurting Russia in the West, but in the East it is still fairly muted... combine that with the West having a pretty short memory most of the time, Russia can still get away with this if they don't go too far. I think that is an utter tragedy, but the temperature for the West to maintain global security as at an all time low. Maybe this is a tipping point to bring some of that back, but I remain skeptical.

 

[henchman21]

Additionally, majority of Ukraine especially in the central regions of the country are just flat farm lands across endless miles. That is quite the advantage for opposing forces to move across many miles fairly easily. Plus I am not sure what Ukraine is doing by not bombing their own bridges across major water ways or rivers.

That's a very common and smart tactic when you are being invaded. Shutdown all the easy entries and make it more difficult with natural barriers. Ukraine doesn't have a ton, but they need to use what they can to stall the Russian attack.

 

[S E P H]

That's a very common and smart tactic when you are being invaded. Shutdown all the easy entries and make it more difficult with natural barriers. Ukraine doesn't have a ton, but they need to use what they can to stall the Russian attack.

I'm starting to see pics of broken bridges, but the first 24-48 hours has been quite smooth for Russian mobilisation. E: Those could've been separatist areas though.

 

[JLo217]

That's a very common and smart tactic when you are being invaded. Shutdown all the easy entries and make it more difficult with natural barriers. Ukraine doesn't have a ton, but they need to use what they can to stall the Russian attack.

There have been multiple bridges soldiers have taken their life to blow up.

 

[henchman21]

I'm starting to see pics of broken bridges, but the first 24-48 hours has been quite smooth for Russian mobilisation.

Not really... Russia is getting taken to the shed on the ground. Losing 80 tanks in a day is massive. If that was in a singular battalion, they'd be retreating.

 

[henchman21]

There have been multiple bridges soldiers have taken their life to blow up.

Heros.

 

[S E P H]

Not really... Russia is getting taken to the shed on the ground. Losing 80 tanks in a day is massive. If that was in a singular battalion, they'd be retreating.

No questions about that. Guerrilla tactics seem to be fitting the Ukrainian army quite well, seeing a lot of pictures of Russia getting shredded on the main motor ways from ambushes.