Confirmed Signing with Link: [TBL] Tampa signs Mikhail Sergachev (3 years, $4.8M AAV)

[Byrddog]

He may not be Point but he is far more valuable long term than either Johnson or Killorn. It doesn't really matter since Brisebois has been fairly adamant that none if the main rfa's are getting moved. He may have hoped to somehow keep Killorn, but unless one of Cirelli or Cernak is taking a short, one year Labanc type deal(and even then it may not be enough to keep Killorn) then Killorn is out. What Cirelli has already shown at 22/23 represents a kind of talent not easily replaced.

While Killorn is a fine player who brings good defense as well, he's usually a .5 ppg type winger who doesn't have the long term value to the team that Cirelli does. The team should try and get the best value possible for Killorn now as although he could continue to have years at a 60 point pace, based on history it's more likely he'll be back to a 40-45 point player. Cirelli and a 3rd/4th vs Killorn and a 1st that is very likely 25-31 in a weaker draft class is an easy move for Brisebois. If Tampa has to move a prospect, there are several that could be moved if needed. The only ones who are likely not available are Foote and possibly Barre-Boulet.

Although Tampa is in the middle of it's prime contention window, extending that window past just a couple more years of so will require some unpopular losses among older depth vets. Chicago lost a fair number of guys after 2010 but was able to keep the core mostly intact and through supplementing them with quality younger guys and some free agents was able to keep it rolling for 5 more years and 2 more Cups. Tampa can also have a chance at this but not by sacrificing the quality young pieces in exchange for an older, non core depth piece. Obviously Tampa will need a few of the younger guys like Volkov, Stephens and hopefully 1 or 2 other guys from the A to take a step in the next couple years, but that was going to need to happen regardless.

In the end, Killorn has been a fine player for Tampa, but it's a business and the best interests of the team must come first. At this time, keeping a 31 year old Killorn over either a very solid top 4 dman or a rising 2C that plays one of the better 2 way games for someone his age, that are both 23 doesn't make sense. Point-Cirelli is looking to give Tampa a formidable 1-2 punch at C for many years to come, and with Palat, Kucherov and Stamkos surrounding them in the top 6, Tampa should be fine either moving Gourde to 2LW or giving one of Volkov or maybe Barre-Boulet a shot there initially to see if either has chemistry with those guys. It'll be the first time Tampa has had to lose a couple depth guys, and that's mainly only because of the pandemic as had the cap risen as projected, likely Killorn could've been kept. It sucks to lose him but Tampa will still be one of the 3 or 4 teams with the best shot at another Cup, provided there is a season.

Here is the thing that not one of the keep Cirelli posters has been able to logically explain. In order to sign Cirelli and Cernak now that we are 2 mil above cap it will require moving both Johnson and Killorn thats 40 goals from each year since 16-17 Killorn has been in that range and Johnson since 13-14 now yes they are aging but they will still put up 35 to 40 goals combined at a minimum. Where are these to be replaced??????? Cirelli is not going to magically score 40 goals to cover the gap. In 18-19 Tampa led the league in goals scored with 325 and won the Presidents trophy subtract 40 goals they are at 285 thats 5th in the league that year still pretty dang good but those 40 goals were worth 15 to 20 points across the season. That season Kuch, Point and Stammer all had over 40 each something that does not happen often.

Now are Killorn and Johnson overpaid for what they have produced well yes but therein lies the issue another team will not be too willing to take on those contracts due to outlayed term and dollars if not Johnson would have been picked up when waived. But both are still good players and the secondary scoring they provide is critical. So again where will the lost goals be made up? Here is the sad truth you can not keep everyone you want, and you can not weaken your chances to repeat selling off production with no clear path to replacing it. Now if we knew Volkov, Joseph, Stephens, Barr-Boulet could then yeah move the older guys out and retool but remember it is going to take sweeteners to move Killer and Johnson whereas if you trade the rights to Cirelli or he signs a offer sheet you get return. Yeah Cirelli is a good player but there are current options on the roster to replace him and what he does. Replacing Killorn and Johnson dabbling into the unknowns. The solutions are small but the results of who they move is critical. The defense has already taken a hit with no Shattenkirk or Bogosian losing 40 goals from forwards is unacceptable.

 

[RogerRoger]

Here is the thing that not one of the keep Cirelli posters has been able to logically explain. In order to sign Cirelli and Cernak now that we are 2 mil above cap it will require moving both Johnson and Killorn thats 40 goals from each year since 16-17 Killorn has been in that range and Johnson since 13-14 now yes they are aging but they will still put up 35 to 40 goals combined at a minimum. Where are these to be replaced??????? Cirelli is not going to magically score 40 goals to cover the gap. In 18-19 Tampa led the league in goals scored with 325 and won the Presidents trophy subtract 40 goals they are at 285 thats 5th in the league that year still pretty dang good but those 40 goals were worth 15 to 20 points across the season. That season Kuch, Point and Stammer all had over 40 each something that does not happen often.

Now are Killorn and Johnson overpaid for what they have produced well yes but therein lies the issue another team will not be too willing to take on those contracts due to outlayed term and dollars if not Johnson would have been picked up when waived. But both are still good players and the secondary scoring they provide is critical. So again where will the lost goals be made up? Here is the sad truth you can not keep everyone you want, and you can not weaken your chances to repeat selling off production with no clear path to replacing it. Now if we knew Volkov, Joseph, Stephens, Barr-Boulet could then yeah move the older guys out and retool but remember it is going to take sweeteners to move Killer and Johnson whereas if you trade the rights to Cirelli or he signs a offer sheet you get return. Yeah Cirelli is a good player but there are current options on the roster to replace him and what he does. Replacing Killorn and Johnson dabbling into the unknowns. The solutions are small but the results of who they move is critical. The defense has already taken a hit with no Shattenkirk or Bogosian losing 40 goals from forwards is unacceptable.

You seem to forget that players will have to come into the lineup to replace Killorn and Johnson and that they will also replace their icetime. So you are not down 40 goals at all.
Let's say you replace TJ with Mathieu Joseph, what would be the impact on goals created. TJ over the last 3 years has average about 0.23 goals created per game with a TOI of 16 minutes. Joseph has 0.13 goals created with 11 minutes of TOI. For arguments' sake, let's just say that he bumbs up to 0.18 goals created if he played the same amount of minutes with the same linemate has TJ. Over 82 games, the difference is 19 goals created vs 15. You are not down 20 goals, you are down 4 goals.

