OT: The Avalounge: No Politics in the Lounge

[John Mandalorian]

I kind of wish I had a head for math so I could have gotten a useful degree. I got my AA in History, but I figured a four year degree in the humanities would have been a complete waste of money, as I had no intention of getting a masters, which is pretty much the only way a history degree is worth the paper it's printed on.

If I had any talent for numbers I could have probably gotten a degree that would pay, but as it is I have learned and forgotten college algebra three times now. Every time I finished the class and scraped by with a C it was like pulling the plug in a bathtub and everything I learned just drained out. Going beyond algebra was out of the question. I just can't wrap my brain around numbers at all, they make no sense to me once you get past basic algebra. But ask me about the Battle of Kursk, and I could tell you all about it.

I bet random strangers ask you about that all the time?

 

[henchman21]

I kind of wish I had a head for math so I could have gotten a useful degree. I got my AA in History, but I figured a four year degree in the humanities would have been a complete waste of money, as I had no intention of getting a masters, which is pretty much the only way a history degree is worth the paper it's printed on.

If I had any talent for numbers I could have probably gotten a degree that would pay, but as it is I have learned and forgotten college algebra three times now. Every time I finished the class and scraped by with a C it was like pulling the plug in a bathtub and everything I learned just drained out. Going beyond algebra was out of the question. I just can't wrap my brain around numbers at all, they make no sense to me once you get past basic algebra. But ask me about the Battle of Kursk, and I could tell you all about it.

The secret that nobody will tell you... accounting is just addition and subtraction 95% of the time. Then multiplication and division 4% of the time. 1% of the time, you ask somebody else to calculate it.

 

[Papa Francouz]

I kind of wish I had a head for math so I could have gotten a useful degree. I got my AA in History, but I figured a four year degree in the humanities would have been a complete waste of money, as I had no intention of getting a masters, which is pretty much the only way a history degree is worth the paper it's printed on.

If I had any talent for numbers I could have probably gotten a degree that would pay, but as it is I have learned and forgotten college algebra three times now. Every time I finished the class and scraped by with a C it was like pulling the plug in a bathtub and everything I learned just drained out. Going beyond algebra was out of the question. I just can't wrap my brain around numbers at all, they make no sense to me once you get past basic algebra. But ask me about the Battle of Kursk, and I could tell you all about it.

I also wish I were better at math, but not so I could get a different degree. I just like learning things but I've never been able to learn math well, and that pisses me off

I think a lot of people have forgotten the importance of the liberal arts. History, writing, visual arts, and the like are just as important to a society as math, science, and technology. They help to shape culture more so than the STEM fields but, unfortunately, they've become less and less appreciated over the years as we push towards valuing efficiency over well-being. Personally, I would much rather have a conversation with you about the Battle of Kursk than have a conversation with an accountant about tax regulations or listen to a financial professional talk about investment portfolios.

 

[Foppa2118]

In Sweden most people just log in to our tax agency, double check the info is right and then sign digitally. If you have to make deductions it might take a bit longer, but in general it's hassle free.

I guess that's one of the reasons Sweden is one of the few countries where the tax agency is popular among people. It's one of the institutions people have the most trust in.

Ditto in Finland. The less I hear from the tax agency the better, and if for some reason I have to do anything at all, like go click on something, I'm immediately annoyed.

The taxation is pretty rough sometimes though and some people love to complain about it.

The US could do that here too, if they placed more value on the quality of life for their citizens, than making money for special interests.

There's so many things like that here, where we could do things so much smarter and better, like we're actually in the 21st century.

There's just no political will to do it though, and the only way to counter that is to do something like campaign finance reform, so the wealthy donors don't have so much control over congress and therefore over citizens.

But neither political party has gotten even close to taking this seriously, even though we've been talking about it for at least a couple decades now, because both sides make a ton of money from donors this way.

