Team Overview - Present and Future

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

If I'm Bryan Murray now, I'm viewing my chances to succeed this year and to succeed in the future. Therefore, here is a breakdown of what we have vs what we need and how these spots could be filled internally vs outside help while keeping to consideration team identity and age.

KEEP IN MIND THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES ARE DIVIDED TO MEET CONTENDING STATUS.

Star players:
None

Top liners:
Ryan 26
Turris

Top 6ers:
MacArthur 28
Spezza 30

Borderline top 6ers:
Zibanejad 20

Excellent bottom 6ers:
Smith
Conacher
Condra

Fourth liners:
Greening
Condra
Kassian(lol jk)

Top Prospects: Lazar, Pageau Prince, Hoffman, Puempel, DaCosta

Overview: What I see here is lack of star power. With that being said, what hurts even more is lack of top-end forward talent. I was very hesitant to actually put Turris on the top line category because he hasn't established himself throughout his career as having that ability but he is trending upwards every season and no reason to believe he will decline. Will he be a top liner on a contending team? That is very difficult to say, right now he isn't capable but could be.

I did not add MacArthur because I need more consistent effort through more than just 1 season. Ryan is there by default as a forward who can score 30 with 60-70 points and 150 hits which is top line caliber production.

Top 6 include MacArthur who is excellent at that spot. Then Spezza. He has fallen to number 2 C behind Turris but could regain top line form. He hasn't yet and needs to get his game back to top line, let alone star, if this team wants to make noise anywhere.

Borderline this team includes Zibanejad who could be an excellent top 6er or a first liner which could boost this team's offensive support big time. Only 20 years old and on pace for near 20 goals and 35 points 150+ hits in disappointing season shows high potential.

Good mix of bottom 6ers+ 4th liners. Probably need 1 more excellent 3rd liner for that bottom 6 group to be lethal.

We only have 1 real prospect coming up who can be a stud who is Lazar. Puempel/Hoffman/Prince could be top 6 wingers but that remains to be seen.


Star Defenders:
Karlsson

top pairing:

top 4:
Methot
Ceci

Borderline top 4:
Cowen

Bottom 6:
Gryba
Wiercioch
Phillips

Prospects: Claesson, Vikstrand, Boro

Big disparity in defense. We have Karlsson who's star defender then huge gap until we have Methot and Ceci who are top 4 defenders. No top pairing or number 2-3 defenders in between.

The excellent news though is Cowen/Ceci could both be top pairing defenders in near future. Also, this team has great depth within the system, Claesson, Vikstrand, Boro could all get in games this year or next. Future looks good on D.

Overall summary:

This team won't know it's true ability until a couple more years when Karlsson is more experienced leading this team in all 3 zones, Cowen/Ceci have 200 games under their belts, the likes of Claesson/Vikstrand/Boro/Gryba have more experience.

On forward, Turris could evolve to legit number 1 center, Ryan could be more consistent scorer at the peak of his prime. Zibanejad and Lazar could be playing prominent roles in our top 6/9.

Robin Lehner should be the go-to-guy in net.

Questions:

Spezza will be 32, will he still be able to lead this team at that age with his history injuries? Will he even be a number 1 C in a couple years?

Should we remove our veterans and stack up on prospects/picks and get a high pick next year where we could add 2 huge pieces to our core moving forward?

Should we package a couple big name prospects or Zibanejad for immediate help to try and get a star forward or top-liner that'll help us win when the core is clicking.

My Opinion:

Trade Spezza, Anderson, Phillips, Greening Acquire a top 5 pick next year, add players/prospects.

2 years from now:


Turris 26 top line
Ryan 28 top line
MacArthur 30 top 6
McDavid/Eichel/Barzal 19 top 6/
Zibanejad 22 top 6/9
Lazar 21 top 6/9
Prospects we got for Spezza/Anderson/Phillips
Prince 23
Pageau 22
Stone 23
Smith 27
Condra 29



Defense:

Karlsson 25 star
Cowen 24 top pairing
Methot 30 top 4
Ceci 22 top pairing
Gryba 27 bottom 6
Claesson 23 bottom 6
Boro 26 bottom 6

Lehner:
24 star goalie

DO NOT FORGET, we would have plethora of money. We could add in 2-3 huge pieces on defense or offense if 1 or 2 players regress instead of improve or fail to meet expectations.