Something similar could be done with Killorn. If you shed enough salary maybe you have enough cap space to bring in someone for the playoff run or you have enough for a cheap one year deal for Granlund or Soderberg. Who knows, but you are not losing 40 goals.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Here is the thing that not one of the keep Cirelli posters has been able to logically explain. In order to sign Cirelli and Cernak now that we are 2 mil above cap it will require moving both Johnson and Killorn thats 40 goals from each year since 16-17 Killorn has been in that range and Johnson since 13-14 now yes they are aging but they will still put up 35 to 40 goals combined at a minimum. Where are these to be replaced??????? Cirelli is not going to magically score 40 goals to cover the gap. In 18-19 Tampa led the league in goals scored with 325 and won the Presidents trophy subtract 40 goals they are at 285 thats 5th in the league that year still pretty dang good but those 40 goals were worth 15 to 20 points across the season. That season Kuch, Point and Stammer all had over 40 each something that does not happen often.

Now are Killorn and Johnson overpaid for what they have produced well yes but therein lies the issue another team will not be too willing to take on those contracts due to outlayed term and dollars if not Johnson would have been picked up when waived. But both are still good players and the secondary scoring they provide is critical. So again where will the lost goals be made up? Here is the sad truth you can not keep everyone you want, and you can not weaken your chances to repeat selling off production with no clear path to replacing it. Now if we knew Volkov, Joseph, Stephens, Barr-Boulet could then yeah move the older guys out and retool but remember it is going to take sweeteners to move Killer and Johnson whereas if you trade the rights to Cirelli or he signs a offer sheet you get return. Yeah Cirelli is a good player but there are current options on the roster to replace him and what he does. Replacing Killorn and Johnson dabbling into the unknowns. The solutions are small but the results of who they move is critical. The defense has already taken a hit with no Shattenkirk or Bogosian losing 40 goals from forwards is unacceptable.

Where are goals to be replaced? Well if we talking regular season stats you have a full season of Coleman that you didn't have before. If we are talking playoffs you are hoping Stamkos can stay healthy.

TBL will not big time miss what Johnson was last year. He had an off year. And yes with change of scenery, more playing time and more pp2 time his stats should get better after a trade. But "nice" 3rd line players are replaceable.

Killorn is the player that will hurt. And we can debate how much last year Killorn had was puck luck. We can debate did Killorn stats go up because Killorn makes Cirelli better or does Cirelli make Killorn better(I say the 2nd choice). And yes Killorn leadership will be missed. Minus Johnson and Killorn I would make the case the biggest loss is the leadership and not the goals. If Killorn would waive to Columbus I can see him and Torts being a perfect marriage. But I ask a reverse question. Who would be 2 way player at c to replace the top 10 Selke Cirelli on the 2nd line? Barr-Boulet may replace the goals scored but he won't replace the Selke votes.

Minus Johnson and Killorn the WORST WORST WORST case scenario is 3rd best team in NHL behind Colorado and Vegas. Guessing a whole lot of fan bases would trade for that.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

Bolts have had little success in past half decade in their first round picks! They excel in mid round picks and their roster is littered with players taken between the 2 and 4th rounds. And the 2020 first round picks netted Coleman and Goodreau who certainly bring more than just a typical rental return. Bolts will gladly trade their #1 pick if it means being able to keep Cirelli and Cernak while giving up Johnson, Coburn, and Paquette. Killorn is the wild card and he could get moved if team cant move Coburn and/or Paquette.

I agree they excel on mid round picks.
But Stamkos, Hedman and Vasy were all first round picks with Brayden Point being a second rounder. They along with Kuch are the foundation of the team you have been watching for years.

Mid round picks if they hit at all usually do when you bring them on more slowly. When this foundation were all young thay could do that. The problem is this corps is not longer young and they no longer have 3 years to develop replacements.

it is equally important to realize the Coleman and Goodrow are not only free agents after this year but they are also going to be both north of 30 years of age

 

[ShaneinTpa]

Who cares about a very late 2021 1st in a weak draft class? You mean a player that might be able to help Tampa by 2024, if they're lucky? You talk about mortgaging the future and yet you'd rather keep a 31 year old winger and a 1st that doesn't help anytime soon while giving up Cirelli, whatever decent assets they might be able to get for him and Johnson instead...yeah future looks real bright with that plan...

Tampa's going to lose a solid player to Seattle as well unless they make a deal, but they won't be the only ones. Tampa has prospects that are waiting for a shot, and the organization has primarily built from within in the past. In the next 2 or 3 years there will be more young guys getting a shot, but the core should remain intact. Johnson and Killorn are out this year, probably one of Gourde, Palat or McD is gone after next(depends on whether Tampa protects 7F+3D or 8 mixed). The team will be fine with the combination of vets and youth among the key players.

Killorn and Johnson aren't part of the core nor are they, a late 1st poor odds scratch off ticket and a mid pick/solid prospect more valuable in 3 years than having Cirelli, Cernak and a mid pick. Thankfully JBB doesn't think like you and clutch on to 1sts like their gold, or they probably don't get either Coleman or Goodrow and very possibly don't lift the Cup this year.

Now you’re just getting testy. Let’s make one thing clear I never said I wanted to trade Cirelli. I just said it was likely going to happen if it meant giving up 2 starting 9 1 or more first round draft picks and/or prospects to do it.

And speaking of Coleman and Goodrow, I absolutely would have made those deals in pursuit of the cup. But having said that they’re both free agents at the end of this year and are also both going to be over 30 years of age. You can’t keep doing that.

This whole thing is a fine line. Yes Tampa Bay has a better chance of winning another cup again short term with Cirelli. On the other hand if keeping him means losing first round draft picks he would have to be seen as a long term equivalent to Stamkos and of a similar caliber to Brayden Point. The jury is still very much out on that

 

[DaBolts]

What? Why would they ever do that?

We would sweeten it with some 2nd/3rd rounders and a prospect or two.

 

[JTBF81]

Now you’re just getting testy. Let’s make one thing clear I never said I wanted to trade Cirelli. I just said it was likely going to happen if it meant giving up 2 starting 9 1 or more first round draft picks and/or prospects to do it.

And speaking of Coleman and Goodrow, I absolutely would have made those deals in pursuit of the cup. But having said that they’re both free agents at the end of this year and are also both going to be over 30 years of age. You can’t keep doing that.

This whole thing is a fine line. Yes Tampa Bay has a better chance of winning another cup again short term with Cirelli. On the other hand if keeping him means losing first round draft picks he would have to be seen as a long term equivalent to Stamkos and of a similar caliber to Brayden Point. The jury is still very much out on that

But it's not just giving them up to keep Cirelli, it's trading them to keep Cirelli, Cernak and a pick for Killorn. Cirelli and Cernak gives them a far better chance at more Cups both short and long term over Killorn, Johnson, a late 1st that has about a 25% chance of amounting to any real nhl success, and maybe a decent prospect that also hasn't done anything yet.

