Speculation: Taylor Hall trade/contract talk (part III)

[TrufleShufle]

42 goals in 176 games doesn’t really scream plenty offensive ability to me. He had a nice rookie year centering the league MVP, he really hasn’t built upon that at all. He ended last season by not scoring in 15 straight games. He started this season by not scoring in 17 of the first 20.

Yea because he has been tasked with top lines almost from the start. But when seeing him away from that in any capacity, like the international tournament or when he wasn't asked to play defense as much in his first year, he is a different player. I don't mind him putting offense on hold for a bit until he completes his defensive game and then can unleash his offensive game at will. Bergy comes to mind in what Nico could be if used correctly over the next couple years.

 

[Devils731]

That’s absolutely absurd

You would have said it was less likely Elias becomes Elias than Nico when Elias was at the same age as Nico.

 

[TrufleShufle]

That’s absolutely absurd

Not really, has pretty close to the same number in his first 3 full years. What's absurd is how much you want it to be true that he can never be great.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

That’s absolutely absurd

It's absurd for Nico to be one of the better defensive players in the league while getting 60-70 points a year and peaking at a point per game a few times? You really lack imagination. That's an unlikely outcome, but a long way from absurd.

 

[Devils090]

Nathan MacKinnon had 75 goals in his first 300 games. What does that scream to you?

And he was getting routinely criticized for that, now he’s a top 5 player. Nico isn’t MacKinnon.

 

[TrufleShufle]

And he was getting routinely criticized for that, now he’s a top 5 player. Nico isn’t MacKinnon.

So are we not routinely criticizing Nico enough? Let me get his number, I'll turn him into Mac in a week.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

And he was getting routinely criticized for that, now he’s a top 5 player. Nico isn’t MacKinnon.

I've criticized Nico plenty this year for not living up to what I expected...But I expected a lot because he was excellent in his first two years and has room to get better.

 

[Devils090]

Basically we drafted Zajac 2.0 with our 1OA

 

[Ripshot 43]

Sweet, the Taylor Hall trade thread had turned into a bash Nico thread

 

[TrufleShufle]

Basically we drafted Zajac 2.0 with our 1OA

Twice the player? Now we can agree on something.

 

[My3Sons]

Basically we drafted Zajac 2.0 with our 1OA

I think that’s underrating Nico but I think you have to give every player on the team a pass this season. They all stink the coaching was terrible and may still be terrible and the goaltending has been inconsistent. Thats the environment you choose to do a fair evaluation? Let’s see how it plays out if the team has good coaching next year.

 

[Cheddabombs]

so how bout Hall huh

 

[Forge]

Basically we drafted Zajac 2.0 with our 1OA

I asked this same question on another board about 7 hours ago.

Nico may have a little bit higher offensive stability though

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

I wouldn't mind Newhook being part of a trade with Zadorov. We can balance things out by flipping Zacha to wing.

Boqvist - Nico - Palmieri
Coleman - Hughes - Gusev
Zacha - Newhook - Bratt
Wood - Zajac - Simmons

Zadorov - Subban
Severson - Vatanen
Greene - Butcher

 

[Emperoreddy]

I wouldn't mind Newhook being part of a trade with Zadorov. We can balance things out by flipping Zacha to wing.

Boqvist - Nico - Palmieri
Coleman - Hughes - Gusev
Zacha - Newhook - Bratt
Wood - Zajac - Simmons

Zadorov - Subban
Severson - Vatanen
Greene - Butcher

Those lines would never happen. Simmonds and possibly Wood would be traded by the time Newhook is called up.

 

[Alex NJD]

I wouldn't mind Newhook being part of a trade with Zadorov. We can balance things out by flipping Zacha to wing.

Boqvist - Nico - Palmieri
Coleman - Hughes - Gusev
Zacha - Newhook - Bratt
Wood - Zajac - Simmons

Zadorov - Subban
Severson - Vatanen
Greene - Butcher

What I like about Newhook compared to other potential pieces like Mittlestadt or Jost is that Newhook is still a year or two away giving us time to focus on developing our large crop of young guys Boqvist, Zacha, Bratt, Nico and Hughes. New coaching will already have their hands full dealing with all these youngsters. Keeps more off their hands in the short term and lets them focus on the new guy (Newhook) much more in a few years

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

If we’re dealing Hall to the Avs, I don’t want Zadorov because we can land him during the summer when Sakic will have to move him or else they’ll lose for nothing come the expansion draft.

It’s Hall with an extension for Byram or Hall as a rental for Timmins, Jost and a 1st round pick.

 

[Emperoreddy]

What I like about Newhook compared to other potential pieces like Mittlestadt or Jost is that Newhook is still a year or two away giving us time to focus on developing our large crop of young guys Boqvist, Zacha, Bratt, Nico and Hughes. New coaching will already have their hands full dealing with all these youngsters. Keeps more off their hands in the short term and lets them focus on the new guy (Newhook) much more in a few years

I like Newhook better then Jost because he is a better prospect.

Jost is nothing special.

