Post-Game Talk: Ten. In. A. Row. | Leafs lose to Preds 4-3.

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
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I personally saw a lot of positives from that game last night. Players making a concerted effort to guard the points, better face off formation and defence and Franson was great. In the end this team is not good enough to win in this league on a consistent basis, they win early on in the year when other teams have not hit their stride yet and get away playing a loose game. When they have to be defensively concious they just can't make it happen.

I hate to say this but they really miss a guy like Kullemin who was so good just chipping the puck out of their end and being great on the boards. I would take two Kullemins over a Clarkson any day but that is water under the bridge.

This team is by no means worse off without Dion in the lineup, I believe they should try and resign Franson and try and trade Dion.

Kadri was a mess in the first period, he played much better after but at this stage of his career I expect more. That giveaway at the blue line, on the power play was frickin pee wee material. He needs to get better and at times I see him just coasting too much.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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I personally saw a lot of positives from that game last night. Players making a concerted effort to guard the points, better face off formation and defence and Franson was great. In the end this team is not good enough to win in this league on a consistent basis, they win early on in the year when other teams have not hit their stride yet and get away playing a loose game. When they have to be defensively concious they just can't make it happen.

I hate to say this but they really miss a guy like Kullemin who was so good just chipping the puck out of their end and being great on the boards. I would take two Kullemins over a Clarkson any day but that is water under the bridge.

This team is by no means worse off without Dion in the lineup, I believe they should try and resign Franson and try and trade Dion.

Kadri was a mess in the first period, he played much better after but at this stage of his career I expect more. That giveaway at the blue line, on the power play was frickin pee wee material. He needs to get better and at times I see him just coasting too much.

IF they manage to ship out dion before this TD, then ya, maybe just maybe I consider inking CF but I have to see those numbers and term first and it happens before the TD.

as for the fading year after year after year

I believe it has a lot to do with physical and mental conditioning with too many key players on this roster

they remind me of college frat boys , at the start of the term they are all full of energy ra ra party party , lots of get up and go in them, energized from that long holiday they get


,

but when the season gets old , long in the tooth, it actually starts to feel like a real job, welllll,
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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This might have been one of Leafs better efforts of the 10 straight losses.

The 3 ES goals also something we haven't seen very often.

Leafs best players Santorelli, Winnik and Franson in this game perhaps increased their trade value in this one for those scouting the Leafs.
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
26,828
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Undisclosed research facility
Reading these comments I feel sad to be a leaf fan. A lot of people spewing nonsense and picking who ever they can to blame everything on.

People seem to think every player needs to be a complete 100% all around player AND have elite talents in certain areas.

Do you guys even watch other teams?

Does Kane kill penalties and out muscle the other teams to score? No, he plays in front of a Norris winner and top pairing shut down D and scores using his skill to make himself open. The difference is that Kane is relied on to be THE guy, there are 4 other guys when one has an off night it doesn't matter. A lot less pressure.

Does Dion score 30-40 points while being a rock defensively and never making a mistake while physically dominating everything by himself? No, or he would be the best dman in NHL history. He can play decent defense with really harsh minutes and give you 30+ points as a top pairing dman.

Kadri isn't datsyuk yet? Bust, trade him for the next shiny name so we can do the same when he gets to the same age.

A lot of posts in here are just complete ignorance. Yes we can admit there is a problem, yes we can admit as is these players can't get the job done, however talking to them like they are worthless human beings and like no one would want them on their hockey team because they can't win the cup themselves are making themselves look ignorant.

Give Kessel a #1 C, and give Phaneuf another top pairing D and then lets give them a look. The issue with that is that by the time we get these assets ready to compete and good enough the level of Phaneuf and Kessel at the time might be in decline, and I can understand people using these terms for a trade.

However some people in here personally attacking players and spreading straight up lies.... Classless.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Reading these comments I feel sad to be a leaf fan. A lot of people spewing nonsense and picking who ever they can to blame everything on.

People seem to think every player needs to be a complete 100% all around player AND have elite talents in certain areas.

