The 2013-2014 Blues Discussion Thread - Part III

[EastonBlues22]

Part II

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[PocketNines]

I feel that TJ Oshie is having an unappreciated season relative to others on the team.

He's on pace for something like 12 goals, 60 assists.

He's managing to be an instrumental part of tons of scoring plays while playing PP, PK. Even as much as he falls down (avg of eight times per shift) he's really been a "do what it takes to win" guy on this roster who we'd badly miss if he were injured.

 

[ManyIdeas]

I feel that TJ Oshie is having an unappreciated season relative to others on the team.

He's on pace for something like 12 goals, 60 assists.

He's managing to be an instrumental part of tons of scoring plays while playing PP, PK. Even as much as he falls down (avg of eight times per shift) he's really been a "do what it takes to win" guy on this roster who we'd badly miss if he were injured.

Honestly, I was reflecting on everything the other day. No one on the team is playing poorly. Bergie is fine defensively and solid on the cycle. Stewie, when on the PP, is a solid net presence and is actually forechecking for once. Still bad on the cycle, but he isn't destroying offensive chances as he was last season.

Those really are the two "worst" players on our team, and I really can't complain about it. I'd imagine everyone knew they were streaky coming in, but so far their numbers aren't THAT bad.

I don't feel like I should even really mention anyone else, because everyone else has been noticeably solid. There are occasional boneheaded plays by everyone, but they seem fairly rare. Defensemen have been good, especially since the pairings were "fixed". Cole and Leopold have helped Polak out significantly and Jax/Shatty(once they fixed their timing issues) have been greatish.

 

[PocketNines]

Two more scoreless games for Stewart and he'll be on his exact putrid 11-12 scoring pace of 30 pts in 79 games. If he made 2.2M-ish it'd be much more legitimate.

 

[ManyIdeas]

I do understand the complaints about Stewart's points compared to his money. But honestly his overall game has improved and I personally feel like he's due to start scoring eventually.

 

[ExJbeck]

I do understand the complaints about Stewart's points compared to his money. But honestly his overall game has improved and I personally feel like he's due to start scoring eventually.

Not if you don't shoot.

 

[PocketNines]

With the Sharks losing at Pittsburgh and Carolina, and the Hawks dropping two in regulation in a row, the Blues are back on top of the standings though it's a little hollow having been blown out by the Sharks twice.

1. Blues .759
2. Sharks .741
Hawks even if they beat the Ducks are .742

 

[PocketNines]

Brian Elliott is a superior goalie to Jaroslav Halak. It was always true, and it is a fact. I've spoken my piece and counted to three.

 

[BlueDream]

I do like Oshie's game this season. He plays hard, and I have never doubted his passion for the game because I think he cares a lot and has for a while, but this season he definitely looks like more of a leader to me. I don't have much evidence to base this off of but his game is at a higher level and he seems to be wearing the 'A' in stride. He won't ever be a goal scorer but he helps make them happen. He's always given it 100% on the ice but this year it looks like he's giving even more, IMO.

 

[ExJbeck]

I'll just say that I think everyone minus Berglund and Stewart are just fine on this roster. Berglund just flat out does not move his legs. He doesn't understand hustle, compete, will, anything that Hitch is preaching to the players. Hitch always says hard work before skill, well Berglund's flat out afraid of hard work. Berglund is not and should not be our #3 center. I know he's capable of filling that role, but there is absolutely no reason to pay him to be here when we have Sobotka. The only thing I have left to say is that he is playing as our #4 C right now, which says a lot about how the coaches feel about him.

Nothing needs to be said about Stewart.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I'll just say that I think everyone minus Berglund and Stewart are just fine on this roster. Berglund just flat out does not move his legs. He doesn't understand hustle, compete, will, anything that Hitch is preaching to the players. Hitch always says hard work before skill, well Berglund's flat out afraid of hard work. Berglund is not and should not be our #3 center. I know he's capable of filling that role, but there is absolutely no reason to pay him to be here when we have Sobotka. The only thing I have left to say is that he is playing as our #4 C right now, which says a lot about how the coaches feel about him.

Nothing needs to be said about Stewart.

Don't forget that he never has his stick on the ice, thus missing easy passes/opportunities.

