The 2015-2016 Blues Discussion Thread - Part II
- Thread starter EastonBlues22
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2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
Responding to Robb's last post regarding how they just kind of gave up.
A new thought: were there players that were really bothered by the fact that Allen was in net? Did they feel Elliott deserved to be there, and it was reflected by the fact that they didn't truly trust Allen to the same level, and deflated when he let in ANOTHER crappy goal? Maybe there was more discord about that decision than we realized.
Allen handles the puck better, and the defense plays better in front of him in the sense that they can bust out with transition more fluidly. But man, it looked like the team had such a fragile confidence in the goaltending. (Not an excuse, just trying to understand how the team could fizzle out with such little apparent resistance.)
A new thought: were there players that were really bothered by the fact that Allen was in net? Did they feel Elliott deserved to be there, and it was reflected by the fact that they didn't truly trust Allen to the same level, and deflated when he let in ANOTHER crappy goal? Maybe there was more discord about that decision than we realized.
Allen handles the puck better, and the defense plays better in front of him in the sense that they can bust out with transition more fluidly. But man, it looked like the team had such a fragile confidence in the goaltending. (Not an excuse, just trying to understand how the team could fizzle out with such little apparent resistance.)
bleedblue1223
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- Jan 21, 2011
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I think people dig too deep into the goalie decisions. They don't let any personal feelings about who is starting affect them and the only time it possibly could would be if the goalie is so bad and everyone feels like they have to over-compensate to make up for it, which always becomes a disaster. That wasn't the case, they just straight-up got beat.
It's not like this team hasn't played with Elliott in the playoffs before, they've had 2 series' against LA with him, and they failed miserably in both.
Our problems seem complex, but in reality, they are quite simple, it's determining how to fix them that is the complex part. If a team has championship caliber talent and can't get behind whatever goalie is in net, then the team just doesn't have what it takes to win it all.
It's not like this team hasn't played with Elliott in the playoffs before, they've had 2 series' against LA with him, and they failed miserably in both.
Our problems seem complex, but in reality, they are quite simple, it's determining how to fix them that is the complex part. If a team has championship caliber talent and can't get behind whatever goalie is in net, then the team just doesn't have what it takes to win it all.
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That is so true. If our team goes down 0-2 or even sometimes 0-1 there's just complete deflation. Even if we had Hasek letting in that first goal. No one expects to come back. Chicago, LA, Anaheim know they can come back from anything and you see it translate. If LA had hit the playoffs they would have surely clicked into a higher gear and upset someone (like us) just because they know they can. Heck, I even see that same attitude from the skaters on Dallas, Detroit, and Philly. And Philly was horrible.
Maybe it's because all of those teams have a superstar center, I don't know. We do have Tarasenko now scoring clutch goals, but it hasn't seemed to change the overall team atmosphere. I guess everyone just kind of knows that if we go down 0-2 it's not going to be Backes bringing us back, it's not going to be Oshie, it won't be any of these core guys. It won't be Steve Ott shoehorned onto the top line or Patrick Berglund dumping the puck. And that's the leadership core we have: guys that no one expects to actually do anything except hit when the team gets behind the 8-ball. How can you win 4 series in a row like that? They've got to get better leadership in the top 6.
Trade Backes and Oshie for Taylor Hall and a Number 1 pick.
Hall Stastny Tarasenko
Schwartz Lehtera Jaskin
Barbashev Fabbri Rattie
Hall Stastny Tarasenko
Schwartz Lehtera Jaskin
Barbashev Fabbri Rattie
Steen? Berglund? I don't think you're getting anything on top of Hall with that package...unless it's a small plus. If Backes were extended, perhaps.
Oberyn
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Captain Creampuff
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Hall isn't being traded. He's an incredible player and will be playing alongside McDavid for the next 15 years. If you want an Oiler winger you're better off going after Yak or Eberle.
izzy
go
RORbacon
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OT will now be 3 on 3 for 5 minutes, no 4 on 4. What combinations do you think we would try?