Do you guys even watch other teams?

Does Kane kill penalties and out muscle the other teams to score? No, he plays in front of a Norris winner and top pairing shut down D and scores using his skill to make himself open. The difference is that Kane is relied on to be THE guy, there are 4 other guys when one has an off night it doesn't matter. A lot less pressure.

Does Dion score 30-40 points while being a rock defensively and never making a mistake while physically dominating everything by himself? No, or he would be the best dman in NHL history. He can play decent defense with really harsh minutes and give you 30+ points as a top pairing dman.

Kadri isn't datsyuk yet? Bust, trade him for the next shiny name so we can do the same when he gets to the same age.

A lot of posts in here are just complete ignorance. Yes we can admit there is a problem, yes we can admit as is these players can't get the job done, however talking to them like they are worthless human beings and like no one would want them on their hockey team because they can't win the cup themselves are making themselves look ignorant.

Give Kessel a #1 C, and give Phaneuf another top pairing D and then lets give them a look. The issue with that is that by the time we get these assets ready to compete and good enough the level of Phaneuf and Kessel at the time might be in decline, and I can understand people using these terms for a trade.

However some people in here personally attacking players and spreading straight up lies.... Classless.

lmao you post that and grip about folks spewing ignorance around here, oh man :shakehead
 

Swayze*

Guest
Give Kessel a #1 C, and give Phaneuf another top pairing D and then lets give them a look. The issue with that is that by the time we get these assets ready to compete and good enough the level of Phaneuf and Kessel at the time might be in decline, and I can understand people using these terms for a trade.

However some people in here personally attacking players and spreading straight up lies.... Classless.

How are we magically going to just get a 1C and 1D?

Did you give one second of thought to that?
 

Caesium

Registered User
Apr 13, 2006
7,525
184
Will a #1 C make Kessel skate? At all? Will it make him start challenging people 1v1 instead of hitting the brakes every single time he enters the zone? Will it make him start driving to the net? Maybe it would make him start digging in corners and engaging physically? Will it make him backcheck?

When I see a little guy do this: https://gfycat.com/PhonyParchedGrison

And then watch Kessel... his level of non-compete just blows my mind. Yeah, that's not a big hit. But he had the heart to still do it. He tried. Kessel doesn't try.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
How are we magically going to just get a 1C and 1D?

Did you give one second of thought to that?

the problem is many here are so ahead of CK in the thought process and understanding of things that he just can't see them, save for their tail lights.
 

Purity*

Registered User
Jan 29, 2010
8,446
1
How are we magically going to just get a 1C and 1D?

Did you give one second of thought to that?

Way to completely miss the point of his post.

Considering we've had about almost 6 years to draft/develop one since we've acquired Kessel, I think it's pretty safe to say that Kessel is the root of all of our team's problems, right :laugh: Truth be told he's never played with a #1D OR another top-liner in his entire tenure here. People always look for the most convenient scapegoat and cling to it.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,755
11,041
the problem is many here are so ahead of CK in the thought process and understanding of things that he just can't see them save, for their tail lights.

At this time we'd be better off having no stars (except the likes of Rielly), have players like Winnik/Santorelli etc. and be a blue collar hard working team while we stockpile picks for the next 5 years.
You draft your core guys and we promote the complimentary pieces in our system into a hard working system.
We use the players we have to replenish the system while we are drafting core position players.
 

TML1

Registered User
Oct 18, 2014
1,723
0
Reading these comments I feel sad to be a leaf fan. A lot of people spewing nonsense and picking who ever they can to blame everything on.

People seem to think every player needs to be a complete 100% all around player AND have elite talents in certain areas.

Do you guys even watch other teams?

Does Kane kill penalties and out muscle the other teams to score? No, he plays in front of a Norris winner and top pairing shut down D and scores using his skill to make himself open. The difference is that Kane is relied on to be THE guy, there are 4 other guys when one has an off night it doesn't matter. A lot less pressure.

