Texas and Oklahoma rivalries...

[ArmadilloThumb]

Bouncing off another thread that mentions Austin as a quality expansion candidate. Great population growth, high incomes, huge tech corporation presence and no big four pro teams.

Someone mentioned issue with UofT... that could actually be the biggest boost, if negotiated properly. If the team were called Texas - just Texas - and were allowed to use the UofT colors it would instantly have in state rivalries with Dallas and any Houston team. Fans would align along college loyalties and if they could ever get an NHL team in Oklahoma... war, I tell you...

With Texas projected to go over 40 million people by 2035 there would be gold in having three teams there. If Oklahoma could have a team and also align with OU they would leapfrog the Thunder.

These rivalries are real and deep. The NHL or the teams should fund D1 teams at both schools...

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[Yukon Joe]

Bouncing off another thread that mentions Austin as a quality expansion candidate. Great population growth, high incomes, huge tech corporation presence and no big four pro teams.

Someone mentioned issue with UofT... that could actually be the biggest boost, if negotiated properly. If the team were called Texas - just Texas - and were allowed to use the UofT colors it would instantly have in state rivalries with Dallas and any Houston team. Fans would align along college loyalties and if they could ever get an NHL team in Oklahoma... war, I tell you...

With Texas projected to go over 40 million people by 2035 there would be gold in having three teams there. If Oklahoma could have a team and also align with OU they would leapfrog the Thunder.

These rivalries are real and deep. The NHL or the teams should fund D1 teams at both schools...

So on the one hand you aren't necessarily wrong - if you could align with the U of T (or OU) you'd tap into a built-in fanbase.

Where I think you're wrong though is you're missing out on trademark and merchandising. First of all as a name you can't trademark "Texas" - for obvious reasons. You can't trademark a single colour like burnt orange. You'd have tons of people coming to your games wearing burnt orange - but it almost certainly is all UT stuff that you haven't made a dime on.

Remember that Columbus did not go that route - they have a very separate identity from Ohio State.

Finally - I'm not convinced that UT would want to play ball. They're very much used to being the top dog in that market - I'm not sure they'd want to share.

 

[johnintx]

Bouncing off another thread that mentions Austin as a quality expansion candidate. Great population growth, high incomes, huge tech corporation presence and no big four pro teams.

Someone mentioned issue with UofT... that could actually be the biggest boost, if negotiated properly. If the team were called Texas - just Texas - and were allowed to use the UofT colors it would instantly have in state rivalries with Dallas and any Houston team. Fans would align along college loyalties and if they could ever get an NHL team in Oklahoma... war, I tell you...

With Texas projected to go over 40 million people by 2035 there would be gold in having three teams there. If Oklahoma could have a team and also align with OU they would leapfrog the Thunder.

These rivalries are real and deep. The NHL or the teams should fund D1 teams at both schools...

I grew up outside OKC. I live in Houston now. We moved here from Dallas. I'm still a Stars fan.

The other poster is right: UT's not going to cooperate with a competitor, which is what an NHL team would be. Austin can support the NHL, without a doubt. But such a team wouldn't be riding the backs of the Texas Longhorns.

Re: OKC. The city did indeed approve a new arena. But, at 1.5 million and a statewide population of 4 million, there's not room for two big-time college programs, the NBA, and the NHL. OKC will be way down the list for expansion. OKC was a great minor league hockey town, though. The NBA got there before the NHL.

When the Thunder went in, they purposely marketed to fans of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Their colors are blue and red-orange. The blue represents the Oklahoma flag. The red-orange is a mashup of OU crimson and OSU bright orange.

But I love, love, love the idea of Division 1 hockey at both OU and UT. It won't happen without funding from the NHL. Chances of that are slim to none.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Why would they try to steal UT's identity? They need to create their own, like Austin FC have.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Fair points by all, and admittedly I'm just spitballin' a concept here.

Agree the biggest issue would be UT buy in. If they viewed it as accretive and a win-win maybe it's an avenue. Maybe something a step down, call them the Texas 'horns and share some brand elements.

