Tampa Bay Season in Review: Advanced Stats Edition

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Guys and gals - there's a paper that I don't want to write now, so instead I want to look at the team's performance over the past season using these newfangled analystics, and share the findings with you. First, let's look at the team performance.

CorsiFor% 53% (good for 5th in the league)
CorsiClose: 53.8% (tied for 4th)
FenwickFor%: 53.1% (3rd in the league)
FenwickClose: 53.7% (4th in the league)

Those are some raw ones - looks pretty good so far. Let's look at a few others that reflect possession.

Offensive Zone Starts: 54.4% (fourth)
OZSClose: 55.7% (2nd)

PDO (shooting percentage plus save percentage at ES): 101.0 (Tied for sixth)
PDO Close: 99.9 (Tied for 19th)
Some good things from this. Teamwide, PDO can regress a bit (elite/awful goaltenders and elite/awful goalscorers will have an effect, so it won't always regress to 100 as some think, but it being closer to 100 does speak well to sustainability). The Close value confuses me a bit... it speaks to a non-clutchness, but it may be a couple of factors - mainly when we're behind we throw a ton of pucks at the net, which could adversely affect shot percentage. It's possible it could also reflect negatively on our goaltenders/D too.

ShotPrecentage: 9.1% (1st in the league) A lot of this probably comes from all the lines looking for the "perfect shot", but also the fact that we're just a flat out skilled team. It's high, but in line with what the highest teams have been in other seasons, so it's not absurdly high.

Scoring Chance Percentage: 53.8% (2nd in the league)
This is the most interesting stat to me. It tries to control for shot quality in a way that Corsi and Fenwick don't. It's a new stat - and it's unclear how accurate it's calculated at the moment (there may be an arena bias or something else), but I think this supports what we see day in day out - we get a lot of scoring chances.

SCF/60: 29.5 (3rd in the league)
SCA/60: 25.3 (T-12th)

High event team, but the lower Scoring Chances Against/60 is something we need to work on.

Individual players

Stralman was our possession monster on D. 56.24 CorsiFor%, with SCF of 58.44% (shockingly, our second best D for that was Slater Koekkoek). He started 54.33% of his shifts in the offensive zone - but keep in mind that's on a team that starts over 55% in the Ozone. He's been a monster.

Forwards, of course TKO was our monsters. They generally get favorable zone starts (Kucherov at 59, Palat at 56, and Johnson at 55). Palat and Kucherov each have around 56% CorsiFor, with Johnson a slight bit behind at 54.9.

Their real strength? Scoring Chances. Palat leads the way with 59.15% SCF (versus 51.46 off), with Kucherov at 58.07 and Johnson at 56.73% (52 and 52.77 off respectively). Compare to Stamkos, who had a 53% on, and 54.4 off, or Callahan who had 53.5 on and 53.8 off. These guys carried the play.

Also, re: Jason Garrison. He's the other guy who has been a rock all year for us on the back end. His SCF% is 52.37, and his CorsiFor is 52.59. Very good numbers, but around middle of the road for the team. His zone start is 52% offensive, so he's used a bit more defensively than Stralman, although I don't know if the numbers show much of a preference or if it's more of a result of playing less with Hedman versus other guys.

This is far from an exhaustive collection/analysis, but rather just a few points on the subject to discuss. Most of it supports the eye test, although I think Garrison might get the short end of the stick relative to his importance.
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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Yeah, pretty much in line with the eye test.

On shooting percentage, I think we're always going to be pretty high. We have three guys who shouldn't have any probably shooting around or above 14% for the majority of their careers, and Stamkos actually had an off-year in shooting percentage at 16-ish. These are also the three guys (Stamkos, Johnson, Kucherov) who are likely to lead our team in shots for the foreseeable future.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Yeah, pretty much in line with the eye test.

On shooting percentage, I think we're always going to be pretty high. We have three guys who shouldn't have any probably shooting around or above 14% for the majority of their careers, and Stamkos actually had an off-year in shooting percentage at 16-ish. These are also the three guys (Stamkos, Johnson, Kucherov) who are likely to lead our team in shots for the foreseeable future.

It also speaks to how we don't shoot from the blueline often. Anton Stralman is our highest volume shooter from the D with 138 shots, and Hedman right behind, but that's not normal. The Kings, for example, has Doughty with over 200 as their highest volume shooter, and Muzzin having over 170.
 

Werewolf

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Oct 29, 2013
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It also speaks to how we don't shoot from the blueline often. Anton Stralman is our highest volume shooter from the D with 138 shots, and Hedman right behind, but that's not normal. The Kings, for example, has Doughty with over 200 as their highest volume shooter, and Muzzin having over 170.