Speaking of Coleman and Goodrow, getting them for 2 shots at the Cup at the cost they were at was a fantastic move, at least we agree there. I think Goodrow has a decent chance to stay for a relatively small cap hit, while Coleman may or may not leave depending on the $ and if he wants to stay. Either way, I think they will come in cheaper combined than what any 2 of Killorn, Palat, Gourde or Johnson are making now.

Even if keeping Cirelli and Cernak does cost the late 1st next year in a Johnson trade, again, both of the younger players show great skills already. In 5 years they will be 28 and in their primes while Killorn will be 36 and in the twilight of his career. Losing his leadership is the biggest loss for sure, but losing a career .5 ppg type player that can't replace Cirelli at all and a future maybe late 1st is the far better choice than sacrificing Cirelli and decent picks to move Johnson. The return on Cirelli would have to be a heavy overpay for Brisebois to seriously consider moving a top 4 Selke 2C in his 2nd year. Since no one in this environment is going to do that, he won't be going anywhere.

 

[JTBF81]

Here is the thing that not one of the keep Cirelli posters has been able to logically explain. In order to sign Cirelli and Cernak now that we are 2 mil above cap it will require moving both Johnson and Killorn thats 40 goals from each year since 16-17 Killorn has been in that range and Johnson since 13-14 now yes they are aging but they will still put up 35 to 40 goals combined at a minimum. Where are these to be replaced??????? Cirelli is not going to magically score 40 goals to cover the gap. In 18-19 Tampa led the league in goals scored with 325 and won the Presidents trophy subtract 40 goals they are at 285 thats 5th in the league that year still pretty dang good but those 40 goals were worth 15 to 20 points across the season. That season Kuch, Point and Stammer all had over 40 each something that does not happen often.

Now are Killorn and Johnson overpaid for what they have produced well yes but therein lies the issue another team will not be too willing to take on those contracts due to outlayed term and dollars if not Johnson would have been picked up when waived. But both are still good players and the secondary scoring they provide is critical. So again where will the lost goals be made up? Here is the sad truth you can not keep everyone you want, and you can not weaken your chances to repeat selling off production with no clear path to replacing it. Now if we knew Volkov, Joseph, Stephens, Barr-Boulet could then yeah move the older guys out and retool but remember it is going to take sweeteners to move Killer and Johnson whereas if you trade the rights to Cirelli or he signs a offer sheet you get return. Yeah Cirelli is a good player but there are current options on the roster to replace him and what he does. Replacing Killorn and Johnson dabbling into the unknowns. The solutions are small but the results of who they move is critical. The defense has already taken a hit with no Shattenkirk or Bogosian losing 40 goals from forwards is unacceptable.

As has already been pointed out, Cirelli with a bigger role plus the replacements for Killorn and Johnson does not equate to a loss of 40 goals. Sorry, but Tampa isn't moving Cirelli and they won't need a sweetener to move Killorn. If they want to quickly lose Cup contender status, they will keep depth role players at the expense of rising young 2C's and solid top 4 defensemen.

Killorn's biggest loss is his leadership and defense, not his usual 15-20 goals. Banking on him averaging close to 30 for the next 3 years is a bad bet based on history. If Killorn could play C and was 3 or 4 years younger, maybe keeping him over Cirelli could reasonably be argued. Tampa will rely on a couple younger guys in the next few seasons, but it's not the first time, nor will it be the last.

As long as the main core pieces remain, the Lightning can be serious contenders for at least 5 more years, perhaps more. Keeping Stamkos, Point, Hedman, Serg, Cirelli, Vasi, Cernak, and probably Palat is key. I also think McD and Gourde are viewed favorably but can definitely see at least one of them out after next year(but a lot depends on what Brisebois plans are for Goodrow, Coleman and the expansion draft). Tampa will need younger players to begin to step up in the near future, and there are at least a few(Volkov, ABB, Stephens, perhaps Raddysh) that look like they could be at least solid middle to bottom 6 regulars. Tampa will be fine without Killorn and Johnson, perhaps the offense doesn't break records, but I'd bet they'll still be a top 3 goal scoring team barring major injuries.

 

[Byrddog]

You seem to forget that players will have to come into the lineup to replace Killorn and Johnson and that they will also replace their icetime. So you are not down 40 goals at all.
Let's say you replace TJ with Mathieu Joseph, what would be the impact on goals created. TJ over the last 3 years has average about 0.23 goals created per game with a TOI of 16 minutes. Joseph has 0.13 goals created with 11 minutes of TOI. For arguments' sake, let's just say that he bumbs up to 0.18 goals created if he played the same amount of minutes with the same linemate has TJ. Over 82 games, the difference is 19 goals created vs 15. You are not down 20 goals, you are down 4 goals.

Something similar could be done with Killorn. If you shed enough salary maybe you have enough cap space to bring in someone for the playoff run or you have enough for a cheap one year deal for Granlund or Soderberg. Who knows, but you are not losing 40 goals.

Well your theory fell thru when you started adding players. Remember the team is over the cap 2 mil right now. And they have not signed Volkov, Joseph, Cernak, Cirelli and you want to add Granlund or Soderberg. Even if you take your shoes off and use your toes to count the math will not work. You are not going to sign those five players for the 8.5 mil left from trading both Killorn and Johnson if in fact JBB can find trading partner. And even if Foote is the plan for the 7th dman there is another 925k there.
Further you can not deny that each of the last 3 seasons Johnson and Killorn combined for 40 Joseph had a good strech his rookie year scoring 13 last year he was sent back down because he was not going to break 10 and Joseph is a borderline NHL player at best.

Where are goals to be replaced? Well if we talking regular season stats you have a full season of Coleman that you didn't have before. If we are talking playoffs you are hoping Stamkos can stay healthy.

TBL will not big time miss what Johnson was last year. He had an off year. And yes with change of scenery, more playing time and more pp2 time his stats should get better after a trade. But "nice" 3rd line players are replaceable.

Killorn is the player that will hurt. And we can debate how much last year Killorn had was puck luck. We can debate did Killorn stats go up because Killorn makes Cirelli better or does Cirelli make Killorn better(I say the 2nd choice). And yes Killorn leadership will be missed. Minus Johnson and Killorn I would make the case the biggest loss is the leadership and not the goals. If Killorn would waive to Columbus I can see him and Torts being a perfect marriage. But I ask a reverse question. Who would be 2 way player at c to replace the top 10 Selke Cirelli on the 2nd line? Barr-Boulet may replace the goals scored but he won't replace the Selke votes.