Main point is to maximize the potential for hockey in the Southern Plains. With the population growth and the embrace of hockey that has occurred it could be a boon to the league and get thousands of kids playing.

My first thought was aligning teams loosely with existing rivalries. That would be fun for all.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Another approach for an Austin team could be market them as Central Texas to try and capture both the Austin and San Antonio markets. Possibly emphasize Tejano elements in the brand and that could help growth with Hispanic Americans - this would have synergy with Arizona if the Coyotes stay put, and continue their outreach to that market in the Southwest.

So much potential to share hockey with more and more folks!

 

[KevFu]

I've often thought about the concept... like in Europe, a lot of pro sports originated with what amounted to gyms playing each other, and across multiple sports (A friend of mine played pro basketball in Croatia and her future husband was on the same club's pro men's volleyball team).

You see Manchester City vs Manchester United... in the Premier League, but also the women's league, the youth academy league.

Here, you have cities with the same owners (Leafs, Raptors and kinda Blue Jays)
Or with similar colors (Penguins, Steelers, Pirates all wear black & gold in Pittsburgh).
Or similar themed branding (Astros/Rockets, Bears/Cubs, Suns/Mercury).

It would be really cool if our sports were like these big sports clubs like that. "Campuses of pro athletes." I just never added in the "at actual college campuses" part.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It would be really cool if our sports were like these big sports clubs like that. "Campuses of pro athletes." I just never added in the "at actual college campuses" part.

I mean you're right. That would be kind of cool. Like just on a minor scale, in Calgary both the Flames and the CFL Stampeders are owned by the same group, and both have red as their dominant colour.

But it's like any time someone says that having soccer-style promotion/relegation would be cool. I agree - it would be cool. But because of the way that sports have developed in north america over the last, what, 150 years? It'll never happen.

 

[Reaser]

I've often thought about the concept... like in Europe, a lot of pro sports originated with what amounted to gyms playing each other, and across multiple sports

It would be really cool if our sports were like these big sports clubs like that. "Campuses of pro athletes." I just never added in the "at actual college campuses" part.

That's how a lot of pro sports originated in North America, too.

It just didn't develop from there the same way as Europe. People have a lot of different ideas on why, but I've always stuck with how big of a role colleges/universities had/have in our sports and that's where a lot of things originated on the "amateur" side here (or McGill up north, and what became Ivy League schools here, etc..) so the athletic clubs that went pro, by choice or by being found to have been paying players, couldn't compete financially with sport specific pro teams and/or thought paying players wasn't a good use of their club finances, and the athletic clubs that stayed amateur largely became irrelevant because either they weren't professional, or moreso on the 'amateur' side because the relevant amateur sports were being played at colleges/universities -- and of course high school sports became a bigger deal, etc..

Not a unique concept or original thought. We already had it. Not just in the U.S.. Canada had amatuer athletic clubs, too. Ottawa Capitals that challenged for the Stanley Cup were the same Ottawa club that won the Minto Cup, etc..

 

[Spydey629]

Another approach for an Austin team could be market them as Central Texas to try and capture both the Austin and San Antonio markets. Possibly emphasize Tejano elements in the brand and that could help growth with Hispanic Americans - this would have synergy with Arizona if the Coyotes stay put, and continue their outreach to that market in the Southwest.

So much potential to share hockey with more and more folks!

Back in high school (late 90's), my best friend and I drew up jerseys, logos, and unis for a San Antonio expansion team. We were huge fans of the Eagles (the band - and still are), and used them as inspiration.

We called them the San Antonio Desperados. A cowboy riding a fence line as the primary logo, with a Queen of Hearts playing card as the shoulder logo. Being the 90's, the color scheme was the goat head Buffalo Sabres black, red, and silver.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Back in high school (late 90's), my best friend and I drew up jerseys, logos, and unis for a San Antonio expansion team. We were huge fans of the Eagles (the band - and still are), and used them as inspiration.

We called them the San Antonio Desperados. A cowboy riding a fence line as the primary logo, with a Queen of Hearts playing card as the shoulder logo. Being the 90's, the color scheme was the goat head Buffalo Sabres black, red, and silver.