That stat is best in a /60 basis...Doughty and Muzzin (Doughty #1 in TOI and Muzzin in top 40) log much heavier minutes than Hedman/Stralman (neither are top 40 in TOI).
 

The Macho King

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Jun 22, 2011
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That stat is best in a /60 basis...Doughty and Muzzin (Doughty #1 in TOI and Muzzin in top 40) log much heavier minutes than Hedman/Stralman (neither are top 40 in TOI).

Yeah, just pulled out two players from a high shot number team - so not indicative of the league overall. Stralman is 33rd in the league in SoG though (tied with Phaneuf) from Dmen. That's our highest - so clearly we don't get enough shots through.
 

Rubi11

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Apr 30, 2014
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Where did you get the scoring chance percentage stat from? I'm curious to see what the rest of the league looks like
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Where did you get the scoring chance percentage stat from? I'm curious to see what the rest of the league looks like

War-on-ice.

Edit: Palat is 2nd in the league for those over 500 minutes played. Kucherov and Stralman are both really high league-wide as well.
 

Houdas

Mining the Lightning
Aug 17, 2014
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I've also managed to find one thing that amazed me

Players who played at least 300 minutes at 5v5 with the highest Sv% while on ice

1. Jason Garrison - 93,64
2. Dump truck - 93,55
3. Matt Carle - 93,10
4. Ondřej Palát - 92,65
5. Andrej Šustr - 92,58 (yeah, no ****)
...
16. Brian Boyle - 91,69
...
21. Anton Strålman - 90,68
22. Victor Hedman - 90,51

Source: link
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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I've also managed to find one thing that amazed me

Players who played at least 300 minutes at 5v5 with the highest Sv% while on ice

1. Jason Garrison - 93,64
2. Dump truck - 93,55
3. Matt Carle - 93,10
4. Ondřej Palát - 92,65
5. Andrej Å ustr - 92,58 (yeah, no ****)
...
16. Brian Boyle - 91,69
...
21. Anton Strålman - 90,68
22. Victor Hedman - 90,51

Source: link

That's REALLY interesting. I do think players play some role in save percentage of the goaltender (correlated with allowing scoring chances), but would not have expected Hedman and Stralman to be at the bottom.
 

The Macho King

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Jun 22, 2011
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Comrade I tell you what... I've never been and never will be a big fan of advanced stats

They are what they are: stats. Those that treat **** like Corsi or PDO as gospel and perfectly predictive of future success shouldn't lower the efficacy of the stats themselves - it's no different from those that use +/- as a good indicator of defensive ability.

And really - looking at the stats, we can see that things like SCF% and Corsi% line up perfectly with the eye test. TKO and Stralman drive possession and create chances. When the stats clearly go against the eye test - see, e.g. Purcell's high possession stats - you can realize that they're not perfect indicators, but that doesn't mean they're not a useful tool in analysis.
 

geoo9

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Mar 15, 2013
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They are what they are: stats. Those that treat **** like Corsi or PDO as gospel and perfectly predictive of future success shouldn't lower the efficacy of the stats themselves - it's no different from those that use +/- as a good indicator of defensive ability.

And really - looking at the stats, we can see that things like SCF% and Corsi% line up perfectly with the eye test. TKO and Stralman drive possession and create chances. When the stats clearly go against the eye test - see, e.g. Purcell's high possession stats - you can realize that they're not perfect indicators, but that doesn't mean they're not a useful tool in analysis.

Have you ranks of points per icetime of league point leaders (point/minute of icetime for example). i think Kuch will be at top 5 at that parametr
 

Houdas

Mining the Lightning
Aug 17, 2014
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Prague/Ostrava
It makes sense actually, but you just need to know how to read them and how to use them.

There were rangers guys nearly a year ago telling us that Stralman was the type of player that sometimes makes a huge mistake like a completely bad pass causing turnover.

There also were some guys on this board that spotted the same thing during his premiere year in tampa.

Taking his overwhelming CF%, great +/- and bad Sv% this makes sense - he has some bad goals that we can't really see because we all love him. There aren't a lot of shots at bish or vasay when stralman is here, but when there is one, it can be a more dangerous shot.
 

geoo9

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Mar 15, 2013
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Overall points/60:
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-points-per-60-min-leaders/2014/

Johnson 3rd, Kucherov 11th, Palat 18th.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ters&minutes=300&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Even Strength points/60

Johnson 1st, Palat 2nd, Kucherov 8th.