 

[The Merchant]

Hey guys, pardon the intrusion. But as things are starting to look like they may be getting closer, would anyone mind breaking down Hall's game for me this season? Has his style of play changed at all since his last injury? I know he's not scoring much, but that insanely low shooting percentage has to level out at some point. You guys obviously know him better than anybody, so any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tretyak 20]

I can understand that this is HFBoards and that prospects are worth more then actual proven talent around here but I can’t wrap my head around why it would be so delusional to say that a signed Taylor Hall couldn’t bring back an unproven prospect that is having a subpar D+1 year.

As much as we are crapping on Hall, and I’m the first one to do that btw, he’s still an elite forward when his head is screwed on straight.

The Avs have Makar, Girard, EJ, Zadorov, Timmins, etc on the blueline and their 2nd line is missing a game breaker like Hall. Their 1st line is one of the best and they managed to do just fine with the injuries to Landeskog and Rantanen but you can’t have enough talent up front, especially when your 1st line is loaded with 3 studs.

With that said, I can’t see how Colorado would be a weaker team for their current window with Hall instead of Byram and that’s what it comes down to IMO... make your team better in the window that has your current core.

Don't post this anywhere near the main board! Av's fans seem totally convinced they have no need of Hall to win. Strikes me as fans who've gone too long without watching playoff hockey, but maybe that's just me.

Also, don't tell them Byram isn't a guarantee. But perhaps it's just Devils fans that understand that a 4th OA pick Defenseman isn't guaranteed to become elite - despite what his pre-draft scouting report says.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Hey guys, pardon the intrusion. But as things are starting to look like they may be getting closer, would anyone mind breaking down Hall's game for me this season? Has his style of play changed at all since his last injury? I know he's not scoring much, but that insanely low shooting percentage has to level out at some point. You guys obviously know him better than anybody, so any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

He definitely lost a step but I noticed his speed has been getting better over the last few games. He is still trying to get back to form after that knee surgery. He still creates a ton of chances every game, but for whatever reason he isn’t burying his chances this year. Hopefully that changes soon. Still a great player to have if he stays healthy.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Hey guys, pardon the intrusion. But as things are starting to look like they may be getting closer, would anyone mind breaking down Hall's game for me this season? Has his style of play changed at all since his last injury? I know he's not scoring much, but that insanely low shooting percentage has to level out at some point. You guys obviously know him better than anybody, so any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

He looks like pretty much the same player except he's definitely lost a step. Still plays the same game, still creating a good amount of chances but everyone's struggling this year. His goal totals would be better if he knew how to score on a breakaway. Pretty sure he hasn't done so yet this year and he might have had close to double digit breakaways already? It's actually crazy/impressive how bad he's been in that regard lol.

I also feel like he just wants out at this point and is tired of losing, so if he did end up going to the Avs it'd spark him to start playing a bit better too.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Don't post this anywhere near the main board! Av's fans seem totally convinced they have no need of Hall to win. Strikes me as fans who've gone too long without watching playoff hockey, but maybe that's just me.

Also, don't tell them Byram isn't a guarantee. But perhaps it's just Devils fans that understand that a 4th OA pick Defenseman isn't guaranteed to become elite - despite what his pre-draft scouting report says.

Their fanbase doesn’t even seem to want Hall. Definitely not for what it is inevitably going to cost.

 

[Alex NJD]

I like Newhook better then Jost because he is a better prospect.

Jost is nothing special.

You're definitely right, no way Jost would be a primary piece in a deal like Newhook.

 

[Forge]

Don't post this anywhere near the main board! Av's fans seem totally convinced they have no need of Hall to win. Strikes me as fans who've gone too long without watching playoff hockey, but maybe that's just me.

I've actually been fairly surprised by their reticence to acquire him even as a rental for rental prices. If Hall is a pure rental, his cost isn't going to be that prohibitive. A late first round pick + solid prospect and maybe roster fodder (FTR, I'm kind of including Jost in that. He may be young, but he's got career bottom sixer, journeyman written all over him). I mean, the first round pick is meh. Just looking at the last 10 years of guys picked between 20-30/31, your chances of securing something that is reasonably worth while is fairly slim. You get a lot of moving parts type guys, but not a ton of impact guys. What are the chances that pick turns into something you truly regret passing on even for half a season of Hall and a better chance to win a cup? Less than 25%? Sure, every now and again there is a Pasternak (or even a Zajac in there) that you probably wish you would have had, but are you seriously going to lament giving up Beauvillier or Olli Maatta, both of whom are JAGs, but nonetheless consistent NHLers? And then you're not likely giving up a grade A prospect, but rather a good but not great one. Same thing there.

Also, don't tell them Byram isn't a guarantee. But perhaps it's just Devils fans that understand that a 4th OA pick Defenseman isn't guaranteed to become elite - despite what his pre-draft scouting report says.

Honestly, for this, I get it. I don't think they even need to think of him as a guarantee, just the upside that comes with that kind of draft position / player projection, the team control with that kind of upside makes it a harder story to sell. That cost may actually prohibitive to them as fans because they see in BB a way to continue to the team success given his lower cost initially, especially if he comes to the NHL with guns blazing. The potential is too great there to be able to really work out in their team's favor. While this is somewhat true of all prospects, obviously the better you feel about a guy at 18 the more likely you are to believe that he is going to be that guy, and you typically feel better about a guy drafted 4 OA than you would a guy drafted 32nd overall (Timmins, for example).