THE All Encompassing Jim Benning Thread Part III (Mod Post #175, 464, 625)

[The Stig]

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[BobbyJazzLegs]

Edit* and for someone to be declaring benning is entering a rebuild, then why aren't the additions of high priced veteran talent (vrbata and miller) being questioned by his adoring fans? These are half way measures similar to Toronto acquiring Kessel when they should have continued to stay young.

Who the **** wants to be Buffalo or Edmonton? Oh that's right, McDavid...

Hang on, who's McDavid on the LA Kings?

 

[The Optimist]

Hang on, who's McDavid on the LA Kings?

Doughty.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Who the **** wants to be Buffalo or Edmonton? Oh that's right, McDavid...

Hang on, who's McDavid on the LA Kings?

Those additions mean we are competing for a playoff spot, not rebuilding.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Doughty.

Touche

 

[mossey3535]

The way the rosters are shaping up, the only young talent that is going to get a shot is Vey. That's not a rebuild.

 

[dave babych returns]

This market, like Toronto, is never going to get an honest-to-goodness rebuild.

The only way we're going to get a top ten pick in any draft is by accident.

Even if Benning wanted this he'd have to hoodwink ownership into believing he didn't mean to run the team into the ground if he wanted to keep his job long enough to make his selection at the draft...

 

[TheOtherGuy]

The way the rosters are shaping up, the only young talent that is going to get a shot is Vey. That's not a rebuild.

We know injuries will happen. When those young players get called up as fill-ins, it's their job to kick the door in and make it difficult to send them back down.
I prefer it this way, as the alternative has been proven ineffective in other players (cough Oilers cough).

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Those additions mean we are competing for a playoff spot, not rebuilding.

So we're competing for a playoff spot, but we're screwed if we lose one dman?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Doughty.

I'll concede that one. Sort of.

 

[Barney Gumble]

So we're competing for a playoff spot, but we're screwed if we lose one dman?

Can't have it both ways.

Not if that dman is Edler.

 

[Nucker101]

Hope he has the green light to sell at the TDL if this team seems iffy for a playoff spot.

 

[Gormo]

The way the rosters are shaping up, the only young talent that is going to get a shot is Vey. That's not a rebuild.

I think its going to take a bit longer then one season. I always figured the results would be evident later on when our high end picks are ready to play.

In the meantime, the brass of any team is obligated to ice a competitive team. I seriously doubt any team actually intends on "tanking" at the onset of any season. You probably wont get the desired results for one thing. The trade deadline seems to be the ideal time to sell the present in exchange for the future.

 

[me2]

Doughty.

and BOOM goes the dynamite.

 

[me2]

Not if that dman is Edler.

and BOOM goes the c4

 

[kanucks25]

Then don't trade him. You can argue Kesler had to be moved, but the Garrison trade was idiotic. If nothing else, keep him for a few months to see if his value improves once he has a few games under his belt. I would certainly rather Garrison than Stanton or Sbisa. Corrado struggled last year in his limited opportunity. Why should we gift him a spot? Let him come in when an inevitable injury occurs and have him earn the spot by pushing someone else out. Right now, say Tanev or Hamhuis goes down.

They traded Garrison to use the cap space on Vrbata/Miller. I assume they felt like it was worth losing a bit of value to address weaknesses because defense is our strength.

And I meant they were making room for Corrado down the road, maybe (hopefully) starting in the 2015 season next year. Our top-4 guys are probably gonna be here for a while and Stanton is a good #5/6. That leaves a spot for Corrado to slide into. By the time Bieksa is done, we should have another kid ready or we can find one in free-agency.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

The way the rosters are shaping up, the only young talent that is going to get a shot is Vey. That's not a rebuild.

That's because we have nearly zero prospects ready to push for a job. You want to plug holes in the lineup with guys who aren't ready and risk ruining their development the way the Oilers have?

What young talent is losing a spot this year anyway? Horvat? He'll get a long look and if he's ready he'll play. Jensen? Not ready from what I saw. Everyone else needs at least a few seasons in the AHL.

What young player is losing a roster spot in your mind?

 

[Wilch]

This market, like Toronto, is never going to get an honest-to-goodness rebuild.

The only way we're going to get a top ten pick in any draft is by accident.

Even if Benning wanted this he'd have to hoodwink ownership into believing he didn't mean to run the team into the ground if he wanted to keep his job long enough to make his selection at the draft...

And that's exactly what I think Benning is doing. Rather than assuming he's an idiot, I had a sneaking suspicion he's opting for a "fake re-tool".

He opened up three gaping holes, replaced them with an unproven player in Vey, a soft scoring player who doesn't PK in Bonino, and a regular healthy scratch on a team not exactly lauded for its defensive depth in Sbisa.

He could have had a better futures package (10th) but would need to sacrifice Bonino in the return - which I doubt the ownership would allow.

His biggest UFA acquisition was Miller, who doesn't address this team's most dire needs.

He didn't opt for term heavy contracts and gave Vrbata and Miller large AAV.

On any other team, Vrbata would have gotten a 4~5 year deal for a much smaller cap hit.

I believe Benning thinks this team needs a rebuild, and this is "as low as he could possibly stoop" in an attempt to acquire a higher pick while "hoodwinking" the ownership - or at least the fans - into believing this team isn't attempting to tank.

 

[ugghhh]

And that's exactly what I think Benning is doing. Rather than assuming he's an idiot, I had a sneaking suspicion he's opting for a "fake re-tool".

He opened up three gaping holes, replaced them with an unproven player in Vey, a soft scoring player who doesn't PK in Bonino, and a regular healthy scratch on a team not exactly lauded for its defensive depth in Sbisa.