IMO, this team should run 2 forwards and 1 defenseman.
Tarasenko, Schwartz & Shatty.....
Statsny, Steen, Petro
RORbacon
Registered User
I don't care if its a gimmick or not. I watch hockey for the pure enjoyment rather than the nostalgia of the sport, and the few times I have seen 3 on 3 it was the most thrilling back and forth action I've seen in a long time. I guess I'm not a hockey purist... but so be it. 
I don't care if its a gimmick or not. I watch hockey for the pure enjoyment rather than the nostalgia of the sport, and the few times I have seen 3 on 3 it was the most thrilling back and forth action I've seen in a long time. I guess I'm not a hockey purist... but so be it.
There's nothing wrong with that at all. Me not enjoying it or you enjoying it doesn't make either of us more or less of a fan or a "hockey purist".
RORbacon
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Didn't mean to lash. There was a sarcastic tone that somehow didn't transfer from my keyboard to yours.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
oh no i didn't take it like that at all, no worries.
EastonBlues22 said:
People who watch soccer claim it works well in those leagues. On the other hand it's adding even more complications into a sport that should be looking to remove unnecessary confusing aspects to keep / increase casual viewers. I don't know. I never saw what was wrong with a hard fought game ending in a tie.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
The KHL uses it as well.
Is it really that much more complicated than what we're currently doing? We're already tracking ROW separately for tie-breaking purposes.
Give the biggest reward to those teams that can win in regulation. If it turns into an exhibition, the teams split the reward. Punishes the "make it to overtime and take your chances" mentality, at least relative to the current system.
Makes sense to me.
Brian39
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OT will now be 3 on 3 for 5 minutes, no 4 on 4. What combinations do you think we would try?
IMO, this team should run 2 forwards and 1 defenseman.
Tarasenko, Schwartz & Shatty.....
Statsny, Steen, Petro
I have to think Oshie's trade value just took a hit. The best aspect of his game just got significantly reduced.
Captain Creampuff
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2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
I agree.I don't care if its a gimmick or not. I watch hockey for the pure enjoyment rather than the nostalgia of the sport, and the few times I have seen 3 on 3 it was the most thrilling back and forth action I've seen in a long time. I guess I'm not a hockey purist... but so be it.
Majorityof1
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<Sigh> How can we hope to educate other team's fans on the trade main board when our own fans buy into that stupid label of Oshie as a shoot-out specialist. Because a 60 point solid 2 way forward has no value absent the shoot-out.
It doesn't seem like anyone is giving credit to playing 2D + 1C. That was more successful in the AHL than 2F + 1D. I could see the Blues running Steen + Shattenkirk + Pietrangelo.
It's basically trading odd man rushes and I can't see that being a great environment for Tarasenko, Lehtera, or Backes. Tarasenko would be magical on offense obviously but on the other end I don't think he'd keep up.
It's basically trading odd man rushes and I can't see that being a great environment for Tarasenko, Lehtera, or Backes. Tarasenko would be magical on offense obviously but on the other end I don't think he'd keep up.
Brian39
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<Sigh> How can we hope to educate other team's fans on the trade main board when our own fans buy into that stupid label of Oshie as a shoot-out specialist. Because a 60 point solid 2 way forward has no value absent the shoot-out.
Where again did I say he has no value? Where did I label him a shootout specialist?
He has plenty of value in the first 65 minutes, but pretending like he isn't great at shootouts is stupid. There are at least 30 other forwards in the NHL that can do what Oshie can do during the first 65 minutes. There are no more than 5 guys that can do what he can do in the shootout. That absolutely has value, especially since he is far from a liability during the actual hockey game like many 'shootout specialists'.
His shootout ability is an asset that separates him from other 55 point players who play a strong 2 way game. That asset just became much less important.
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