Does Dion score 30-40 points while being a rock defensively and never making a mistake while physically dominating everything by himself? No, or he would be the best dman in NHL history. He can play decent defense with really harsh minutes and give you 30+ points as a top pairing dman.

Kadri isn't datsyuk yet? Bust, trade him for the next shiny name so we can do the same when he gets to the same age.

A lot of posts in here are just complete ignorance. Yes we can admit there is a problem, yes we can admit as is these players can't get the job done, however talking to them like they are worthless human beings and like no one would want them on their hockey team because they can't win the cup themselves are making themselves look ignorant.

Give Kessel a #1 C, and give Phaneuf another top pairing D and then lets give them a look. The issue with that is that by the time we get these assets ready to compete and good enough the level of Phaneuf and Kessel at the time might be in decline, and I can understand people using these terms for a trade.

However some people in here personally attacking players and spreading straight up lies.... Classless.

I agree that Kessel needs a #1C but what are you going to do about his lack of fight? Phaneuf is as good as it gets #1 D pairing or not.
 

Purity*

Registered User
Jan 29, 2010
8,446
1
Reading these comments I feel sad to be a leaf fan. A lot of people spewing nonsense and picking who ever they can to blame everything on.

People seem to think every player needs to be a complete 100% all around player AND have elite talents in certain areas.

Do you guys even watch other teams?

Does Kane kill penalties and out muscle the other teams to score? No, he plays in front of a Norris winner and top pairing shut down D and scores using his skill to make himself open. The difference is that Kane is relied on to be THE guy, there are 4 other guys when one has an off night it doesn't matter. A lot less pressure.

Does Dion score 30-40 points while being a rock defensively and never making a mistake while physically dominating everything by himself? No, or he would be the best dman in NHL history. He can play decent defense with really harsh minutes and give you 30+ points as a top pairing dman.

Kadri isn't datsyuk yet? Bust, trade him for the next shiny name so we can do the same when he gets to the same age.

A lot of posts in here are just complete ignorance. Yes we can admit there is a problem, yes we can admit as is these players can't get the job done, however talking to them like they are worthless human beings and like no one would want them on their hockey team because they can't win the cup themselves are making themselves look ignorant.

Give Kessel a #1 C, and give Phaneuf another top pairing D and then lets give them a look. The issue with that is that by the time we get these assets ready to compete and good enough the level of Phaneuf and Kessel at the time might be in decline, and I can understand people using these terms for a trade.

However some people in here personally attacking players and spreading straight up lies.... Classless.

Props to you for posting some very reasonable things in this hectic time for the Maple Leafs.
 

mikebel111*

Guest
I personally saw a lot of positives from that game last night. Players making a concerted effort to guard the points, better face off formation and defence and Franson was great. In the end this team is not good enough to win in this league on a consistent basis, they win early on in the year when other teams have not hit their stride yet and get away playing a loose game. When they have to be defensively concious they just can't make it happen.

I hate to say this but they really miss a guy like Kullemin who was so good just chipping the puck out of their end and being great on the boards. I would take two Kullemins over a Clarkson any day but that is water under the bridge.

This team is by no means worse off without Dion in the lineup, I believe they should try and resign Franson and try and trade Dion.

Kadri was a mess in the first period, he played much better after but at this stage of his career I expect more. That giveaway at the blue line, on the power play was frickin pee wee material. He needs to get better and at times I see him just coasting too much.


he even admitted it was a bad play. well guess what he got it back. but hey only focus on that bad play right?
also coasting is Bozak on a lot of nights
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,984
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Leafs Home Board
Will a #1 C make Kessel skate? At all? Will it make him start challenging people 1v1 instead of hitting the brakes every single time he enters the zone? Will it make him start driving to the net? Maybe it would make him start digging in corners and engaging physically? Will it make him backcheck?

When I see a little guy do this: https://gfycat.com/PhonyParchedGrison

And then watch Kessel... his level of non-compete just blows my mind. Yeah, that's not a big hit. But he had the heart to still do it. He tried. Kessel doesn't try.