Sounds a lot like the old CFL San Antonio Texans. Not quite the same colour scheme (they used the even more 90s-purple and teal), but pretty close.

 

[Spydey629]

Sounds a lot like the old CFL San Antonio Texans. Not quite the same colour scheme (they used the even more 90s-purple and teal), but pretty close.

The doodle I did up had a the silhouette of a cowboy riding a fence line. And it's hockey, so it had to feature a roundel, so he was against a sunset. But I forgot about the CFL team. They may have been hanging around in the back of my mind for inspiration.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The doodle I did up had a the silhouette of a cowboy riding a fence line. And it's hockey, so it had to feature a roundel, so he was against a sunset. But I forgot about the CFL team. They may have been hanging around in the back of my mind for inspiration.

So I have to admit - I remembered the existence of the CFL San Antonio Texans, but I had to google them to remember the colour scheme etc. When did I was like holy shit - can you imagine a more mid-90s colour scheme?

The whole CFL US expansion was such a disaster...

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't see OKC being the type of city that can support both an NBA and NHL team. If you look at the markets that pull this off, you are primarily talking about the biggest municipalities in the United States and Canada (the NYC, LA, Chicago, Toronto, Dallas, DC, Philadelphia, Boston, Miami, Bay Area, and that next tier of cities behind that in Denver, Detroit, and Twin Cities). Phoenix has all 4, but we've seen there has been an issue of support but it has the population to do so. The only major cities without both are Houston and Atlanta. After that, you see a ton of cities with teams in 3 of the Big 4 like Cleveland, Pitt, Indianapolis, SLC, Tampa, etc.

As for NCAA Hockey, it would be cool to see some of the SEC teams branch into NCAA Hockey, but I'd be surprised to see it happen, UT absolutely has the money an Athletic Department needs to support it to be successful. Granted, does anyone know if the new Moody arena has a rink or is it Basketball/Concerts only.

 

[Yukon Joe]

As for NCAA Hockey, it would be cool to see some of the SEC teams branch into NCAA Hockey, but I'd be surprised to see it happen, UT absolutely has the money an Athletic Department needs to support it to be successful. Granted, does anyone know if the new Moody arena has a rink or is it Basketball/Concerts only.

So I was reading up on the Moody Centre. I could find no reference to hockey or ice anywhere, so the answer is probably no.

But beyond that:

n 2018, it was announced that Oak View Group and UT agreed to form a public-private partnership, to build a new $375 million arena. The arena will replace the Frank Erwin Center as the home for the Texas Longhorns basketball programs, and will also function as a world-class events center for the city of Austin.[4][5] The new arena is named the Moody Center following the Moody Foundation's grant of $130 million to the university. Oak View Group is funding the construction, and will manage the building in exchange for the right to keep most of the income from non-UT events, such as concerts and shows, for at least the first 35 years after opening.[6] UT, however, owns the land under the arena and will be the owner of the building. Under the terms of the agreement, the university will have exclusive control of the arena for 60 days each year to hold men's and women's basketball games, graduations, and other events.[6] Oak View Group, along with partners Live Nation and C3 Presents, will have the right to hold events on the other days.[6]

(from Wikipedia)

So U of T only controls the arena for 60 days per year. A quick count shoes the men's basketball team plays there 17 times, the women 19 times. Plus make room if any NCAA tournament games might be played there, or any other UT events (like graduations that are mentioned) - there probably aren't enough dates to fit in a hockey team.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

So I was reading up on the Moody Centre. I could find no reference to hockey or ice anywhere, so the answer is probably no.

But beyond that:



(from Wikipedia)

So U of T only controls the arena for 60 days per year. A quick count shoes the men's basketball team plays there 17 times, the women 19 times. Plus make room if any NCAA tournament games might be played there, or any other UT events (like graduations that are mentioned) - there probably aren't enough dates to fit in a hockey team.

You can just look at the bowl shape and know that place can’t host hockey full time.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

When Hicks owned the Stars, and was big on UT, I figured something like that could happen. I thought that the Texas flag or using a long horn logo, perhaps in red, white, blue, would at least show up in the third jersey, but they came up with the Mooterus instead.