The ‘terrible Flyers defence’.... not all that terrible

[1865]

...has somewhat surprisingly conceded the second fewest number of goals in the Met and the fourth fewest in the East.

Weve got our problems still for sure, but it seems that the rumours of our defensive frailties were slightly exaggerated.

Click to read more...

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Two words, Bryan Elliott.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Multiple words:

Brandon Manning
Andrew MacDonald

(P.S. Hurry up and develop Myers and Morin. We need you)

 

[ChiefWiggum]

My rankings of our defense:

1) Provorov
2) Gostisbehere
3) Gudas (right now)
4) Sanheim
5) Hagg
6) MacDonald
7) Manning

I'm very impressed with Hagg defensively but what holds him back is his lack of speed.

Sanheim hasnt been the offensive force that he was in junior, but that may come around and he will shore up his game defensively.

Finally, the pleasant relief that Ghost was not a one hit wonder in his rookie year is great for Flyers fans. He has been great this year.

 

[naruto]

They are not terrible. They are overrated though.

 

[joe dirte]

They are not terrible. They are overrated though.

exactly. fairly average right now. they will get better and may end up as among the best in the NHL. but that's a ways off and may never happen at all.

but the hype they've gotten out of flyers fans is WAAAAAYYYY over the top. a poster in another thread suggested that if they got karlsson in a firesale their defense would be the best in the entire history of the NHL. i get that it's just one poster but the general sentiments of flyers fans is way out of control.

 

[Viqsi]

They are not terrible. They are overrated though.

Only in the sense that some folks still can't tell the difference between what a prospect is now and what a prospect is expected to be, and so when they inevitably presume that discussion of the latter is supposed to represent the former and discover that that's not actually the case, they blame the discussers rather than their own preconception.

 

[joe dirte]

Only in the sense that some folks still can't tell the difference between what a prospect is now and what a prospect is expected to be, and so when they inevitably presume that discussion of the latter is supposed to represent the former and discover that that's not actually the case, they blame the discussers rather than their own preconception.

I would day that the problem also lies in how fans see prospects for what they could potentially be and for whatvthe are reasonably expected to be, and build elite lineups in their head that will probably never come to fruition.

don't get me wrong, that's not limited to flyers fans.

 

[Viqsi]

I would day that the problem also lies in how fans see prospects for what they could potentially be and for whatvthe are reasonably expected to be, and build elite lineups in their head that will probably never come to fruition.

There is that, also. But that has relatively less of an impact when discussing the state of the team as it is now.

 

[Lotusflower]

The inklings of greatness are there already. Provorov and Ghost are already top pairing. Gudas may not be around longterm but he's an excellent middle pair guy. Sanheim has had an underrated rookie season despite his deployment by the dip**** coaching staff.

Hagg isn't much but he doesn't have to be necessarily. He'd be better off if it wasn't for the abovementioned dip**** coaching staff.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

I think Elliott is top 5 in goals saved above replacement

 

[joe dirte]

There is that, also. But that has relatively less of an impact when discussing the state of the team as it is now.

the state of them now is that they're relatively middle of the road in the NHL in most defensive metrics (with a few very good defensive forwards on the team to boot), and relatively middle of the road in terms of offensive contribution from the backend (maybe even below average).

So im pretty comfortable saying they're a rather average defense right now.

I may be wrong on this but I haven't seen any claims that they're bad as a group either though.

 

[Gsus]

They are not terrible. They are overrated though.

This is a tunnel visioned comment.

 

[mikeyp24]

The inklings of greatness are there already. Provorov and Ghost are already top pairing. Gudas may not be around longterm but he's an excellent middle pair guy. Sanheim has had an underrated rookie season despite his deployment by the dip**** coaching staff.

Hagg isn't much but he doesn't have to be necessarily. He'd be better off if it wasn't for the abovementioned dip**** coaching staff.

See that's the thing though is Ghost really top pairing or is he currently playing there and thats what you mean. Ghost is as elite of a offensive minded D as you will find but the kid has leaps and bounds to go before he could ever be considered top pair defensive talent. He's currently a PP specialist. He has the talent defensively from what I've seen as about a #5 guy. But he is raw and can grow he is still young enough to become that say #3 who QBs the top PP in the league. But saying Ghost is top pair talent NOW is part of what people are saying by over rating. Provy is right there. He's playing there and producing 5v5 because how many minutes they are putting him out there. I'd say he is pretty close to where it's not worth arguing though.


