Team Toughness

[RAFI BOMB]

What are your thoughts on the team toughness this season? This isn't about fighting it just seems like this team isn't very hard to play against. We are 18th in the league in hits and we don't seem to have much of a punishing forecheck. Our defense seem a bit soft around our own net as they don't punish players for hanging around the crease or driving hard to the net. For a team that is lacking in talent and depth we don't play a particularly hard or in your face brand of hockey. The biggest concern was the 9-2 loss of Buffalo where there didn't even seem to be much anger or fire in the players.

It is understandable that we will be bad this season but shouldn't we be playing a tougher brand of hockey in order to win?

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[CorrectOpinion]

I feel like historically we have not had a ton of muscle ever.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I feel like historically we have not had a ton of muscle ever.

Do you mean in terms of fighters? We had Neil, Chara and McGrattan for a while then we had Neil, Carkner, Smith, Ruutu and Lessard/Konopka.

Or do you mean in terms of physical play?

 

[Boud]

That year in the playoffs against Montreal we had a lot of bigger and tougher guys...

Gryba
Cowen
Neil
Smith
Kassian
Methot

 

[Ice-Tray]

We are not a tough team at all. BT will help with that but if we want to be tougher we need to add players that enjoy laying hits and being aggressive, that enjoy battling for pucks and feel inclined to step in when other players take liberties. On the roster right now we don’t have a single player that seems offended by other teams’ antics.

The problem is that they need to be fast enough and skilled enough as well. It’s a difficult combination to find.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

That year in the playoffs against Montreal we had a lot of bigger and tougher guys...

Gryba
Cowen
Neil
Smith
Kassian
Methot

 

[RAFI BOMB]

We are not a tough team at all. BT will help with that but if we want to be tougher we need to add players that enjoy laying hits and being aggressive, that enjoy battling for pucks and feel inclined to step in when other players take liberties. On the roster right now we don’t have a single player that seems offended by other teams’ antics.

The problem is that they need to be fast enough and skilled enough as well. It’s a difficult combination to find.

Getting more players that play like Tkachuk would be great. We need that compete level and like you said players that enjoy and thrive off battling for loose pucks and positions and hit hard. We really lack meanness and nastiness in our lineup.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We're definitely lacking in compete level. Too many times the team isn't ready to play an afternoon game, or they had "too much" rest, or it's a back-to-back...lots of excuses for poor efforts.

We need some swagger on the team. And while Brady is great, it has to be a team-wide thing, not just 2-3 guys. Human nature shows that a couple guys who generally are competitive, won't play hard when on their 2nd or 3rd contracts if they're the only ones battling out there (Smith, Pageau are great examples)...no one wants to feel like they're the only ones stuck doing the 'dirty' jobs, and will eventually start to slack.

 

[Sensung]

The problem with this team is not enough talent.

The owner's unwillingness to spend is the reason for the lack of talent. The fact that our GM is in over his head and wastes money on the wrong contracts just makes it worse.

 

[Tuna99]

Lajoie, Chabot, White all get pushed around in games but they'll get stronger and they'll be better. Like how Turris was when he first got to Ottawa, he'd get knocked over a lot but he built up his strenght.

My concern is more speed, some of our big forwards like Stone and Ryan are slow and we need speed in our top 6. Slow players just can't pressure Pucks and without contant puck pressure all over the ice you get Dominated, and Ottawa is getting dominated

 

[BatherSeason]

Physical toughness has nothing to do with it. Boucher coaches like its the late 90s, early 2000s. You can't trap as soon as you get a lead in this league anymore. Attack, attack, attack.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Boucher mentioned this as an issue last game. He said that Vegas plays a hard physical style with and aggressive pace and we weren't ready to match it. He said Vegas excels at 1 on 1 and that is where the senators are weakest. We need more tkachuk style players

 

[starling]

Funny how our best game of the season (against NJD) happened to also be the softest one. Outhit 14-30 or something. Sens haven't had under 15 hits in a game in a looong time.
What did Boucher say about that one?

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Funny how our best game of the season (against NJD) happened to also be the softest one. Outhit 14-30 or something. Sens haven't had under 15 hits in a game in a looong time.
What did Boucher say about that one?

That doesn't create a strong argument against toughness but instead a strong argument for possession. A team can't make any hits while it has the puck.

If anything that actually strengthens the argument for the modern version of toughness. Finishing hits, winning one on one luck battles, winning battles along the boards and winning positional battles around the net are all key elements of gaining puck possession. Even initimdarion can play a role by leading to turnovers .