Excellent mix of young forwards and veteran presence but not too old so that the core can grow together for 5-7 years across the board as lethal contender.

Now... what do you wanna see done in the future?

Click to read more...

 

[FireMelnyk]

We're a victim of our own success. How good would we look with Landeskog and MacKinnon rather than pushing for wins during the rebuild.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We're a victim of our own success. How good would we look with Landeskog and MacKinnon rather than pushing for wins during the rebuild.

We got Zibanejad instead of Landeskog so that might not be a huge loss at the end. MacKinnon one could bite but last year the progression of Zibanejad, Turris, the defense and Lehner could be more beneficial.

Your post is exactly why I made this thread.

We should stop trying to force short-term victories that would lead us no where and try to stack up on a brilliant upcoming core so we can make huge push in the future for long period of time as a contender.

 

[source]

"top pairing" eh

 

[FireMelnyk]

I think having Alfie around forced the Sens to push for as many wins as possible. We should have dumped him to a contender with Fisher and Kelly for a larger return.

We really don't have enough high skill assets to push for a cup and to acquire them through trade will be impossible as it would gut was assets we do have. The UFA forward market looks pretty void of elite talent, plus Melnyk refuses to overpay which you need to for top talent, so I don't see that as a means to acquire the right pieces either.

Basically I think we need another 2-3 years of ACTUAL rebuilding before we can start thinking about a push for a Cup.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

"top pairing" eh

Are you taking about Ceci and Cowen? Cowen has enormous potential he is playing top 4 minutes now and still looks ridiculously raw. He hasn't played enough in comparison to other defenders who became more established. I believe Cowen could be a number 1 defender but I took more conservative approach and said top pairing basically meaning a n excellent complementary to Karlsson like a Seabrook.

Ceci is 20 and playing very well and on most nights our best defender. I don't see why he can not evolve into a number 2 defender with 2 more years under his belt.

 

[Back in Black]

I think having Alfie around forced the Sens to push for as many wins as possible. We should have dumped him to a contender with Fisher and Kelly for a larger return.

Unfortunately, Murray got nothing in return for Fisher, Kelly & Alfie.

How much more damage can he do? We are a middle of the pack team, ain't gonna get much better with another Murray rebuild

 

[FireMelnyk]

Unfortunately, Murray got nothing in return for Fisher, Kelly & Alfie.

How much more damage can he do?

What are you talking about. Murray got a good price for both Fisher and Kelly. He just got nothing for Alfie because Melnyk didn't want to see him moved.

Honestly I'm not sure we would have received as large a TV package from Bell as we had without having some success over the last few years. I'm sure that played some part in it as well.

 

[Benjamin]

Move on from the old core.

No need to wait and hope for Spezza. Even if he regains form, we're not winning or going anywhere with him.

Phillips is done. Some moron GM should overpay for him at the deadline. Assuming Phillips wants to be traded. Team is better without him.

Neil can still be a good 4th liner. I'm completely OK with keeping him but I'd move him just for the change.

Michalek is done as well. He's got the heart and effort but thats basically it.

Be patient. The team isn't close to its peak or contending. Roll with the young players(we're a better team doing this anyways), let them keep getting experience.

We dont need another Ryan type trade yet. We lack NHL depth if anything. A Ryan type trade wont help that.

Remove the passengers(Above players + Greening, Gryba, Kassian) for next training camp, let some Bingo players get a real chance. Get some real talent in the lineup.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Fisher became Noesen. Basically a part in package to land us Ryan.

Kelly became Prince. A potential top 6 winger.

Very good prices for a rebuilding team.

I agree with OttawaGM that Ottawa tried to push for cup because of Alfie. Now that he is not here and the team is stuck trying to run in mud, we should complete what we've been trying to do.

 

[Back in Black]

And where do Noesen & Prince fit in the team now? Noesen is traded, and Prince is next.

It's a revolving door with Murray, not a rebuild!

 

[FireMelnyk]

When was the last time a Bingo player actually had success on the team? Outside of Ceci, who isn't even providing any offense which is his game, I can't think of one.