He could have had a better futures package (10th) but would need to sacrifice Bonino in the return - which I doubt the ownership would allow.

His biggest UFA acquisition was Miller, who doesn't address this team's most dire needs.

He didn't opt for term heavy contracts and gave Vrbata and Miller large AAV.

On any other team, Vrbata would have gotten a 4~5 year deal for a much smaller cap hit.

I believe Benning thinks this team needs a rebuild, and this is "as low as he could possibly stoop" in an attempt to acquire a higher pick while "hoodwinking" the ownership - or at least the fans - into believing this team isn't attempting to tank.

That's a stretch, to say the least.

 

[ddawg1950]

And that's exactly what I think Benning is doing. Rather than assuming he's an idiot, I had a sneaking suspicion he's opting for a "fake re-tool".

He opened up three gaping holes, replaced them with an unproven player in Vey, a soft scoring player who doesn't PK in Bonino, and a regular healthy scratch on a team not exactly lauded for its defensive depth in Sbisa.

He could have had a better futures package (10th) but would need to sacrifice Bonino in the return - which I doubt the ownership would allow.

His biggest UFA acquisition was Miller, who doesn't address this team's most dire needs.

He didn't opt for term heavy contracts and gave Vrbata and Miller large AAV.

On any other team, Vrbata would have gotten a 4~5 year deal for a much smaller cap hit.

I believe Benning thinks this team needs a rebuild, and this is "as low as he could possibly stoop" in an attempt to acquire a higher pick while "hoodwinking" the ownership - or at least the fans - into believing this team isn't attempting to tank.

Just can't see someone with a conscience...or a backbone, conduct business in this way.

 

[Wilch]

Just can't see someone with a conscience...or a backbone, conduct business in this way.

More often than not, business is about results and optics than principles.

Of course, that's under the assumption that Benning has guile and balls.

Then there's the possibility of him just making plain bad moves, with the team's likely failure being a by-product of his oversight and lack of experience.

That's a stretch, to say the least.

It is.

We'll never know.

Fun to speculate though.

 

[ddawg1950]

More often than not, business is about results and optics than principles.

Of course, that's under the assumption that Benning has guile and balls.

Then there's the possibility of him just making plain bad moves, with the team's likely failure being a by-product of his oversight .

Or this works out differently, on the ice, than you think it will.

At this point, I can be pretty agnostic. I can understand those that do not believe, because that was pretty ugly last year. I've never seen an entire organization from players, through the coaches to management, fall off a cliff like that. Hard not to be discouraged about the immediate future.

But on a bright sunny day in July, it is easy for me to believe.

 

[Verviticus]

And that's exactly what I think Benning is doing. Rather than assuming he's an idiot, I had a sneaking suspicion he's opting for a "fake re-tool".

yeah but he did a really ****** job because the canucks without insanely bad luck were good enough to get to the playoff and he hasn't really scuttled them

if i had two realities, a) jim benning wants to re-tool on the fly while making a good team for today and tomorrow or b) benning wants to 'fake re-tool', without questioning his motives i'd say he's a bigger idiot in the second one

 

[Wilch]

Or this works out differently, on the ice, than you think it will.

At this point, I can be pretty agnostic. I can understand those that do not believe, because that was pretty ugly last year. I've never seen an entire organization from players, through the coaches to management, fall off a cliff like that. Hard not to be discouraged about the immediate future.

But on a bright sunny day in July, it is easy for me to believe.

I won't be rehashing my previous posts, but there's little to be optimistic about here.

Our core players are at an age where there's only room to decline.

There may be a bounce back, but it's reasonable to expect a natural decline on top of that. If the Sedins were healthy and the team didn't suck, perhaps they would have had a 70 point season. I expect them to bounce back, but at the same time, I don't expect them to break the 80 points barrier. Same goes for Burrows, just different numbers.

Without the Sedins, this team is hopelessly bad at scoring goals. We have a large collection of grinders and green skill players. We have some good young players, but they're by no means elite offensively (Kass and Tanev) or are ready for the big club (Horvat, Shink and Virtanen).

This team, throughout the last few years, has relied almost exclusively on the Sedins to put up points while playing strong defense by committee to create a good scoring differential.

Now that our best PK/defensive center is gone on top of two other PK/defensive players in Garrison and Santorelli - we lost that edge which used to keep the Canucks somewhat competitive.

Of course, Benning replaced these guys with players who either never or rarely plays on the PK and are not relied upon defensively. Goaltending didn't help - but it's not the most dire problem this team is facing.

Without Kesler and Santorelli around, we're going to see Richardson and Burrows heavily used on the PK. Typically, you need 6 PK forwards, rotate between 3 units every time you clear the puck. When things get ugly (penalties or injuries), we'll see the likes of Bonino on the PK - or even force Henrik and play the PK.

Same goes with defense. Edler was absolutely putrid last year, and Bieksa hasn't been great either. Anytime Hamhuis and/or Tanev goes down, this team is going to get absolutely roasted. Offensive forwards will be licking their chops at the prospect of facing up against the likes of Sbisa, Stanton, Weber and a green rookie like Corrado.

These are moves that takes this franchise absolutely nowhere. It's like if a war veteran loses a pair of legs and the doctor decides to put a prosthetic arm on him - it makes no bloody sense.

 

[me2]

And that's exactly what I think Benning is doing. Rather than assuming he's an idiot, I had a sneaking suspicion he's opting for a "fake re-tool".

I believe Benning thinks this team needs a rebuild, and this is "as low as he could possibly stoop" in an attempt to acquire a higher pick while "hoodwinking" the ownership - or at least the fans - into believing this team isn't attempting to tank.

Hoodwinking ownership seems highly improbable.

Hoodwinking consumers is standard business practice.