GDT: Tb @ wsh 12/10/13 7pm

[CapitalsCupReality]

Your pre-edit: "When did I bring up $ or whether or not he's earning his? Passion for the player blinding you? For his salary, he's been a decent starter most nights, struggles and all. Happy?"

What you said 10 minutes earlier: "Please, I have never hated a Washington Capitals player. When they're playing well and earning their $, they deserve praise. When they're not, they don't. Simple formula. When you're giving up 'on average' a softy an outing, you deserve some heat."




Dude, admit it. You're a Holtby Hater because you favor Neuvirth. In fact, you're President of the Holtby Hater Club. You never stop, and then you play the victim with the "are we not allowed to DISCUSS" angle when you don't want to discuss anything. You want to declare that Holtby sucks, and that's it. Anyone who argues with you is an "apologist" even if they're critical of his actual play from time to time.

Cue the VP of the Holtby fanclub. I like Holtby as a Cap, but that doesn't mean I choose to hide my head in the sand like his apologist do. Not sure about the rest of your made up post.


Neuvy has nothing to do with this. He's not even on the roster and has been a non-factor for several years as a starter threat IMO. You couldn't be further off in your "reasoning". Let's just get this out of the way, if it was my decision to start Holtby over Neuvy, I'd start Holtby. Now put away your Neuvy hate and throw that crutch away. It's a non-factor in your argument.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

He had a tough night but its not like he let in leaky goals or anything.

The first two shots had eyes and went thru numerous players and the 3rd was a 2 on 1. He looked off. So what? Big deal. It happens. He'll bounce back.

To me its not so much if a player has a bad shift or a bad night or even a bad stretch of games...its how they respond. Holtby's always responded well so no reason to climb all over him.

Nor did I "climb all over him". It's the small group of Holtby apoligists that always turn this into a pissing contest.

One bad word and they're up in arms, ready to defend the flowing hair...

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Calling out the goalie who got pulled after a .625 night? Simply discussing the game, if anything I let him off the hook. I mean, tell me Holtby apologists, are we not allowed to discuss a goalie getting the hook without being called a hater? By all means, continue with the absurdity.

Perfect example of your Hotlby hate. How many games in a row have you called out the 'apologists'?

He didn't see the first goal because the defenseman wouldn't lay a hand on the screener, and was hung out to dry on the second goal because Mike Green couldn't abide by a basic defensive rule. Not a goalie in the league would have stopped either. So you're essentially giving him **** for not stopping a perfect shot on the PP.

Passion for the player blinding you? For his salary, he's been a decent starter most nights, struggles and all. Happy?

Blinding me from what? His career .922 save percentage? His sweetheart contract? His excellent play the vast majority of the time? I've got some news for you: .920 isn't a decent starter, it's a very, very good starter. Like, top 10 in the league nearly every year good.

If anyone is blinded in this situation, it's you by whatever bias you've got against Holtby/goalies. You've clearly got a habit of undeservedly scapegoating him.

 

[BobRouse]

Nor did I "climb all over him". It's the small group of Holtby apoligists that always turn this into a pissing contest.

One bad word and they're up in arms, ready to defend the flowing hair...

He does have awesomely conditioned flowing hair....methinks someone is a bit jealous!

 

[Calicaps]

ESGs:

Calgary 10/3 - Faceoff play
Carolina 10/10 - High slot deflection of Oleksy point shot
Edmonton 10/14 - Slapper from high slot, feed off the right boards from 90
Winnipeg 10/22 - Backhand on Breakaway; feed from Johansson at defensive blue line
Winnipeg 10/22 - Faceoff play
Edmonton 10/24 - Faceoff play
Columbus 11/12 - Cleaned up rebound of Johansson move off wall in OT
Detroit 11/15 - Wristshot from left circle off of cycle
St. Louis 11/17 - Slapshot off the rush; nice bump set from 19 in neutral zone
St. Louis 11/17 - Backhand of rebound created by Alzner point shot
Montreal 11/22 - Deflection of Carlson point shot fed by Grabo
Toronto 11/23 - Slapper of Green lob from neutral zone
Islanders 11/30 - Snapshot from slot after cutting in from left wing in OT; drop-pass assist by Grabo
Tampa Bay 12/10 - Faceoff play
Tampa Bay 12/10 - Slapper from point with goalie pulled; Pass from Carlson

So, take away faceoff plays, the extra man goal last night, and plays where it wasn't the 90-19-9 line, and you get 7 ESGs.

I count 9.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I count 9.

OT goals aren't 90-19-8 and Grabo was with him at ES on one of those.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

He does have awesomely conditioned flowing hair....methinks someone is a bit jealous!

Of course...what guy my age wouldn't love that weave!!!???

 

[Calicaps]

OT goals aren't 90-19-8 and Grabo was with him at ES on one of those.

Oh... I see what you mean. So the salient point here is that, when playing with his usual line, Ovie has 2 non-faceoff ES goals. Sad.