 

[erderuft]

I'll just say that I think everyone minus Berglund and Stewart are just fine on this roster. Berglund just flat out does not move his legs. He doesn't understand hustle, compete, will, anything that Hitch is preaching to the players. Hitch always says hard work before skill, well Berglund's flat out afraid of hard work. Berglund is not and should not be our #3 center. I know he's capable of filling that role, but there is absolutely no reason to pay him to be here when we have Sobotka. The only thing I have left to say is that he is playing as our #4 C right now, which says a lot about how the coaches feel about him.

Nothing needs to be said about Stewart.

So he didn't hustle and compete enough to score a goal last night while the rest of the squad did nothing? Berglund competes with the best of them, he's just not a very strong skater is all.

Jeebus, you guys needs to calm down after a loss. It's this one's fault, it's that one's fault. Trade him for a bag of pucks, trade that other guy for anyone! It's like we are the worst team in the league or something.

 

[brendan]

Brian Elliott is a superior goalie to Jaroslav Halak. It was always true, and it is a fact. I've spoken my piece and counted to three.

Oh dear, you must be joking.

 

[taylord22]

I feel that TJ Oshie is having an unappreciated season relative to others on the team.

He's on pace for something like 12 goals, 60 assists.

He's managing to be an instrumental part of tons of scoring plays while playing PP, PK. Even as much as he falls down (avg of eight times per shift) he's really been a "do what it takes to win" guy on this roster who we'd badly miss if he were injured.

One aspect of playing college hockey that I think hurts some players is that you have less guys with NHL caliber attributes. He was 'the' guy to get the puck to at ND after Toews left, and I don't think he ever really had a chance to explore his playmaking ability.

Over the years, I've been impressed with his play off the half-wall, and even said that I think he's likely the best 'playmaker' the team had. For whatever reason, he's grabbed that role this season and is really excelling. It's nice to see.

Similarly, David Backes is quietly having a brilliant season. There aren't many players out there that are able to adapt their game to produce some type of impact — be it physically, defensively, or offensively.

 

[Colt 55]

Brian Elliott is a superior goalie to Jaroslav Halak. It was always true, and it is a fact. I've spoken my piece and counted to three.

No, it is certainly not a fact. If it were a fact Elliot would be our starter, but he isn't, because Halak is a better goalie. You may not see it that way, but Hitch certainly sees it that way, and so does Armstrong, and I will trust their judgment over yours, as I am sure most Blues fans will. I will give you that Elliot seems to be more consistent with his game than Halak, but you also have to look at the sample size, which he has much less of than Halak this season.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

No, it is certainly not a fact. If it were a fact Elliot would be our starter, but he isn't, because Halak is a better goalie. You may not see it that way, but Hitch certainly sees it that way, and so does Armstrong, and I will trust their judgment over yours, as I am sure most Blues fans will. I will give you that Elliot seems to be more consistent with his game than Halak, but you also have to look at the sample size, which he has much less of than Halak this season.

First off, your logic is ridiculous. You admit that you think Elliott has looked better this year (not to mention all the other years both of them have been here) but then say that since we're starting Halak, Halak must be better. Come on man. Hitchcock's proven that his biggest weakness is roster decisions. (Brendan Morrow gets more PP time then Schwartz and Tarasenko combined? You kidding me?)

This exact line of reasoning is something I've been thinking about a lot recently; I was even thinking of starting a post called, "What does Elliott have to do to prove he could be our #1 goalie?"

I've watched both Elliott (3 years) and Halak (4 years) play for this team. Throwing out the beginning of the lock-out shortened season (When both were terrible, but not only that, a lot of goalies were terrible due to the time off) Elliott has been the clearly better goalie, both by statistics and by the "eye test"

Army, as with anyone who is in a position of great power like a GM, wants to prove that his ideas are right. He brought in both Elliott and Halak, but he had to give away prized assets (In this case perhaps our best Center prospect in a decade) for Halak, and he touted Halak as, "The Guy." For him to move on from Halak (Whom he's not going to get a great Center prospect for, since his value is much much much much much lower then it was after that play-off run) is admitting he was wrong, something I don't see Army being very good at doing.

I'd be perfectly comfortable with Elliott getting the lion's share of the starts for the rest of the season, worked out pretty well last season IIRC.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Halak is better and Elliott hasn't proven he can be a starter in a non-tandem role. Elliott playing 50+ games will definitely have stretches of horrible Elliott.

 

[Colt 55]

Halak is better and Elliott hasn't proven he can be a starter in a non-tandem role. Elliott playing 50+ games will definitely have stretches of horrible Elliott.