Minus Johnson and Killorn the WORST WORST WORST case scenario is 3rd best team in NHL behind Colorado and Vegas. Guessing a whole lot of fan bases would trade for that.

Your point on the relationship between Killer and Cirelli is valid but sliding Stammer back to C is not going to diminish Killers 18 to 20 goal normal production. Now the Selke votes mean something as well but so does the addition of Coleman and Goodrow into the two way game. Barr-Boulet may in time become a 20 goal guy but that is to be seen he is 23 now and just shown the ability to AHL last season the Q is a great development league and the AHL gets them ready to play the adult league but transferring talent into the league just does not happen overnight. Now could he catch fire like Point did well sure but do not forget that Kuch only had 9 goals his first season and only 18 points after being a point per game guy in the AHL and 2 points per game in the Q. It will take time.

As has already been pointed out, Cirelli with a bigger role plus the replacements for Killorn and Johnson does not equate to a loss of 40 goals. Sorry, but Tampa isn't moving Cirelli and they won't need a sweetener to move Killorn. If they want to quickly lose Cup contender status, they will keep depth role players at the expense of rising young 2C's and solid top 4 defensemen.

Killorn's biggest loss is his leadership and defense, not his usual 15-20 goals. Banking on him averaging close to 30 for the next 3 years is a bad bet based on history. If Killorn could play C and was 3 or 4 years younger, maybe keeping him over Cirelli could reasonably be argued. Tampa will rely on a couple younger guys in the next few seasons, but it's not the first time, nor will it be the last.

As long as the main core pieces remain, the Lightning can be serious contenders for at least 5 more years, perhaps more. Keeping Stamkos, Point, Hedman, Serg, Cirelli, Vasi, Cernak, and probably Palat is key. I also think McD and Gourde are viewed favorably but can definitely see at least one of them out after next year(but a lot depends on what Brisebois plans are for Goodrow, Coleman and the expansion draft). Tampa will need younger players to begin to step up in the near future, and there are at least a few(Volkov, ABB, Stephens, perhaps Raddysh) that look like they could be at least solid middle to bottom 6 regulars. Tampa will be fine without Killorn and Johnson, perhaps the offense doesn't break records, but I'd bet they'll still be a top 3 goal scoring team barring major injuries.

I do not disagree that age will start to hurt Killer as it does all players I do not agree that it is age that cost Johnsons production. Moving Johnson from the center to the wing has resulted in a drop of 4 to 8 goals to make a slot for Cirelli. Now imagine if Cirelli was moved to the wing would he still be the player he is at center? Thats a pretty clear no it would also remove his strong attribute's defensively. And I also agree under normal conditions your core would be the way to go but right now nothing is normal. With each passing day the chances for a season this year diminish, even Bettman came out yesterday predicting even a 48 game start would be conservatively starting the 3rd week of Feb and came inline with Dailey that next year needed to start on time in Oct and any season this year would have to be complete by July 17 when the Olympics begin or are scheduled to begin. What impact does that have? Well the Cap has been agreed it would not increase the next two seasons and missing a season this year will only hurt it in the future. Recall after each of the recent seasons that were canceled the Cap dropped. In 12-13 it dropped 4 mil which represented a 6 percent drop if the same holds true 81.5 mil becomes 76.6 mil but the 65 could be more but it is curious that the league has asked for another 6% from the players association. This is the impact of the core we want to keep as well. Bridges will run out before the Cap starts to go back up including Point, Sergi, Cernak, Cirelli, and the only significate relief will be Palat's 5 mil dropping off and that in no way can cover the raises for those core players increases even if they take bargain basement bridges. So at Best if there is no hockey this year the window is only open 1 year. So is it worth it clearing the room for Cirelli????? I am not too sure. Cirelli is a good player but Johnson and Killorn have been good players as well. And each year we are going to have to lose a good player until the window closes but subtracting two for one is not a good recipe for extending and that looks to be what is going to happen. Is it not Irocnc that the Hawks won the cup in 13 and 15 in the middle of the last season cancelation then they crashed and burned. History does repeat.

 

[RogerRoger]

Well your theory fell thru when you started adding players. Remember the team is over the cap 2 mil right now. And they have not signed Volkov, Joseph, Cernak, Cirelli and you want to add Granlund or Soderberg. Even if you take your shoes off and use your toes to count the math will not work. You are not going to sign those five players for the 8.5 mil left from trading both Killorn and Johnson if in fact JBB can find trading partner. And even if Foote is the plan for the 7th dman there is another 925k there.
Further you can not deny that each of the last 3 seasons Johnson and Killorn combined for 40 Joseph had a good strech his rookie year scoring 13 last year he was sent back down because he was not going to break 10 and Joseph is a borderline NHL player at best.

lmao you would be adding guys depending on what it takes to move Killorn and Johnson. Your idea is to trade Cirelli+Johnson or wait for an offer sheet to Cirelli which is a bit laughable since Cirelli won't get more than Killorn if he stays in Tampa. So you would get much worse and save less money. Also, Cirelli creates as many goals as Killorn, so you wouldn't even be in a better position based on that dodgy 40 goals issue you keep pointing at. But please, keep the older more expensive guy that is about to decline because you are infatuated with a unsustainable shooting %.
I really wish JBB does what you suggest though, it would be great for the rest of the Eastern Conference.

 

[Byrddog]

lmao you would be adding guys depending on what it takes to move Killorn and Johnson. Your idea is to trade Cirelli+Johnson or wait for an offer sheet to Cirelli which is a bit laughable since Cirelli won't get more than Killorn if he stays in Tampa. So you would get much worse and save less money. Also, Cirelli creates as many goals as Killorn, so you wouldn't even be in a better position based on that dodgy 40 goals issue you keep pointing at. But please, keep the older more expensive guy that is about to decline because you are infatuated with a unsustainable shooting %.
I really wish JBB does what you suggest though, it would be great for the rest of the Eastern Conference.