So the only way to counter this problem is to get more people to vote (turnout is only 50-60% in presidential years and 30-40% in the mid terms), educate them on the issues, and then vote the A holes out, while voting good people in.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Maybe I’m a pessimist but I feel like chances are no matter which way you lean chances are you’re going to be voting in an A hole and someone with questionable motives. But as one of the younger(I’m assuming) posters here that could just be how recent politics have warped my viewings of it.

 

[McMetal]

I bet random strangers ask you about that all the time?

Dammit, it was the largest tank battle in history and a pivotal turning point in WWII, as the Russians took the offensive against the Wehrmacht for the first time and began the pushback that would ultimately lead to the capture of Berlin! It was IMPORTANT!

 

[Avsboy]

Maybe I’m a pessimist but I feel like chances are no matter which way you lean chances are you’re going to be voting in an A hole and someone with questionable motives. But as one of the younger(I’m assuming) posters here that could just be how recent politics have warped my viewings of it.

I've become an anarchist over the years. Local government and that's it.

 

[Foppa2118]

Maybe I’m a pessimist but I feel like chances are no matter which way you lean chances are you’re going to be voting in an A hole and someone with questionable motives. But as one of the younger(I’m assuming) posters here that could just be how recent politics have warped my viewings of it.

It's an understandable attitude, but that's why people don't vote, and that's why things never change. You have to try and fight that feeling if you can.

There are meaningful differences between the candidates that win and their opponents in a lot of races. Their opponents just don't win for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their ability to do the job.

 

[McMetal]

I also wish I were better at math, but not so I could get a different degree. I just like learning things but I've never been able to learn math well, and that pisses me off

I think a lot of people have forgotten the importance of the liberal arts. History, writing, visual arts, and the like are just as important to a society as math, science, and technology. They help to shape culture more so than the STEM fields but, unfortunately, they've become less and less appreciated over the years as we push towards valuing efficiency over well-being. Personally, I would much rather have a conversation with you about the Battle of Kursk than have a conversation with an accountant about tax regulations or listen to a financial professional talk about investment portfolios.

Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for history education in particular. I think American schools teach it all wrong, especially at the high school level. History is important. It's impossible to understand the world today without understanding its past. History isn't about what happened, it's about WHY it happened, and how every event has history behind it and leads directly to future events. If it was taught that way, I think people would find it way more interesting and it would lead to more learning and retention.

Unfortunately, if you want to make money, history just isn't a good degree to get. A bachelor's in history would qualify me for the job I have now. A masters will get you a high school teaching job, which is barely scraping a middle class paycheck most places. A doctorate will get you tenure at a university and academic credentials, and also a huge debt burden. I kind of would like to finish that degree someday, because I love learning about history, but I don't want to spend the money, because I would just never see a return on the investment.

 

[Richard88]

I've become an anarchist over the years. Local government and that's it.

Unfortunately the word "anarchy" has become associated with chaos and societal unrest, when what it really means is simply freedom for the individual. Someone living sustainably off-grid and wanting to be left alone fits the definition of an anarchist far better than someone looting and rioting.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's an understandable attitude, but that's why people don't vote, and that's why things never change. You have to try and fight that feeling if you can.

There are meaningful differences between the candidates that win and their opponents in a lot of races. Their opponents just don't win for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their ability to do the job.

I still vote and make sure to hear all sides POV but it’s tough, at least on the federal level, everything has become much more narrative driven. It’s just tough because it’s so important but everything they do makes it so hard to want to get invested in caring what they have to say.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for history education in particular. I think American schools teach it all wrong, especially at the high school level. History is important. It's impossible to understand the world today without understanding its past. History isn't about what happened, it's about WHY it happened, and how every event has history behind it and leads directly to future events. If it was taught that way, I think people would find it way more interesting and it would lead to more learning and retention.

Unfortunately, if you want to make money, history just isn't a good degree to get. A bachelor's in history would qualify me for the job I have now. A masters will get you a high school teaching job, which is barely scraping a middle class paycheck most places. A doctorate will get you tenure at a university and academic credentials, and also a huge debt burden. I kind of would like to finish that degree someday, because I love learning about history, but I don't want to spend the money, because I would just never see a return on the investment.