Pageau... flash in the pan for a couple playoff games then bust.
Hoffman... nothing of note.
Stone... still has 0 acceleration and barely any offense.
Zibanejad... 3rd line production with 0 clutch scoring.
DaCosta... how many chances is he going to get.

I haven't seen any elite skill from any of the Bingo players.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Move on from the old core.

No need to wait and hope for Spezza. Even if he regains form, we're not winning or going anywhere with him.

Phillips is done. Some moron GM should overpay for him at the deadline. Assuming Phillips wants to be traded. Team is better without him.

Neil can still be a good 4th liner. I'm completely OK with keeping him but I'd move him just for the change.

Michalek is done as well. He's got the heart and effort but thats basically it.

Be patient. The team isn't close to its peak or contending. Roll with the young players(we're a better team doing this anyways), let them keep getting experience.

We dont need another Ryan type trade yet. We lack NHL depth if anything. A Ryan type trade wont help that.

Remove the passengers(Above players + Greening, Gryba, Kassian) for next training camp, let some Bingo players get a real chance. Get some real talent in the lineup.

This+ top 5 pick in 2015 = back in playoffs 2 years from now.

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Conacher-Zibanejad-Stone
Prince-Pageau-Lazar
Condra-Smith-Neil

Cowen-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Claesson-Wiercioch/Gryba/Boro

Lehner
Halak/Gustavsson (split jobs between Lehner and the back-up 50/50.

That team next year may not be good but it will get us a high pick while our prospects continue to gain experience.

 

[Baby Ryan]

Nice job.

One thing I'd like to add in reference to Star forwards, I said it in the Spezza thread but it has much more relevance here.

Look at Boston and another team like St.Louis Blues, top power houses of the league.
Boston winning the cup a few years back and making great pushes in the playoffs and reached the finals again last season.

Both of those teams have one thing in common, they don't exactly have your Malkin or Corey Perry Star forwards.

They both have guys who are solid top liners and top 6ers, example Lucic, Backes, Bergeron, Krejci, Berglund.

It just goes to show you don't necessarily need that Star forward power to be a cup contender. Although it is nice, these two teams have made it fact that you can be a powerhouse for years with a balanced, two-way team and of course great goaltending (Rask is awesome).


My opinion, is to move on from the old core. It would probably hurt, but it is the best way moving forward. Veterans who don't play like veterans hold back the rookies.

 

[Benjamin]

Oh and fire Dave Cameron

 

[Baby Ryan]

Move on from the old core.

No need to wait and hope for Spezza. Even if he regains form, we're not winning or going anywhere with him.

Phillips is done. Some moron GM should overpay for him at the deadline. Assuming Phillips wants to be traded. Team is better without him.

Neil can still be a good 4th liner. I'm completely OK with keeping him but I'd move him just for the change.

Michalek is done as well. He's got the heart and effort but thats basically it.

Be patient. The team isn't close to its peak or contending. Roll with the young players(we're a better team doing this anyways), let them keep getting experience.

We dont need another Ryan type trade yet. We lack NHL depth if anything. A Ryan type trade wont help that.

Remove the passengers(Above players + Greening, Gryba, Kassian) for next training camp, let some Bingo players get a real chance. Get some real talent in the lineup.

Completely agree, but if Michalek somehow magically wants to stay for a really reduced payroll and be third liner, I'd be fine with that .

I like what Tampa is doing down there, giving the rookies a chance to play and it's working out pretty good for them.
Hoffman, Petersson, Puempel, Prince, the list goes on.

The one thing, I want more than anything right now is for Phillips to be moved/not signed/reduced to 7th defenceman.

 

[DrEasy]

Mac - Turris - Ryan <- MoToR on!
? - ? - ? <- try to improve on Spezza and Michalek if possible
Conacher - Ziba - ? <- good for a 3rd line
Greening - Smith - Condra <- a very good 4th line
Hoffman - Da Costa - Stone <- "top 6 or bust" line or trade bait.
Neil <- play him vs Leafs and other stupid teams

Methot - Karlsson
? - Ceci <- ideally need a solid veteran here
Cowen - Gryba
Boro <- play him vs Leafs and other stupid teams

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

When was the last time a Bingo player actually had success on the team? Outside of Ceci, who isn't even providing any offense which is his game, I can't think of one.