What is laughable "your Words" is the primise that you move Killorn and Johnson to sign Cirelli yes one will have to be moved to get under the cap and sign Cernak. But you and most just think move them both and wait until the bridge is over on Point, Cirelli, Sergi and Cernak and only be able to afford two of the four. It is impossibe to make most of you to be able to see this. And the argument is going to continue into the summer. riddle me this when these bridge contracts expire what will be the next contract amounts. Point is at 6.7 now Sergi at 4.8 here is a clue Point will push to be paid more than anyother forward on the team at that point and Sergi will be in the 7 to 8 mil range cernak if he signs for say 2.5 this bridge and Cirelli say 3.5 they are going to be looking at 4 and 5.5 after the bridge. So roughly 9 mil in raises after those bridges yes Palat falls off at 5.3 that year but he will need to be replaced even if he is replaced with Barr-Boulet he will cost a couple mil per so JBB will need 11 mil and only have Palats 5.3 to work with. So your going to lose Cirelli and probably Sergi added to losing Johnson, Killorn. Mac will then be on the border of playing 3rd pair at age 34 pretty much untradable due to his 6.7 mil cap hit for another three years. But by all means Cirelli is just too important to move so we close the cup window in two years.

 

[RogerRoger]

What is laughable "your Words" is the primise that you move Killorn and Johnson to sign Cirelli yes one will have to be moved to get under the cap and sign Cernak. But you and most just think move them both and wait until the bridge is over on Point, Cirelli, Sergi and Cernak and only be able to afford two of the four. It is impossibe to make most of you to be able to see this. And the argument is going to continue into the summer. riddle me this when these bridge contracts expire what will be the next contract amounts. Point is at 6.7 now Sergi at 4.8 here is a clue Point will push to be paid more than anyother forward on the team at that point and Sergi will be in the 7 to 8 mil range cernak if he signs for say 2.5 this bridge and Cirelli say 3.5 they are going to be looking at 4 and 5.5 after the bridge. So roughly 9 mil in raises after those bridges yes Palat falls off at 5.3 that year but he will need to be replaced even if he is replaced with Barr-Boulet he will cost a couple mil per so JBB will need 11 mil and only have Palats 5.3 to work with. So your going to lose Cirelli and probably Sergi added to losing Johnson, Killorn. Mac will then be on the border of playing 3rd pair at age 34 pretty much untradable due to his 6.7 mil cap hit for another three years. But by all means Cirelli is just too important to move so we close the cup window in two years.

You are proposing to get $0.50 on the dollar now instead of trading them later at full value because you are afraid of the cap crunch in 3 years. That's terrible asset management.
3 years is a really long time and who knows how much things will change between now and then. You don't even have an idea of how they'll perform, which youngster will dominate, if the Cap will increase. Back in the Summer of 2017 I wonder how much you were worried about McDonaugh and Cirelli's impact on the Cap in 2020.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

But it's not just giving them up to keep Cirelli, it's trading them to keep Cirelli, Cernak and a pick for Killorn. Cirelli and Cernak gives them a far better chance at more Cups both short and long term over Killorn, Johnson, a late 1st that has about a 25% chance of amounting to any real nhl success, and maybe a decent prospect that also hasn't done anything yet.

Speaking of Coleman and Goodrow, getting them for 2 shots at the Cup at the cost they were at was a fantastic move, at least we agree there. I think Goodrow has a decent chance to stay for a relatively small cap hit, while Coleman may or may not leave depending on the $ and if he wants to stay. Either way, I think they will come in cheaper combined than what any 2 of Killorn, Palat, Gourde or Johnson are making now.

Even if keeping Cirelli and Cernak does cost the late 1st next year in a Johnson trade, again, both of the younger players show great skills already. In 5 years they will be 28 and in their primes while Killorn will be 36 and in the twilight of his career. Losing his leadership is the biggest loss for sure, but losing a career .5 ppg type player that can't replace Cirelli at all and a future maybe late 1st is the far better choice than sacrificing Cirelli and decent picks to move Johnson. The return on Cirelli would have to be a heavy overpay for Brisebois to seriously consider moving a top 4 Selke 2C in his 2nd year. Since no one in this environment is going to do that, he won't be going anywhere.

We are a lot closer to being on the same page than you think. I’m not concerned about losing Killorn or Johnson. But if it’s any more than those two and one draft pick it’s an overpayment. You keep saying how little value our first round pick will have next year yet somehow you are finding value in a much lower pick we MIGHT get for Killorn.

The bottom line is to move both of those players it’s gonna cost us more than a first round draft pick. Since we don’t have a second at the end of the coming season in all likelihood somebody’s gonna want a high-level prospect that will need to replace the two roster players we jettison or our first round draft pick in 2022. That is where we may differ the most. If the Lightning give up their next two first round draft picks to keep any player on this team there will be a disconnect between the aging core veterans and the pipeline it takes to replace them. Since I have been a season-ticket member for 25 years I can’t say that I am especially enthusiastic about going all in for one more cup at the expense of missing the playoffs for five years. If you don’t think it happens look at Los Angeles Chicago and Detroit.

 

[Byrddog]

You are proposing to get $0.50 on the dollar now instead of trading them later at full value because you are afraid of the cap crunch in 3 years. That's terrible asset management.
3 years is a really long time and who knows how much things will change between now and then. You don't even have an idea of how they'll perform, which youngster will dominate, if the Cap will increase. Back in the Summer of 2017 I wonder how much you were worried about McDonaugh and Cirelli's impact on the Cap in 2020.

I have always been Cap conscious before it was cool to do so. `And I am not afraid of keeping a team together with as few changes as possible after winning a cup as well. Currently the gorilla in the room is the defense. Now understand this I dispise Kevin Shattenkirk I have not liked him since the Blues days nor did I like Bogosian on the team but I can not ignore the role each played and missing there skills going forward. This team before last season proved just as Edmonton continues to prove you can not win a cup on offense alone. This is why I too heat just after the season when I posted that the goal was to get Sergi and Cernak inked and JBB is half way there. I am near 60 years old and have played and followed this sport for nearly 50 of those years. Historically only 20% of players entering the league play more than 200 games. So I am not a real big supporter of draft picks outside the top 5 in most years and put little faith in those picked past 10th as forwards. The rush to youth movement in the league is a sign of the times which fails more often than not. This is not to say young players have no place on teams but hoping that a ELC can come in and provide both the scoring and leadership of veterans is simply asinine. I want to provide a few examples. Starting with generational players it too Nathan McKinnion 4 full season to breakout, Leon Drisital 4 years in the league to reach his potential, 3 years for Jack Eichel to be a PPG guy and these are top guys the Crosbys and McDavids of the world are few and far between those that can step in at 18 and be the man. Now I will point out development lets consider two guys Emerson Etem and Linden Vey both had years in Medicine hat over 110 points both made it to the league and just failed.