Regarding the bolded, that took me until my early-20s to truly understand. I used to think history was rote memorization of facts that have little bearing on modern times, and I thought that all the way through high school and college. It wasn't until I became interested in history for myself that I truly dove in and learned what led to certain historical events, what transpired to get us to these points, and how the world moved past these big occurrences. There's a lot to be learned from both the successes and failures of those that came before us, but one has to be open to that knowledge for it to really take.

Tell me about it. I've been working as an Excel monkey for a solid four years, but I'm looking at becoming an English teacher once I'm finished with my master's. It will be a step down wage-wise, but at this point I need to be prioritizing my happiness and well-being over money. I'm lucky because my wife works at the university from which I'm receiving my master's and I get discounted tuition because of it, but that's not feasible for 99% of people out there. If university costs weren't so outrageous, I think a lot of people would be able to prioritize their happiness over money, and that's the type of society I want to live in.

 

[Moosehead1]

Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for history education in particular. I think American schools teach it all wrong, especially at the high school level. History is important. It's impossible to understand the world today without understanding its past. History isn't about what happened, it's about WHY it happened, and how every event has history behind it and leads directly to future events. If it was taught that way, I think people would find it way more interesting and it would lead to more learning and retention.

Unfortunately, if you want to make money, history just isn't a good degree to get. A bachelor's in history would qualify me for the job I have now. A masters will get you a high school teaching job, which is barely scraping a middle class paycheck most places. A doctorate will get you tenure at a university and academic credentials, and also a huge debt burden. I kind of would like to finish that degree someday, because I love learning about history, but I don't want to spend the money, because I would just never see a return on the investment.

Maybe politicians should be schooled as historians instead of lawyers. It bothers me that the country is run by lawyers.

 

[McMetal]

Regarding the bolded, that took me until my early-20s to truly understand. I used to think history was rote memorization of facts that have little bearing on modern times, and I thought that all the way through high school and college. It wasn't until I became interested in history for myself that I truly dove in and learned what led to certain historical events, what transpired to get us to these points, and how the world moved past these big occurrences. There's a lot to be learned from both the successes and failures of those that came before us, but one has to be open to that knowledge for it to really take.

Tell me about it. I've been working as an Excel monkey for a solid four years, but I'm looking at becoming an English teacher once I'm finished with my master's. It will be a step down wage-wise, but at this point I need to be prioritizing my happiness and well-being over money. I'm lucky because my wife works at the university from which I'm receiving my master's and I get discounted tuition because of it, but that's not feasible for 99% of people out there. If university costs weren't so outrageous, I think a lot of people would be able to prioritize their happiness over money, and that's the type of society I want to live in.

Exactly. People think history is about dates, as if it matters what exact day the atomic bomb was dropped on Hisoshima. What matters, really, is WHY the US thought that was necessary, the circumstances that led to them having that weapon in the first place, and the consequences the decision had in the decades afterward. But in high school, all they teach you is the date, because that's something you can put on a test.

My degree has nothing to do with my job now. Even if I did have a 4 year degree it wouldn't have mattered a whole lot to my job search. In some ways I'm glad I didn't spend the money on it, but like I said, it would be cool to be able to take some college courses just to learn more.

 

[McMetal]

Maybe politicians should be schooled as historians instead of lawyers. It bothers me that the country is run by lawyers.

That would make a huge difference. In some ways, being a bureaucrat is a valuable skill, and we need people like that to run a country. But we also need people who understand the past and have learned those lessons. If politicians had learned about the Gilded Age in high school instead of skipping directly from the Civil War to World War I, I think a lot of things about this country would be different. As it is, history is considered an esoteric and niche study for most people, and it shows.

 

[Richard88]

Regarding the bolded, that took me until my early-20s to truly understand. I used to think history was rote memorization of facts that have little bearing on modern times, and I thought that all the way through high school and college. It wasn't until I became interested in history for myself that I truly dove in and learned what led to certain historical events, what transpired to get us to these points, and how the world moved past these big occurrences. There's a lot to be learned from both the successes and failures of those that came before us, but one has to be open to that knowledge for it to really take.