They have the potential for a great D. I think it is no longer what people used to think it was going to be BUT still a great young group.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

wait up what? they are allowing that few goals?

so why are they tied for last in the metro?

 

[snipes]

Only in the sense that some folks still can't tell the difference between what a prospect is now and what a prospect is expected to be, and so when they inevitably presume that discussion of the latter is supposed to represent the former and discover that that's not actually the case, they blame the discussers rather than their own preconception.

Good post

 

[Appleyard]

Two words, Bryan Elliott.

Not just him though... at 5v5 the defense has been pretty great

1.84 GA/60 (Best in NHL)
2.22 ExGA/60 (7th best in NHL)


The kids are alright... what a lot of us hoped would happen has happened. As they gradually replaced the dead-weight older Dmen with youth the defense has just kept getting better.

Gudas, Sanheim, Hagg, Provorov and Ghost all have ExGA/60 under 2.3... which is very good.

Gudas actually has the best ExGA/60 of any NHL defenseman. (1.67)

MacDonald is the only regular defenseman with an EXGA/60 worse than league average. (he is at 2.41)

 

[Appleyard]

wait up what? they are allowing that few goals?

so why are they tied for last in the metro?

No one can score at 5v5 apart from Giroux, Voracek and Couturier... (and the defense)

the middle six has been a comedy show most of the year (the '4th' line of Leier-Laughton-Raffl has been great... though now they have been broken up and spread about.)

Also the penalty kill is (and has been since our current PK coach took over) awful.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

No one can score at 5v5 apart from Giroux, Voracek and Couturier... (and the defense)

the middle six has been a comedy show most of the year (the '4th' line of Leier-Laughton-Raffl has been great... though now they have been broken up and spread about.)

Also the penalty kill is (and has been since our current PK coach took over) awful.

whats up with guys like Simmonds, Patrick, filppula, konecny, weal?

 

[Appleyard]

whats up with guys like Simmonds, Patrick, filppula, konecny, weal?

Not one of them are playdrivers/possesion guys. I think that is a lot of what it comes down to.

You cannot score when you have trouble getting into the OZ and staying there no matter how talented you might be.

Most of the season our best 3 play-drivers (Giroux, Couturier and Voracek) were on a line together... and our 4th best (Raffl) was stuck on the 4th line.

In turn it seemed really a bad mix of chemistry.

The last few games moving Voracek to the '2nd' line has helped a bit and spread the wealth.

Plus Filppula is not a 2C... ideally he would be at 3C or middle six LW.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Not one of them are playdrivers/possesion guys. I think that is a lot of what it comes down to.

You cannot score when you have trouble getting into the OZ and staying there no matter how talented you might be.

Most of the season our best 3 play-drivers (Giroux, Couturier and Voracek) were on a line together... and our 4th best (Raffl) was stuck on the 4th line.

The last few games moving Voracek to the '2nd' line has helped a bit and spread the wealth.

Plus Filppula is not a 2C... ideally he would be at 3C or middle six LW.

yes I agree flipper should be a 3c

still though they should be decent

whats up with konecny? just the ol sophomore slump?

 

[Appleyard]

yes I agree flipper should be a 3c

still though they should be decent

whats up with konecny? just the ol sophomore slump?

Konecny has been pretty good tbh... probably the best of the middle sixers most of the season. Creates a lot when on ice but a lot of the time this year has had to do everything himself through NZ and getting into NZ. He looks better than last year overall.

Simmonds was playing injured for ~15 games or so too which does not help.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Konecny has been pretty good tbh... probably the best of the middle sixers most of the season. Creates a lot when on ice but a lot of the time this year has had to do everything himself through NZ and getting into NZ. He looks better than last year overall.

Simmonds was playing injured for ~15 games or so too which does not help.

ah makes sense

 

[rent free]

wait up what? they are allowing that few goals?

so why are they tied for last in the metro?

Because they can't score Andy their special teams Suck

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Because they can't score Andy their special teams Suck

andy???