Pageau... flash in the pan for a couple playoff games then bust.
Hoffman... nothing of note.
Stone... still has 0 acceleration and barely any offense.
Zibanejad... 3rd line production with 0 clutch scoring.
DaCosta... how many chances is he going to get.

I haven't seen any elite skill from any of the Bingo players.

I disagree. Pageau has excellent upside. Keep him. Hoffman could be late bloomer. Stone has shown great flashes in NHL. Zibanejad is anything but not clutch. DaCosta isn't getting fair shake. He has impressed when given time.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If I'm Bryan Murray now, I'm viewing my chances to succeed this year and to succeed in the future. Therefore, here is a breakdown of what we have vs what we need and how these spots could be filled internally vs outside help while keeping to consideration team identity and age.

KEEP IN MIND THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES ARE DIVIDED TO MEET CONTENDING STATUS.

Star players:
None

Top liners:
Ryan 26
Turris

Top 6ers:
MacArthur 28
Spezza 30

Borderline top 6ers:
Zibanejad 20

Excellent bottom 6ers:
Smith
Conacher
Condra

Fourth liners:
Greening
Condra
Kassian(lol jk)

Top Prospects: Lazar, Pageau Prince, Hoffman, Puempel, DaCosta

Overview: What I see here is lack of star power. With that being said, what hurts even more is lack of top-end forward talent. I was very hesitant to actually put Turris on the top line category because he hasn't established himself throughout his career as having that ability but he is trending upwards every season and no reason to believe he will decline. Will he be a top liner on a contending team? That is very difficult to say, right now he isn't capable but could be.

I did not add MacArthur because I need more consistent effort through more than just 1 season. Ryan is there by default as a forward who can score 30 with 60-70 points and 150 hits which is top line caliber production.

Top 6 include MacArthur who is excellent at that spot. Then Spezza. He has fallen to number 2 C behind Turris but could regain top line form. He hasn't yet and needs to get his game back to top line, let alone star, if this team wants to make noise anywhere.

Borderline this team includes Zibanejad who could be an excellent top 6er or a first liner which could boost this team's offensive support big time. Only 20 years old and on pace for near 20 goals and 35 points 150+ hits in disappointing season shows high potential.

Good mix of bottom 6ers+ 4th liners. Probably need 1 more excellent 3rd liner for that bottom 6 group to be lethal.

We only have 1 real prospect coming up who can be a stud who is Lazar. Puempel/Hoffman/Prince could be top 6 wingers but that remains to be seen.


Star Defenders:
Karlsson

top pairing:

top 4:
Methot
Ceci

Borderline top 4:
Cowen

Bottom 6:
Gryba
Wiercioch
Phillips

Prospects: Claesson, Vikstrand, Boro

Big disparity in defense. We have Karlsson who's star defender then huge gap until we have Methot and Ceci who are top 4 defenders. No top pairing or number 2-3 defenders in between.

The excellent news though is Cowen/Ceci could both be top pairing defenders in near future. Also, this team has great depth within the system, Claesson, Vikstrand, Boro could all get in games this year or next. Future looks good on D.

Overall summary:

This team won't know it's true ability until a couple more years when Karlsson is more experienced leading this team in all 3 zones, Cowen/Ceci have 200 games under their belts, the likes of Claesson/Vikstrand/Boro/Gryba have more experience.

On forward, Turris could evolve to legit number 1 center, Ryan could be more consistent scorer at the peak of his prime. Zibanejad and Lazar could be playing prominent roles in our top 6/9.

Robin Lehner should be the go-to-guy in net.

Questions:

Spezza will be 32, will he still be able to lead this team at that age with his history injuries? Will he even be a number 1 C in a couple years?

Should we remove our veterans and stack up on prospects/picks and get a high pick next year where we could add 2 huge pieces to our core moving forward?

Should we package a couple big name prospects or Zibanejad for immediate help to try and get a star forward or top-liner that'll help us win when the core is clicking.

My Opinion:

Trade Spezza, Anderson, Phillips, Greening Acquire a top 5 pick next year, add players/prospects.