I have said it many times there is a reason that all these guys were given NMC's and NTC's the core was built and the depth guys signed long term with movement clauses. Have some of them been overpaid well yes but the torpedoing of Johnson for his numbers slipping after he was moved from his natural position to the wing to make room for a one dimensional Cirelli Johnson can play all three forward positions and has while Cirelli has not shown the ability to play wing Johnson had his best season as a triplet well playing with Kuch who would not. The difference in Cirelli's defensive play and Johnsons is really not as big of a gap that many say but he is younger therefore better in the rush to youth. Anthony is a really good player except his play after coming back from the covid break which was pretty poor until the finals.

Now you may be the optimist looking three years into the future but this is one thing that is certian the Cap is stuck until 22-23 for sure and it is VERY likely to decrease if no season is played this year. Look at each of the season lost since the Cap was put into the league in 03-04 before the lockout the average team spent 44 mil in salary 04-05 lockout then the Cap in the contract for 05-06 the cap was set at 39 mil so the lost year cost minimum of 5 mil in player payroll average. When they missed most of 12-13 the cap dropped from 64.3 to 60 mil a decrease of 4 mil. Now we are staring at a partial missed 19-20 and a very good chance of totally missing 20-21. Yet many think that the cap will be above 81.5 in 22-23. A second wave of covid mass losses of jobs worldwide announced ticket prices up 20% in most cities current prediction of 3 to 5 teams filing for bankruptcy before any decision made on the 20-21 season. 18 of the 31 teams pushing to cancel the season where they would only lose 15 million verses losing over 60 mil per team if they play in empty arenas. Now as fans we want to see games I get it but we can not hide our heads in the sand ignoring the damage already done to the league and the damage a 20-21 season is going to cost. Yet many just slide along and argue about things like nothing has happened. Well the teams are sure not doing this or FA's out there would have contracts trades would have been made like most every year. You see arguments about whos owners have billions of dollars and can afford stupidity. But I assure you of this these folks did not make there money by losing millions each year, nor will they condone losing 15 to 60 million for a 45 game season. At this point the contract that was recently signed is worthless if the players association does not realize this and both sides go back to the table the NHL may well not survive this. TV money will not support 1/2 of this Cap and if history repeats and it usually does the league will be lucky if they can hold a 70 mil Cap for 22-23. The damage is already done The league, the players and the fans are still refusing to acknowledge it. This is not a government program where you can spend twice the amount you collect.

 

[JTBF81]

We are a lot closer to being on the same page than you think. I’m not concerned about losing Killorn or Johnson. But if it’s any more than those two and one draft pick it’s an overpayment. You keep saying how little value our first round pick will have next year yet somehow you are finding value in a much lower pick we MIGHT get for Killorn.

The bottom line is to move both of those players it’s gonna cost us more than a first round draft pick. Since we don’t have a second at the end of the coming season in all likelihood somebody’s gonna want a high-level prospect that will need to replace the two roster players we jettison or our first round draft pick in 2022. That is where we may differ the most. If the Lightning give up their next two first round draft picks to keep any player on this team there will be a disconnect between the aging core veterans and the pipeline it takes to replace them. Since I have been a season-ticket member for 25 years I can’t say that I am especially enthusiastic about going all in for one more cup at the expense of missing the playoffs for five years. If you don’t think it happens look at Los Angeles Chicago and Detroit.

Detroit was good for many years, of course that was mostly before the salary cap so not exactly the same. Chicago and L.A. made some mistakes but did win 5 Cups between them and were top contenders for 5-7 years. Tampa should honestly have at least 2 Cups with this core by now but it is what it is.

JBB has proven smart enough so far that I don't believe he will sacrifice two more first round picks to move Johnson and/or Killorn. In any other year Killorn would get a 2nd+ but now probably a 3rd. While a 3rd round pick obv doesn't have the value that a late 1st does, in either case that player has no chance of playing in Tampa until 2024 given their usual development plan with prospects.

Sure Cirelli has only been in the league 2 seasons, but when he is at 100% he seems to be a pretty special talent. I don't want to lose Killorn either, but keeping him and a maybe pick and prospect over Cirelli does far more damage to the team down the road as well as now. If Killorn could play C and replace what Cirelli brings, sure, get the better assets for Cirelli and take your chances. Since Killorn can't and is far more likely to be a solid, but not spectacular depth player the.next 2 to 3 years, have to value Cirelli here over him and a 1st.

Most likely by 2024 at least 3 of Palat, Killorn, Gourde and Johnson are gone, maybe all 4 depending on how many young players have made the jump, whether Coleman/Goodrow get re-signed and the situation with McD. If Cirelli gets traded now then that's one less skilled young player and then Killorn will be aging. Then when he's gone Tampa will have yet another top 6/9 spot to fill. It's very difficult obv to try and predict how the team will look in 3 years but I can't see how being down 3 if not 4 of the ~5 million guys plus Cirelli makes Tampa better at that point.

I do believe that Tampa will try and move McDonagh sooner rather than later, either through the expansion draft perhaps but within the next 2 to 3 seasons tops. If they can move him, that would likely create enough space to keep one more of the better F over that time while also preparing for the next contracts of Point and these 3 rfas. These 4 guys imo will be the 4 that the next iteration of Tampa is built around as the years go on, plus Vasi and Kuch. Hedman should also be great for a few more years as well. Anyway, it will be interesting but at least the Bolts move forward with this core having won a Cup, thus making this situation much less agonizing or worrisome.

 

[DFC]

Here is the thing that not one of the keep Cirelli posters has been able to logically explain. In order to sign Cirelli and Cernak now that we are 2 mil above cap it will require moving both Johnson and Killorn thats 40 goals from each year since 16-17 Killorn has been in that range and Johnson since 13-14 now yes they are aging but they will still put up 35 to 40 goals combined at a minimum. Where are these to be replaced??????? Cirelli is not going to magically score 40 goals to cover the gap. In 18-19 Tampa led the league in goals scored with 325 and won the Presidents trophy subtract 40 goals they are at 285 thats 5th in the league that year still pretty dang good but those 40 goals were worth 15 to 20 points across the season. That season Kuch, Point and Stammer all had over 40 each something that does not happen often.

Now are Killorn and Johnson overpaid for what they have produced well yes but therein lies the issue another team will not be too willing to take on those contracts due to outlayed term and dollars if not Johnson would have been picked up when waived. But both are still good players and the secondary scoring they provide is critical. So again where will the lost goals be made up? Here is the sad truth you can not keep everyone you want, and you can not weaken your chances to repeat selling off production with no clear path to replacing it. Now if we knew Volkov, Joseph, Stephens, Barr-Boulet could then yeah move the older guys out and retool but remember it is going to take sweeteners to move Killer and Johnson whereas if you trade the rights to Cirelli or he signs a offer sheet you get return. Yeah Cirelli is a good player but there are current options on the roster to replace him and what he does. Replacing Killorn and Johnson dabbling into the unknowns. The solutions are small but the results of who they move is critical. The defense has already taken a hit with no Shattenkirk or Bogosian losing 40 goals from forwards is unacceptable.