And horrible Elliot is much worse than Horrible Halak, but that isn't a strong argument to compare the two.

 

[ExJbeck]

So he didn't hustle and compete enough to score a goal last night while the rest of the squad did nothing? Berglund competes with the best of them, he's just not a very strong skater is all.

I agree with him not being a strong skater, but really he doesn't compete with anyone. I've rarely given the guy and credit at all and most of it stem from him not moving his legs. He's bad. Nearly as unproductive game in and out as Stewart. And he's playing on the 4th line for obvious reasons. He's stopping himself and he's going to be gone soon enough. This team is trying to win not drag Stewart and Berglund.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

Brian Elliott is a superior goalie to Jaroslav Halak. It was always true, and it is a fact. I've spoken my piece and counted to three.

Yea, I don't think so.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And horrible Elliot is much worse than Horrible Halak, but that isn't a strong argument to compare the two.

Saying Halak is better suited to be a #1 is a strong argument though.

 

[Colt 55]

First off, your logic is ridiculous. You admit that you think Elliott has looked better this year (not to mention all the other years both of them have been here) but then say that since we're starting Halak, Halak must be better. Come on man. Hitchcock's proven that his biggest weakness is roster decisions. (Brendan Morrow gets more PP time then Schwartz and Tarasenko combined? You kidding me?)

This exact line of reasoning is something I've been thinking about a lot recently; I was even thinking of starting a post called, "What does Elliott have to do to prove he could be our #1 goalie?"

I've watched both Elliott (3 years) and Halak (4 years) play for this team. Throwing out the beginning of the lock-out shortened season (When both were terrible, but not only that, a lot of goalies were terrible due to the time off) Elliott has been the clearly better goalie, both by statistics and by the "eye test"

Army, as with anyone who is in a position of great power like a GM, wants to prove that his ideas are right. He brought in both Elliott and Halak, but he had to give away prized assets (In this case perhaps our best Center prospect in a decade) for Halak, and he touted Halak as, "The Guy." For him to move on from Halak (Whom he's not going to get a great Center prospect for, since his value is much much much much much lower then it was after that play-off run) is admitting he was wrong, something I don't see Army being very good at doing.

I'd be perfectly comfortable with Elliott getting the lion's share of the starts for the rest of the season, worked out pretty well last season IIRC.

First off, I never said Elliot was playing better than Halak this year, I said he has played well in the few opportunities he has received. If you gave the lions share of starts to Elliot I think he would be exposed greatly, he is much better suited for a backup role IMHO.

Last year, we lost 4 games in a row to the LA Kings, you don't think Elliot had anything to do with that?

 

[Captain Creampuff]

What makes Halak a better goalie than Elliott? I'm curious what qualities he possesses but Elliott does not because in their time here Elliott has done just as much if not better than Halak.

 

[brendan]

If Elliott were to be a starter, this season would be a travesty. He can't carry an entire load. As a starting goalie, he's awful.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I hardly know how to engage with this forum these days. It feels so reactionary and extreme around here lately. Its a different standard for the dialogue here than what we've seen in years past. Its nice to see more fan interest, but I'm not often sure where to jump in and try to engage without having to go to an extreme opinion.

The Blues are in a rough stretch, not completely consistent. But if you look around the standings that seems to be happening with virtually everyone. San Jose, Chicago, Colorado, etc: they're all losing games sometimes in ugly fashion. Its a long season. Its hard to keep the edge night in and night out. I think the Blues are in one of those periods where they need to regroup and refocus. Losing helps you do that a lot easier than winning. The silver lining is that thus far there are no long term injuries to anyone with a core role.

I'm very interested what Armstrong will do on the trade front. I think Miller is a decent option, but Buffalo is asking too much for what would be a marginal upgrade for the Blues.

I believe he's on the market for a top 6 center, in the same way he was on the market for a top pairing LHD partner for Pietro. That lasted a couple seasons. He tried to fill the void in UFA, but the asking prices were ridiculous, until finally the Bouwmeester opportunity opened up.

When will the right deal be there for a center? Not sure. I think Lecavalier would have been the right guy. Roy is productive, but he's not filling the role that is the Blues' biggest hole right now. I don't see him back after this season, not unless he takes a big pay cut for a bottom 6 and PP role as a winger. More likely Jaskin is in there instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't do anything if the right deal isn't there. It will frustrate a lot of fans, but its a distinct possibility.