 

[Manny*]

WSH-TBL (even-strength, close-score) offensive zone entries:

w/ pos.: Offensive zone entries with possession
SA w/ pos.: Shot attempts generated from entries with possession
w/o pos.: Offensive zone entries without possession
SA w/o pos.: Shot attempts generated from entries without possession
% w/ pos.: Percentage of team entries with possession
WZER: Weighted Zone Entry Rating

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Oh... I see what you mean. So the salient point here is that, when playing with his usual line, Ovie has 2 non-faceoff ES goals. Sad.

7, but it's still not a great total.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Perfect example of your Hotlby hate. How many games in a row have you called out the 'apologists'?

He didn't see the first goal because the defenseman wouldn't lay a hand on the screener, and was hung out to dry on the second goal because Mike Green couldn't abide by a basic defensive rule. Not a goalie in the league would have stopped either. So you're essentially giving him **** for not stopping a perfect shot on the PP.


Blinding me from what? His career .922 save percentage? His sweetheart contract? His excellent play the vast majority of the time? I've got some news for you: .920 isn't a decent starter, it's a very, very good starter. Like, top 10 in the league nearly every year good.

If anyone is blinded in this situation, it's you by whatever bias you've got against Holtby/goalies. You've clearly got a habit of undeservedly scapegoating him.

You call me hater, I call you apologist. Just responding at your level.

I've already said he's a decent starter. He's great when on, a real game changer. Your "vast majority of the time" comment is fluff, but whatever. You love Holtby and you're willing to overlook the softy a night issue that you used to kill Kolzig for. I got it, thanks.

33rd in GAA
11th in Wins
17th in SOs
18th in Save %
9th in Losses

 

[Calicaps]

7, but it's still not a great total.

Christ... just ignore me. I've been stupid all week. I need a vacation.

 

[Liberati0n*]

WSH-TBL (even-strength, close-score) offensive zone entries:

w/ pos.: Offensive zone entries with possession
SA w/ pos.: Shot attempts generated from entries with possession
w/o pos.: Offensive zone entries without possession
SA w/o pos.: Shot attempts generated from entries without possession
% w/ pos.: Percentage of team entries with possession
WZER: Weighted Zone Entry Rating

Thanks for posting this.

 

[g00n]

Cue the VP of the Holtby fanclub. I like Holtby as a Cap, but that doesn't mean I choose to hide my head in the sand like his apologist do. Not sure about the rest of your made up post.


Neuvy has nothing to do with this. He's not even on the roster and has been a non-factor for several years as a starter threat IMO. You couldn't be further off in your "reasoning". Let's just get this out of the way, if it was my decision to start Holtby over Neuvy, I'd start Holtby. Now put away your Neuvy hate and throw that crutch away. It's a non-factor in your argument.

I don't believe you. And I notice you're editing your posts a lot. Maybe you should cover your tracks and go back and edit this one:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=74852301&postcount=115

Not to mention you were glossing over Neuvy's 2 softies that night, and directly contradicting your words about save percentage needing to be over .900 no matter what in refernce to Holtby.

Given your double standards regarding each goaltender, and your penchant for changing your story and attacking people who "discuss" this, I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on so you can have all the crutches you want.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I don't believe you. And I notice you're editing your posts a lot. Maybe you should cover your tracks and go back and edit this one:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=74852301&postcount=115

Not to mention you were glossing over Neuvy's 2 softies that night, and directly contradicting your words about save percentage needing to be over .900 no matter what in refernce to Holtby.

Given your double standards regarding each goaltender, and your penchant for changing your story and attacking people who "discuss" this, I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on so you can have all the crutches you want.

Owned.

 

[trick9]

Anyone watching that 1st period from neutral point of view wouldn't blame Holtby for any of those goals. Yes he could have saved one of those, but you don't blame the goalie if he gets heavily screened twice by his own players.

That 3rd goal was all about terrible defending. On 2on1 situations even 10-year old kids know that the D has to take the pass away, and leave the goalie deal with the shooter. Green just doesn't even get the basics of defending right, or then he was trying to do much in effort to cover those earlier penalties. Either way that's unacceptable and Holtby had no chance to save that. To take some of the blame away from Green, Alzner really played that situation badly which lead to that 2on1 in the first place.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

You call me hater, I call you apologist. Just responding at your level.

I've already said he's a decent starter. He's great when on, a real game changer. Your "vast majority of the time" comment is fluff, but whatever. You love Holtby and you're willing to overlook the softy a night issue that you used to kill Kolzig for. I got it, thanks.

33rd in GAA
11th in Wins
17th in SOs
18th in Save %
9th in Losses

I used to kill Kolzig for? What on Earth are you talking about?

My 'vast majority of the time' comment has a hell of a lot more veracity than your 'a softy a night' comment.

GAA is a team stat, as are wins and losses. He's tied for 16th in save percentage among qualifying goalies, and tied for 10th when you take out backups. Carey Price, one of the early front runners for the Vezina has the same number of SOs. Are you ready to bash him for it?