We don't actually lose 40 goals. We lose 40 goals minus the goals put in by the replacement. Some of them will come from Gourde, who had a great post-season and looks back to form. Some will come from Coleman and Goodrow. I'm not overly worried about replacing the goals.

 

[Byrddog]

We don't actually lose 40 goals. We lose 40 goals minus the goals put in by the replacement. Some of them will come from Gourde, who had a great post-season and looks back to form. Some will come from Coleman and Goodrow. I'm not overly worried about replacing the goals.

I agree with you on Yanni I think he does return to the 20 goal level and Coleman should be a 15-15 guy Goodrow not so much 8 goals has been his career year and that is pretty typical for a 3rd line wing. Verhaghe had 9 goals so Goodrow will just be a wash and replacing Johnson with Coleman will be a wash as well. One can not help to have been pleased with the 3rd line from the playoffs. But only making up for Johnson and Killorn is just p[art of it Shattenkirk is gone and while his 8 goals was not impressive it is still a loss and even with his many Gaffs the D is going to miss him in the defensive zone. The bottom line will boil down to GF vs GA last year 243GF and 194GA the year prior 319 to 221. Theres little doubt the team will still have a + in differential but it will be more narrow and when you look at 5 on 5 last year was not as impressive 147 vs 135. We can not say that the defense will be better while it is still solid the 3rd pair is a concern especially when you can just expect Mac and Hedman to miss some games and surprisingly Cernak has not played over 70 games in either of his two seasons so Schenn and Coburn would need to play up which is not comforting.

Of course with the Cap situation we have to expect some derogation from the real domination the team has had over the last two seasons in the regular season. We can still expect wins most every night but they are not going to be as comfortable.

 

[RogerRoger]

I have always been Cap conscious before it was cool to do so. `And I am not afraid of keeping a team together with as few changes as possible after winning a cup as well. Currently the gorilla in the room is the defense. Now understand this I dispise Kevin Shattenkirk I have not liked him since the Blues days nor did I like Bogosian on the team but I can not ignore the role each played and missing there skills going forward. This team before last season proved just as Edmonton continues to prove you can not win a cup on offense alone. This is why I too heat just after the season when I posted that the goal was to get Sergi and Cernak inked and JBB is half way there. I am near 60 years old and have played and followed this sport for nearly 50 of those years. Historically only 20% of players entering the league play more than 200 games. So I am not a real big supporter of draft picks outside the top 5 in most years and put little faith in those picked past 10th as forwards. The rush to youth movement in the league is a sign of the times which fails more often than not. This is not to say young players have no place on teams but hoping that a ELC can come in and provide both the scoring and leadership of veterans is simply asinine. I want to provide a few examples. Starting with generational players it too Nathan McKinnion 4 full season to breakout, Leon Drisital 4 years in the league to reach his potential, 3 years for Jack Eichel to be a PPG guy and these are top guys the Crosbys and McDavids of the world are few and far between those that can step in at 18 and be the man. Now I will point out development lets consider two guys Emerson Etem and Linden Vey both had years in Medicine hat over 110 points both made it to the league and just failed.

I have said it many times there is a reason that all these guys were given NMC's and NTC's the core was built and the depth guys signed long term with movement clauses. Have some of them been overpaid well yes but the torpedoing of Johnson for his numbers slipping after he was moved from his natural position to the wing to make room for a one dimensional Cirelli Johnson can play all three forward positions and has while Cirelli has not shown the ability to play wing Johnson had his best season as a triplet well playing with Kuch who would not. The difference in Cirelli's defensive play and Johnsons is really not as big of a gap that many say but he is younger therefore better in the rush to youth. Anthony is a really good player except his play after coming back from the covid break which was pretty poor until the finals.

Now you may be the optimist looking three years into the future but this is one thing that is certian the Cap is stuck until 22-23 for sure and it is VERY likely to decrease if no season is played this year. Look at each of the season lost since the Cap was put into the league in 03-04 before the lockout the average team spent 44 mil in salary 04-05 lockout then the Cap in the contract for 05-06 the cap was set at 39 mil so the lost year cost minimum of 5 mil in player payroll average. When they missed most of 12-13 the cap dropped from 64.3 to 60 mil a decrease of 4 mil. Now we are staring at a partial missed 19-20 and a very good chance of totally missing 20-21. Yet many think that the cap will be above 81.5 in 22-23. A second wave of covid mass losses of jobs worldwide announced ticket prices up 20% in most cities current prediction of 3 to 5 teams filing for bankruptcy before any decision made on the 20-21 season. 18 of the 31 teams pushing to cancel the season where they would only lose 15 million verses losing over 60 mil per team if they play in empty arenas. Now as fans we want to see games I get it but we can not hide our heads in the sand ignoring the damage already done to the league and the damage a 20-21 season is going to cost. Yet many just slide along and argue about things like nothing has happened. Well the teams are sure not doing this or FA's out there would have contracts trades would have been made like most every year. You see arguments about whos owners have billions of dollars and can afford stupidity. But I assure you of this these folks did not make there money by losing millions each year, nor will they condone losing 15 to 60 million for a 45 game season. At this point the contract that was recently signed is worthless if the players association does not realize this and both sides go back to the table the NHL may well not survive this. TV money will not support 1/2 of this Cap and if history repeats and it usually does the league will be lucky if they can hold a 70 mil Cap for 22-23. The damage is already done The league, the players and the fans are still refusing to acknowledge it. This is not a government program where you can spend twice the amount you collect.

You shouldn't expect your ELC guys to be PPG players and that's good because that's not what you are trying to replace. I'm a Panthers fan, so I know a thing or two about poor drafting and inability to develop players. But bear with me for a moment because that might look tedious; 58, 1, 79, 77, 72, 208, ---, ---, 161, 101, ---, 3, 75 //// 2, 9, 14, 43, 12, ---, 8
Do you know what that is? That's the draft position for Tampa's players. You didn't win the Cup because you have three top five picks, you won the Cup because you develop players outside of round one. Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida can all attest to that.

You want to keep the team competitive longterm, right? Who will be better in 5 years, Cirelli or Johnson? It's not about a rush to youth, it's because of the Cap. Some vets will earn tons of money and because of that you need youngsters that are cheap and can play decently well enough and grow. Tampa gave a ton of NMC/NTCs because it allows to shave 500K here, 400K there and give them flexibility to depth for playoffs runs. Did you need Bogosian and what not to get to the playoffs? No, not at all. It's a much better and cheaper approach to pick up veterans at the deadline, since they are widely available.