Toughness is a big key to success it is just that fighting isn't a major component of toughness in the nhl these days. Being soft is always a bad strategy long term. Perimeter play doesn't consistently lead to success. There isn't much gained from losing puck battles and losing positional battles along the boards and around the net.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We need to be harder in the offensive zone and in the defensive zone... The passiveness in the DZone drives me nuts.. They continually lose races to 50/50 pucks.. and very few throw a check to separate the man from the puck. They play way too soft.

 

[aragorn]

Do you mean in terms of fighters? We had Neil, Chara and McGrattan for a while then we had Neil, Carkner, Smith, Ruutu and Lessard/Konopka.

Or do you mean in terms of physical play?

Unfortunately when Ottawa had Neil, Chara & McGratton they also had JM as the coach who most if the time wanted them to ignore that stuff if you will recall. PM was the one coach who didn't mind the rough stuff & had a pretty good team because he was not afraid to use it.

 

[Bileur]

Unfortunately when Ottawa had Neil, Chara & McGratton they also had JM as the coach who most if the time wanted them to ignore that stuff if you will recall. PM was the one coach who didn't mind the rough stuff & had a pretty good team because he was not afraid to use it.

By the time McGrattan was NHL ready Bryan Murray was coach.

 

[Agent Zub]

Tough teams are the ones who play with a hard fast relentless forecheck.

Slow physical players who can't make plays aren't tough to play.

 

[aragorn]

By the time McGrattan was NHL ready Bryan Murray was coach.

because JM would not bring him up. As soon as BM took over he brought him up & it was McGratton, who dropped Domi in their fight that changed everything for Ottawa that yr that IMO was the catalyst that helped to send the Sens to the SC finals. Once that team lost their fear with the addition of McGratton they played with much more swagger, toughness & fearless IMO.

Tough teams are the ones who play with a hard fast relentless forecheck.

Slow physical players who can't make plays aren't tough to play.

It was a trio of slow physical 4th line players last night that helped the LV Knights dominate the Sens.

 

[Agent Zub]

because JM would not bring him up. As soon as BM took over he brought him up & it was McGratton, who dropped Domi in their fight that changed everything for Ottawa that yr that IMO was the catalyst that helped to send the Sens to the SC finals. Once that team lost their fear with the addition of McGratton they played with much more swagger, toughness & fearless IMO.



It was a trio of slow physical 4th line players last night that helped the LV Knights dominate the Sens.

They got skill bruh they aren't boroweickis

 

[aragorn]

They got skill bruh they aren't boroweickis

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Reeves has skill because a lot of people have written in the past that he does not whenever I have suggested Ottawa to trade for him.

 

[Agent Zub]

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Reeves has skill because a lot of people have written in the past that he does not whenever I have suggested Ottawa to trade for him.

Yea he has skill. Might not put up big numbers but he consistently makes plays towards the net and cycles the puck well.

 

[starling]

Quenneville won 3 Stanley Cups with the softest team in the league.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Quenneville won 3 Stanley Cups with the softest team in the league.

yah they just threw a bunch of pillows out there and walked away with the cup
They were not soft.

 

[Bileur]

because JM would not bring him up. As soon as BM took over he brought him up & it was McGratton, who dropped Domi in their fight that changed everything for Ottawa that yr that IMO was the catalyst that helped to send the Sens to the SC finals. Once that team lost their fear with the addition of McGratton they played with much more swagger, toughness & fearless IMO.

I agree on the McGrattan and Domi fight, it remains one of my favourite moments as a sens fan. I was a huge fan of his.

That said I think you’re misremembering McGrattan’s career arc. We signed him out of Junior in 2002. He was willing but wasn’t a great fighter at that time. Binghamton’s main enforcer was still Bonvie. In his first and second years in the AHL McGrattan learned from him and took over that role.

Check out the McGrattan/Bonvie part of this page: coach – Jeff Ulmer HOCKEY

McGrattan talked about Bonvie here too: McGrattan teaching Kanzig the ropes of what it takes to be an NHL enforcer

In addition to those, remember that in 03-04 the sens were stacked at RW with Alfredsson, Hossa, Havlat and Neil.

In terms of toughness that had Neil, Chara, and Hnidy and added Todd Simpson and Rob Ray near the end of the year. There just wasn’t logical space for McGrattan if he wasn’t the baddest dude around.

The following year was the lockout where McGrattan put up an insane 39 fights and 551 pims and was generally a terror in the AHL.

He made the team the season after the lockout under Murray.

All that to say I don’t think he was ready to take someone’s spot in the NHL until at least the lockout year.