Points Per 60 Min
Rank Player Pos Team TOI Points Points Per 60 Min

10...Patrick Kane RW CHI 1,210 64 3.17
11 Nikita Kucherov RW TB 1,225 64 3.13
So not that bad i think)

Thanks!
 
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Kramerica Industries

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Mar 21, 2013
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Tampa, FL
When it comes to Corsi and Fenwick, I prefer to use the team-wide versions of those stats rather than the individual player versions of them. When it comes to the individual players, relative stats and /60 stats are a lot more contextualized than broad stats are. For that matter, I'm much more of a Fenwick person than I am a Corsi person, too; I think there is a skill to shot blocking that is repeatable and I'm willing to give teams like Calgary, who are elite at shot blocking, a little more credit for that. When I'm tracking, I'll account for blocked shots as well, but I only need shots on goal and shot attempts when looking at /60 stats (such as PP and PK ineffectiveness on this team).
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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Considering Stralman put up almost 40 points this year, combined with yet another monster advanced stats year, it's hard not to call Stralman a legit #2, and he's got to be somewhere around the border of a #1. He had a bit of a bad stretch, but, over all, he took a huge step forward this year. With how young our team is, maybe it's a bit easy to forget that 27 is still pretty young for a defenseman, and, especially when you consider what a major change his game underwent a few years back, he very well might still be in the developing stage. He could be an absolute gem by the time he's 30. And then when you consider his cerebral, not-overly physical game, combined with his footspeed, he has all the signs of a defenseman who's going to have a very long prime.

Sometimes it's hard to believe how easily we picked him up.
 

Vasilevskiy

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They are what they are: stats. Those that treat **** like Corsi or PDO as gospel and perfectly predictive of future success shouldn't lower the efficacy of the stats themselves - it's no different from those that use +/- as a good indicator of defensive ability.

And really - looking at the stats, we can see that things like SCF% and Corsi% line up perfectly with the eye test. TKO and Stralman drive possession and create chances. When the stats clearly go against the eye test - see, e.g. Purcell's high possession stats - you can realize that they're not perfect indicators, but that doesn't mean they're not a useful tool in analysis.

It's good to see that these stats mostly coincide with my opinion of the team... It's just that on the main board some people use the advanced stats too much
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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When it comes to Corsi and Fenwick, I prefer to use the team-wide versions of those stats rather than the individual player versions of them. When it comes to the individual players, relative stats and /60 stats are a lot more contextualized than broad stats are. For that matter, I'm much more of a Fenwick person than I am a Corsi person, too; I think there is a skill to shot blocking that is repeatable and I'm willing to give teams like Calgary, who are elite at shot blocking, a little more credit for that. When I'm tracking, I'll account for blocked shots as well, but I only need shots on goal and shot attempts when looking at /60 stats (such as PP and PK ineffectiveness on this team).

I prefer Fenwick as well - generally they're pretty close though.
 

geoo9

Registered User
Mar 15, 2013
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rusland
Overall points/60:
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-points-per-60-min-leaders/2014/

Johnson 3rd, Kucherov 11th, Palat 18th.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ters&minutes=300&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Even Strength points/60

Johnson 1st, Palat 2nd, Kucherov 8th.

considering Kuch oficially have 65 points his Points Per 60 Min = 3,183 -So he is 10th in league at points/60 in his first full NHL season/ That is above than P.Kane that must impress )

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...0&type=individual&sort=ipoints60&sortdir=DESC amazing source for analize
T.J is First in League at 5 on 5 in point/60 rate 2nd Palat and 7th Kuch (despiting TKO have less PP time i think This is important info beaut of TKO (those stats are for plyers who plays above than 750 min)
 
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The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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considering Kuch oficially have 65 points his Points Per 60 Min = 3,183 -So he is 9th in league at points/60 in his first full NHL season

Yeah - it's close so if they change that goal it'd improve. Still impressive no matter what.
 

Lord Stan 2020

Elite fan
Jun 29, 2013
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i use advanced stats differently then corsi or fenwick

i use the advanced stats with strenght of line mates strength of opponents pk pp time and shots on goal per toi with focusing on zone starts to determine how good these guys are at puck possession overall

i have no explanation why this all matters to me and if could make any sense to another human being but think some stats dont help to see big picture as others do

like palats stats and he doesnt carry puck like flipper etc.. is just an overall production window and is my own scenario which somehow makes a little sense to me even though not a lot haha

i stated doing this with detroit and datsyuk line like 4 years ago cause cleary and abdelkader's stats overall were among the most unproductive in nhl hahaha



funny thing never looked deep stats on triplets the eye test is enough they have it haha what you want:)

scary to think our additions next year are maybe tony d slater erne marshmallow lol talk about more offense
 

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