3-17-1 – Leafs record in the past 21 games.

3 – Goals for Phil Kessel during those 21 games only 1 at ES.
 

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
5,858
540
Canada
Reading these comments I feel sad to be a leaf fan. A lot of people spewing nonsense and picking who ever they can to blame everything on.

People seem to think every player needs to be a complete 100% all around player AND have elite talents in certain areas.

Do you guys even watch other teams?

Does Kane kill penalties and out muscle the other teams to score? No, he plays in front of a Norris winner and top pairing shut down D and scores using his skill to make himself open. The difference is that Kane is relied on to be THE guy, there are 4 other guys when one has an off night it doesn't matter. A lot less pressure.

Does Dion score 30-40 points while being a rock defensively and never making a mistake while physically dominating everything by himself? No, or he would be the best dman in NHL history. He can play decent defense with really harsh minutes and give you 30+ points as a top pairing dman.

Kadri isn't datsyuk yet? Bust, trade him for the next shiny name so we can do the same when he gets to the same age.

A lot of posts in here are just complete ignorance. Yes we can admit there is a problem, yes we can admit as is these players can't get the job done, however talking to them like they are worthless human beings and like no one would want them on their hockey team because they can't win the cup themselves are making themselves look ignorant.

Give Kessel a #1 C, and give Phaneuf another top pairing D and then lets give them a look. The issue with that is that by the time we get these assets ready to compete and good enough the level of Phaneuf and Kessel at the time might be in decline, and I can understand people using these terms for a trade.

However some people in here personally attacking players and spreading straight up lies.... Classless.

I think you need to chill champ and I could really care less if your Nazem's BFF. Being a pro means dealing with criticism and if you can't handle the fire than get the hell out of the kitchen. Your boy played a decent game but his giveaway was down right pee wee level. No way to sugar coat it, no way to give him a flyer. It's time to put up and shut up when it comes to him. All fans have waited patiently and given him plenty of rope. He's paid to be a pro-time to start acting like that and part of that is telling your BFF to keep your mouth shut.

You reference Kane, you seem to fail to realize that he was sat last night because he has stunk the bed since he came back and there is a reason his name has been mentioned in trade rumors for the last year and a bit.

You seem to fail to realize that all players need to make sacrifices for the 'team', this group of 'individuals' has not made those sacrifices for years and that is why they will be parted out soon.

You mentioned Datsyk and how players should not be compared to him. Right! Because the guy is a pro, does whatever is needed for the 'team' and constantly works on his game. A lot like players that we used to have here.

Sorry to go off on you but BFF's like you are the centre of the problem. 'It's ok buddy, fans don't know what the hell they are talking about, you're playing fine.' Look in the mirror is all I can say to all Leafs today and ask, have you played to best of your capabilities in the last ten games? Have you done everything and sacrificed everything for the team? Are you so sore from the night before that it is hard to get your *** out of bed? Might be one or two guys on this team that can say yes, to all the rest, you should be ashamed calling yourself a pro.
 

Swayze*

Guest
Way to completely miss the point of his post.

Considering we've had about almost 6 years to draft/develop one since we've acquired Kessel, I think it's pretty safe to say that Kessel is the root of all of our team's problems, right :laugh: Truth be told he's never played with a #1D OR another top-liner in his entire tenure here. People always look for the most convenient scapegoat and cling to it.
If you don't get it by now I'm not explaining
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,755
11,041
3-17-1 – Leafs record in the past 21 games.

3 – Goals for Phil Kessel during those 21 games only 1 at ES.

Your best players need to be your best players even on a bad team.
Who has been our best player?
 

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
5,858
540
Canada
he even admitted it was a bad play. well guess what he got it back. but hey only focus on that bad play right?
also coasting is Bozak on a lot of nights

Hey. He put his team down early on a play he was berated on early on in his career. It was a pee wee play. No excuses, no appologies, either dump it in or get layed out and make a play. Not some ***** pass at the blue line. I am sick and tired off excuses in TO.