 

[BobRouse]

I will say this...this is a universal truth...

On EVERY hockey team there is a hierarchy of blame that is consistently applied:

1. Coach/assistant Coach in charge of PP/PK - Coach is often an idiot. Why does he play player X over Y???
2. Goalie - Why do we pay this guy since he lets in softies?
3. Offensive Dman - Turnover machine! Addition by subtraction!


Go around to pretty much every message board after every game for every team and you can find this to be the case.

Easy to lay blame on these 3 categories.

 

[kmart]

I will say this...this is a universal truth...

On EVERY hockey team there is a hierarchy of blame that is consistently applied:

1. Coach/assistant Coach in charge of PP/PK - Coach is often an idiot. Why does he play player X over Y???
2. Goalie - Why do we pay this guy since he lets in softies?
3. Offensive Dman - Turnover machine! Addition by subtraction!




Go around to pretty much every message board after every game for every team and you can find this to be the case.

Easy to lay blame on these 3 categories.

nobody argues that, u want it to stop ? thats not possible, the blame game needs to be done, its in the human nature

here, because i like it

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't believe you. And I notice you're editing your posts a lot. Maybe you should cover your tracks and go back and edit this one:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=74852301&postcount=115

Not to mention you were glossing over Neuvy's 2 softies that night, and directly contradicting your words about save percentage needing to be over .900 no matter what in refernce to Holtby.

Given your double standards regarding each goaltender, and your penchant for changing your story and attacking people who "discuss" this, I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on so you can have all the crutches you want.

I always respond quickly to the absurd then edit down my comments...whatever Francis.

Neuvy isn't even worth discussing, so stick to Holtby and stop the annoyingly transparent attempt to misdirect. Neuvy hasn't been a starter threat for a long time and you won't find any posts from me suggesting he deserves more than a spot start or two over Holtby over the last few years.

Holtby's performances this year speak for themselves. I don't need to get into a pissing match over levels of mediocre to bad, or even great depending on the outing. I just find the rush to defend the obvious by a few Holtby supporters amusing at times, but mostly annoying because you like to derail the fair discussion night in and night out of our starter's performance.

 

[Langway]

Thanks for posting this.

x2

Grind-it-out Oates needs to understand that with more work put into transition and passing execution the game doesn't have to be about dump & chase all the time. That combined with lazy/poor gap control are tough obstacles to overcome when facing opponents that can sustain a higher pace.

It's partially why the top line hasn't been overly effective. Not enough of an emphasis on tempo and creating space.

 

[txpd]

I could be wrong but isn't tampa bay playing a trap? thought I heard locker refer to it several times. doesn't trap dare you to try and carry in and create turnovers for transition the other way? isn't the recommended way to beat the trap to dump the puck in deep and not turn over the puck?

changing lanes. I am loving the main board fighting over whether Ovechkin is good or not. That is just a one dimensional player now and all he can do is shoot. Maybe things aren't as bad as we thought if league wide fans cant except that Ov is working on another Hart Trophy season.....oh, yea....and now the Hart Trophy is a joke because Ov wins it.

 

[g00n]

I always respond quickly to the absurd then edit down my comments...whatever Francis.

Neuvy isn't even worth discussing, so stick to Holtby and stop the annoyingly transparent attempt to misdirect. Neuvy hasn't been a starter threat for a long time and you won't find any posts from me suggesting he deserves more than a spot start or two over Holtby over the last few years.

Holtby's performances this year speak for themselves. I don't need to get into a pissing match over levels of mediocre to bad, or even great depending on the outing. I just find the rush to defend the obvious by a few Holtby supporters amusing at times, but mostly annoying because you like to derail the fair discussion night in and night out of our starter's performance.

Ever the innocent victim.

 

[ryan519*]

has anyone else noticed that there seems to consistently be a lot of empty seats in the verizon center? what gives?

 

[Portable Mink]

I think Ovi tries to play defensive position too much in the O-zone.
Backstrom and MoJo get down low and start a cycle but Ovi makes sure hes high in the zone and backpeddling and cant support the puckcarrier.

Its Backstrom's role to ensure he covers the C breaking out, not Ovi's.

Look at the way guys like Ward, Chimera, Erat & even Wilson SUPPORT the wall play. Ovi can do that, he just needs to stay in those plays longer instead of being hovering in no-mans-land where sure, he takes up space and can help on the backcheck, but it doesnt really have any major positives.

Backstrom is so good in protecting the puck and winning board battles. Mojo is starting to play with some of Nickys skills in these situations but when the two opposing defenders are helped out by the centre and a winger, its 2 on 4 because Ovi is covering the breakout instead of playing support. To me, thats got a lot to do with their lack of extensive zone time ending in Backstrom and Mojo goals.

Oates needs to tell him to play offense when were are in the O-zone, right now hes not sure when to commit down low and when not to.