Where did you see 18? At most I saw 10 and most often I saw that 8 owners would prefer no season. But nice of you to worry yourself with that, but it changes nothing to the discussion about keeping Cirelli or Killorn. If the Cap drops, salaries will drop.

 

[DFC]

I agree with you on Yanni I think he does return to the 20 goal level and Coleman should be a 15-15 guy Goodrow not so much 8 goals has been his career year and that is pretty typical for a 3rd line wing. Verhaghe had 9 goals so Goodrow will just be a wash and replacing Johnson with Coleman will be a wash as well. One can not help to have been pleased with the 3rd line from the playoffs. But only making up for Johnson and Killorn is just p[art of it Shattenkirk is gone and while his 8 goals was not impressive it is still a loss and even with his many Gaffs the D is going to miss him in the defensive zone. The bottom line will boil down to GF vs GA last year 243GF and 194GA the year prior 319 to 221. Theres little doubt the team will still have a + in differential but it will be more narrow and when you look at 5 on 5 last year was not as impressive 147 vs 135. We can not say that the defense will be better while it is still solid the 3rd pair is a concern especially when you can just expect Mac and Hedman to miss some games and surprisingly Cernak has not played over 70 games in either of his two seasons so Schenn and Coburn would need to play up which is not comforting.

Of course with the Cap situation we have to expect some derogation from the real domination the team has had over the last two seasons in the regular season. We can still expect wins most every night but they are not going to be as comfortable.

Shattenkirk is the bigger loss to our offense. Or at least, he's the one it's hard to imagine replacing. JBB's deadline moves last year were more about replacing killorn and Johnson than they were about a cup run.

But yeah, Shattenkirk sparked a lot of offense 5v5. I mean, we still have at least one good puck mover on each pairing, and Sergachev looks like he still has one more step to take, so it's not a HUGE concern. I mean, we just won a cup without Stamkos. So adding him to the mix takes care of most of this stuff come playoff time, which is the only time it really matters.

I don't think anyone would suggest TB isnt a playoff team without Shattenkirk, so it's all about the playoffs. And if we get a healthy Stamkos, despite his disappointments, he should counter that loss.

 

[Byrddog]

Shattenkirk is the bigger loss to our offense. Or at least, he's the one it's hard to imagine replacing. JBB's deadline moves last year were more about replacing killorn and Johnson than they were about a cup run.

But yeah, Shattenkirk sparked a lot of offense 5v5. I mean, we still have at least one good puck mover on each pairing, and Sergachev looks like he still has one more step to take, so it's not a HUGE concern. I mean, we just won a cup without Stamkos. So adding him to the mix takes care of most of this stuff come playoff time, which is the only time it really matters.

I don't think anyone would suggest TB isnt a playoff team without Shattenkirk, so it's all about the playoffs. And if we get a healthy Stamkos, despite his disappointments, he should counter that loss.

I do not disagree that the Bolts continue to be a playoff team, but the defense that put us over the top was Shattenkirk and Bogosian and the addition of Coleman and Goodrow. We have the two way forwards left but I am not convinced that the D can do the same job especially when the years man games are missed and we have to depend on Schenn and Coburn to play up. SO in my mind both sides have taken a hit when Johnson and or Killorn are moved. Yes Stamkos will add back some.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

I do not disagree that the Bolts continue to be a playoff team, but the defense that put us over the top was Shattenkirk and Bogosian and the addition of Coleman and Goodrow. We have the two way forwards left but I am not convinced that the D can do the same job especially when the years man games are missed and we have to depend on Schenn and Coburn to play up. SO in my mind both sides have taken a hit when Johnson and or Killorn are moved. Yes Stamkos will add back some.

I don't know that a #6 or #7 D-man is really going to impact our season too much... We will be losing something from losing Johnny and Killorn, no doubt, but having a healthy Stamkos back will more than make of for their missing offense. Where its going to hurt the most is on the PK, I think. Killer is leaving a good-sized void there but I am sure we'll have someone step in to make up for it.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Tampa assuming that Hedman will not deteriorate and thus Sergachev will not produce too much until then. Fair assumption, since it is usually 33 when the first signs of aging and wear start showing.

 

[DFC]

I do not disagree that the Bolts continue to be a playoff team, but the defense that put us over the top was Shattenkirk and Bogosian and the addition of Coleman and Goodrow. We have the two way forwards left but I am not convinced that the D can do the same job especially when the years man games are missed and we have to depend on Schenn and Coburn to play up. SO in my mind both sides have taken a hit when Johnson and or Killorn are moved. Yes Stamkos will add back some.

I think it had a whole lot to do with Hedman playing almost half the game too. Not to mention Cernak regained his rookie form at the right time.

Bogosian was a great add, but I don't see any of these losses being the difference between us being a cup team or not. You also have to consider we won that cup with like 60% of Anthony Cirelli.

We're in pretty good shape, really. None of the losses are massive, and we're adding Steven Stamkos. The only one that concerns me is Shattenkirk with his puck-moving, but there were obviously cons to his game too. And I don't think it's unreasonable to believe Sergachev should be able to handle that role. He pretty much did just that in the second half of last year anyway, when Shattenkirk went quiet and Sergachev went beast-mode.

Our top-4 is pretty incredible, assuming we can keep Cernak.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

I think it had a whole lot to do with Hedman playing almost half the game too. Not to mention Cernak regained his rookie form at the right time.

Bogosian was a great add, but I don't see any of these losses being the difference between us being a cup team or not. You also have to consider we won that cup with like 60% of Anthony Cirelli.

We're in pretty good shape, really. None of the losses are massive, and we're adding Steven Stamkos. The only one that concerns me is Shattenkirk with his puck-moving, but there were obviously cons to his game too. And I don't think it's unreasonable to believe Sergachev should be able to handle that role. He pretty much did just that in the second half of last year anyway, when Shattenkirk went quiet and Sergachev went beast-mode.

Our top-4 is pretty incredible, assuming we can keep Cernak.

I honestly feel that losing his offensive capabilities is pretty much canceled out by also losing his defensive liabilities... He was, at times, pretty bad defensively.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Shattenkirk wasn't much more than a depth player as the playoffs went on. Started good but Sergachev took that #3 spot during the Isles series and never looked back. That being said, the lack of experience on the blueline after losing KS, Bogo and an aging Coburn will probably force Tampa to make some depth moves again.