2 years from now:


Turris 26 top line
Ryan 28 top line
MacArthur 30 top 6
McDavid/Eichel/Barzal 19 top 6/
Zibanejad 22 top 6/9
Lazar 21 top 6/9
Prospects we got for Spezza/Anderson/Phillips
Prince 23
Pageau 22
Stone 23
Smith 27
Condra 29



Defense:

Karlsson 25 star
Cowen 24 top pairing
Methot 30 top 4
Ceci 22 top pairing
Gryba 27 bottom 6
Claesson 23 bottom 6
Boro 26 bottom 6

Lehner:
24 star goalie

DO NOT FORGET, we would have plethora of money. We could add in 2-3 huge pieces on defense or offense if 1 or 2 players regress instead of improve or fail to meet expectations.

Excellent mix of young forwards and veteran presence but not too old so that the core can grow together for 5-7 years across the board as lethal contender.

Now... what do you wanna see done in the future?

well great, but a huge part in this is the 2015 first round pick. Guarentee we don't get that no matter what we give up

 

[FireMelnyk]

Mac - Turris - Ryan <- MoToR on!
? - ? - ? <- try to improve on Spezza and Michalek if possible
Conacher - Ziba - ? <- good for a 3rd line
Greening - Smith - Condra <- a very good 4th line
Hoffman - Da Costa - Stone <- "top 6 or bust" line or trade bait.
Neil <- play him vs Leafs and other stupid teams

Methot - Karlsson
? - Ceci
Cowen - Gryba
Boro <- play him vs Leafs and other stupid teams

Half of that team still has no place on a Cup contender. Cowen has had so long and still makes that same mistakes game after game, Gryba should be a 7-8th on a Cup team at best. Conacher, Condra, Greening, Smith provide 0 scoring threat so at least 2 of the 4 shouldn't be on a Cup team.

Mac and Ryan may or may not re-sign here so can't count on them either.

Really I see 4 pieces of a Cup team 3-4 years down the road.

Turris
Karlsson
Ceci
Lehner

The rest still need to show something (or be signed) to be considered long term pieces.

 

[Baby Ryan]

When was the last time a Bingo player actually had success on the team? Outside of Ceci, who isn't even providing any offense which is his game, I can't think of one.

Pageau... flash in the pan for a couple playoff games then bust.
Hoffman... nothing of note.
Stone... still has 0 acceleration and barely any offense.
Zibanejad... 3rd line production with 0 clutch scoring.
DaCosta... how many chances is he going to get.

I haven't seen any elite skill from any of the Bingo players.

Stone displayed some really nice Hockey I.Q when he played with Spezza. Got into a bunch of scoring areas and got his opportunities. He just needs to learn how to finish it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This+ top 5 pick in 2015 = back in playoffs 2 years from now.

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Conacher-Zibanejad-Stone
Prince-Pageau-Lazar
Condra-Smith-Neil

Cowen-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Claesson-Wiercioch/Gryba/Boro

Lehner
Halak/Gustavsson (split jobs between Lehner and the back-up 50/50.

That team next year may not be good but it will get us a high pick while our prospects continue to gain experience.

I think conacher zibanejad lazar will more than likely be our third line next year. I still think sens resign michalek to a cheap 1 year deal. A rejuvenated rested healthy michalek Spezza duo with stone will be a fine first line as well

 

[Icelevel]

We're a victim of our own success. How good would we look with Landeskog and MacKinnon rather than pushing for wins during the rebuild.

Bryan Murray will get a lesson from his nefew(should be our gm right now) on how to build a team properly for success.

 

[FireMelnyk]

Stone displayed some really nice Hockey I.Q when he played with Spezza. Got into a bunch of scoring areas and got his opportunities. He just needs to learn how to finish it.

He also can't cover any player with any speed whatsoever in the defensive zone and has all of 2 points in 11 games.

Elite talent don't need unlimited opportunity to show their abilities.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

well great, but a huge part in this is the 2015 first round pick. Guarentee we don't get that no matter what we give up

Well... if we play with the proposed:

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Conacher-Zibanejad-Stone
Prince-Pageau-Lazar
Condra-Smith-Neil

and we make the playoffs with that forward group then it means Ryan or Turris broke out HUGE or Zibanejad/Pageau became legit 1b center or Conacher/Stone became excellent top 6ers or Prince broke out or...

It's a win-win.

We give our prospects playing time. They improve on their weaknesses and we could get McDavid.

If not, that means with the experience our forwards got, 2-3 young players broke out huge and we didn't need top 5 pick.