Tell me about it. I've been working as an Excel monkey for a solid four years, but I'm looking at becoming an English teacher once I'm finished with my master's. It will be a step down wage-wise, but at this point I need to be prioritizing my happiness and well-being over money. I'm lucky because my wife works at the university from which I'm receiving my master's and I get discounted tuition because of it, but that's not feasible for 99% of people out there. If university costs weren't so outrageous, I think a lot of people would be able to prioritize their happiness over money, and that's the type of society I want to live in.

Understanding history is critical. As the saying goes, those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...

 

[Avsboy]

My first degree was in history and political science. Really liked medieval history in particular. An underrated period of history that greatly molded our modern structures of gender, virtue, money and power. Not to mention the effects of that period on modern military and political developments. For example, you can trace the lack of national unity in Germany all the way back to around 1000 AD, and that had huge effects in Napoleonic Wars and then WWI and WWII.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Maybe politicians should be schooled as historians instead of lawyers. It bothers me that the country is run by lawyers.

I’m not trying to be antagonistic or argumentative but historians are able to run for office.

Also, lawyers learn history along the way since so much of it is case law. By focusing on old court cases, they look at the “why” in a very focused way.

 

[Moosehead1]

I’m not trying to be antagonistic or argumentative but historians are able to run for office.

Also, lawyers learn history along the way since so much of it is case law. By focusing on old court cases, they look at the “why” in a very focused way.

I hear ya, I wasn’t implying that they can’t - just that it seems (without any proof) that most if not all of the house and the senate operate with law degrees. The rule of law is important but can also be abused by a small percentage of elites and that’s what we’re seeing right now. As it has, with my limited knowledge of history.

Edit: it’s an assumption I made, that historical evidence of past success and failure isn’t considered by the majority of politics. Just that it’s being meticulously manipulated.

 

[McMetal]

Understanding history is critical. As the saying goes, those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...

...and those who do learn history are doomed to watch others repeat it.

 

[Foppberg]

Like others have said, I also thought history was just arbitrary memorization of dates and events. Once I made the connection that it's about WHY something happened... so much better. If I was loaded and never really needed to worry about money I'd definitely go for a history degree just out of pure interest.

 

[henchman21]

History is that America has never had slavery and Washington is a god, right?

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Mental slavery is still alive and well in America

 

[Papa Francouz]

Exactly. People think history is about dates, as if it matters what exact day the atomic bomb was dropped on Hisoshima. What matters, really, is WHY the US thought that was necessary, the circumstances that led to them having that weapon in the first place, and the consequences the decision had in the decades afterward. But in high school, all they teach you is the date, because that's something you can put on a test.

My degree has nothing to do with my job now. Even if I did have a 4 year degree it wouldn't have mattered a whole lot to my job search. In some ways I'm glad I didn't spend the money on it, but like I said, it would be cool to be able to take some college courses just to learn more.

Pretty much. I don't remember any of the dates I was forced to memorize in school, but after looking into some history on my own, I can recall the context behind quite a few of the historical events that interested me enough to learn about them. I remember the AP history tests at the end of the year were all about dates and names and minute details of singular events that have occurred in either the U.S. or Europe, which is probably why I entered into my university studies with zero college credits from those AP classes.

Another cool function of history is drawing parallels between modern times and historical periods. A buddy of mine who studied history in college was able to contextualize a lot of current events from the frame of the early-1900s, and it kind of blew my mind when I would have conversations about history with him. I credit him with getting me interested in history after my less than ideal schooling on the subject.

Understanding history is critical. As the saying goes, those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...

Yup, I definitely agree! I just wish I didn't have to learn history in a boring way throughout my middle and high school years. If a teacher is able to teach history in an engaging way for teenagers, then that teacher is worth their weight in all sorts of overly heavy and comically large textbooks.

 

[Papa Francouz]

History is that America has never had slavery and Washington is a god, right?

Yes. We only elect deities in this country. That's why nothing bad has ever happened to anyone in all 245 years of this country's existence.