Bozak has to go, he has been one of the worst when it comes to effort since Christmas.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
55,377
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Hey. He put his team down early on a play he was berated on early on in his career. It was a pee wee play. No excuses, no appologies, either dump it in or get layed out and make a play. Not some ***** pass at the blue line. I am sick and tired off excuses in TO.

Bozak has to go, he has been one of the worst when it comes to effort since Christmas.

It's a play we've seen the Leafs make on the PP very often this year on the break in.. Kadri, Kessel, JVR all do it as apart of their zone entry. It's the first time I can remember all season that pass not working and resulting in that bad of a giveaway, it's a skill pass that usually gets made .. Kadri this time just didn't execute
 
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Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
26,828
16,944
Undisclosed research facility
lmao you post that and grip about folks spewing ignorance around here, oh man :shakehead

I don't get this post? How am I showing ignorance for saying Kessel hasn't played with another elite forward on the team his entire time, and Phaneuf hasn't had a top pairing quality defensemen on the roster other than himself?

The point I am making is when the team has more than one option (two elite forwards, two dman they can rely on) suddenly the pressure is halfed, and it gives these players a lot more flexibility.

We seen how Rielly played when he got benched for mistakes under Carlyle and now that he has free run he looks better? Well Kessel and Phaneuf are under the microscope for everything, having some pressure off and another high end talent to work with makes a huge difference.

I'm not willing to write off these two players who have been asked to do everything themselves.

How are we magically going to just get a 1C and 1D?


Did you give one second of thought to that?

I don't know, and I addressed that later in my post by saying I could understand the argument of trading them due to the fact they would be in decline by the time those pieces were ready.

However I will say we have Nylander in the system, and looks like we have a legit chance at McDavid, Eichel, Hanifin, or Strome which would immediately solve one of those holes.

the problem is many here are so ahead of CK in the thought process and understanding of things that he just can't see them, save for their tail lights.

Right, if you want to stick on your high horse and cover your ears and believe what you want, then go ahead. You've already been doing that with our players calling them the issue, then moving on to the next guy/*****ing our guys were traded when they play well for another team.

Way to completely miss the point of his post.

Considering we've had about almost 6 years to draft/develop one since we've acquired Kessel, I think it's pretty safe to say that Kessel is the root of all of our team's problems, right :laugh: Truth be told he's never played with a #1D OR another top-liner in his entire tenure here. People always look for the most convenient scapegoat and cling to it.

Yup. I am not saying these guys are exempt from critism, however people are literally acting like Kessel and Phaneuf don't have NHL talent, when in reality they are two very talented players who have never had any help, and we're expected to be Doughty/Crosby for us.

Giving Kessel either an elite linemate, or an elite team mate who draws some of the defensive pressure off would do wonders for him, never mind the fact that if he is cold, the other player might be hot and we can get continues scoring.

Give Phaneuf the same treatment and suddenly he either gets to play much easier minutes or gets talented help so he can do his job better.

Succesful teams have 4 or 5 of these types of players. I'm saying the issue may not be Kessel @ 8m and Phaneuf @ 7, but having Clarkson Lupul, Gardiner, and JVR as their support. They need players in their range of talent.

I agree that Kessel needs a #1C but what are you going to do about his lack of fight? Phaneuf is as good as it gets #1 D pairing or not.

Kessel has lots of fight, we've seen it in him all the time, he loves to win. However the entire team has no morale or fight right now, so it's unfair to single him out. Again, this is something he can be criticized for, just not only him.

Props to you for posting some very reasonable things in this hectic time for the Maple Leafs.

If not sarcasm, thanks! I feel that fans have an unrealistic view of our players and blaming two players for 10 years of failure isn't logical.

I also think Coaching is still an issue, as we lost our entire offensive drive under Horachek, and the same thing happened to Florida under him as coach.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,653
8,299
T.O.
The boys had me worried a bit in the 3rd period. Glad they pulled through, and Buffalo won as well.
 

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