Tampa Bay Rays Exploring Splitting Season Between Tampa and Montreal

[Centrum Hockey]

I think this could end quickly.

The Rays tell the city we are leaving in 2017 unless you come up with a stadium plan NOW and then say we are willing to negotiate a buyout of the lease.

The city has hinted that the Rays could get out of the lease if they helped pay to demolish the Trop and make it suitable for development. In theory, it might cost the city more to enforce the lease.

Montreal IF they start construction on a stadium might be able to convince MLB to let the team play at the Big Owe until the new park is ready.

There is very little major corporate support in the Tampa Bay area.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...a-bay-area-companies-land-on-fortune-500.html

Do you think the jays will seek anything from the league if the rays go to Montreal.

 

[Fenway]

Do you think the jays will seek anything from the league if the rays go to Montreal.

Rogers has to be careful as they can't afford a major PR backlash.

A team in Montreal would most likely align with Bell Media (RDS,TSN) and most likely the Jays will allow Expos 2.0 to televise in Ontario as long as they can continue to show games in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

This whole thing seems strange. I mean, they would play in Olympic Stadium??? I'm actually shocked it still exists; I always wondered how the weird retractable roof worked, even though it was permanently closed most of its existence. That place is worse than the Trop FFS!

I always hated watching the Mets play the Expos in that place, because it just had a strange vibe to it. Maybe it was the poor lighting, the lack of fans--idk

As for the Devil Rays, well, it doesn't seem like anyone has ever given a **** about that team. They were a joke from their inception in 98', up until ~2008. Ten years of losing to start a franchise didn't help them establish a fanbase, but the lack of interest in MLB in Florida obviously doesn't help matters either.

Not purely BoH but in the video below a demonstration of the roof being lowered starts around 10:50

 

[LeHab]

This whole thing seems strange. I mean, they would play in Olympic Stadium??? I'm actually shocked it still exists;

This "permanent" plan calls for two new small stadiums in each city. Because of how games would be scheduled both would be open roof which will considerably reduce costs. Furthermore since sharing will technically not be a relocation I wonder if there would be any relocation-like fees. If not that is another major saving (for Montreal at least).

As for the Olympic Stadium it can't be simply imploded like most buildings since there is a subway running underneath. Several years ago a study was conducted on how much demolishing would cost. Estimated number was around $700m CAD since you have to take it apart piece by piece. Not far from building a small open roof stadium?
For now each year there is a $20m deficit filled by taxpayers to operate this infrastructure. Major renovations are expected to replace current roof + additional modernization required to host a couple WC 2026 games for around $300-400m. Otherwise there is little going on there, an event on occasion plus companies renting officies. A gift that keeps on giving...

 

[Fenway]

This "permanent" plan calls for two new small stadiums in each city. Because of how games would be scheduled both would be open roof which will considerably reduce costs. Furthermore since sharing will technically not be a relocation I wonder if there would be any relocation-like fees. If not that is another major saving (for Montreal at least).

As for the Olympic Stadium it can't be simply imploded like most buildings since there is a subway running underneath. Several years ago a study was conducted on how much demolishing would cost. Estimated number was around $700m CAD since you have to take it apart piece by piece. Not far from building a small open roof stadium?
For now each year there is a $20m deficit filled by taxpayers to operate this infrastructure. Major renovations are expected to replace current roof + additional modernization required to host a couple WC 2026 games for around $300-400m. Otherwise there is little going on there, an event on occasion plus companies renting officies. A gift that keeps on giving...

Most bizarre stadium I have ever been to. 95% of fans entered by either the Metro or the garage and I recall driving past the stadium when a game was being played and you had no idea anything was going on inside.

This was written in 1970 but it explains how the Olympics came to Montreal

RUN IT UP THE FLAGPOLE, JOHNNY

and in 1968 how the Expos came to be

A HOME WITH NO DOME

 

[Burke the Legend]

Rogers has to be careful as they can't afford a major PR backlash.

A team in Montreal would most likely align with Bell Media (RDS,TSN) and most likely the Jays will allow Expos 2.0 to televise in Ontario as long as they can continue to show games in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

The Jays have a big fanbase out west too, so they would have a lot more to lose than Montreal in any disruption over the current setup where all Jays games are considered "national broadcasts". As you mentioned, any attempt to retain that current national setup for them, but limit Montreal to regional territory would provoke a fight with Bell, and likely would not end well for Rogers.

 

[gstommylee]

Honestly i find this stupid. Either stall in tampa bay all season or relocate to montreal not a split season...

 

[Fenway]

Honestly i find this stupid. Either stall in tampa bay all season or relocate to montreal not a split season...

The Rays owner made it clear the franchise is NOT VIABLE playing 81 games in St. Petersburg - he has not said the same about Montreal.

Montreal is close to a stadium plan that requires no city money but they are asking for help with infrastructure.

St Petersburg can play chicken but they can not afford to let the Rays walk away in 2027 without the team contributing to the demolition of the Trop as that could wind up costing the city more in the long run. The lease was top loaded so the city would get the bulk of the money back for building the stadium in the first 20 years of the contract.

Five questions we have about the Tampa Bay-Montreal...

Why do the Rays want to do this?

The Rays consistently rank at the bottom of MLB’s pile in team revenue. The Tampa Bay region lacks the mega-sized corporate sponsors prevalent in larger markets. Fewer people live within a 30-minute drive of Tropicana Field than they do relative to any other major-league stadium. And the region itself is not that large, if we consider St. Petersburg and Tampa to be its main drivers, and Orlando to be a separate market.Looping in 4 million residents, plus the corporate presence that dwells in the greater Montreal area, would create a merged market that could start to flirt with the midpoint of major-league markets in terms of economic strength, and shoot past it for sheer population base.

Most intriguing from a revenue standpoint would be the possibility of landing more than one local television deal. The Rays have drawn competitive television audiences for much of the past decade-plus since their first playoff appearance in 2008, an outcome that’s helped mitigate the effect of dead-last (or nearly dead-last) attendance most seasons. Add Montreal to the mix and you add another local TV deal in English, another in French, and possibly a national deal in Canada, one that would make all kinds of sense if Bell, a telecommunications and cable giant and chief rival to Blue Jays owners Rogers, were to partner with the team and challenge Toronto’s stranglehold on the national baseball consciousness.

Beyond the particulars of Tampa Bay or Montreal as baseball markets, it’s worth considering the merits of such a plan on a broader level. “We are simply not well-suited for a Major League Baseball team that needs to draw tens of thousands of people to each of its 81 games at its ballpark,” Sternberg said at his Tuesday presser. Residents of Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Miami and other cities could make similar claims.

 

[Jumptheshark]

MLBPA may toss a spanner into the idea

 

[gstommylee]

The Rays owner made it clear the franchise is NOT VIABLE playing 81 games in St. Petersburg - he has not said the same about Montreal.

Montreal is close to a stadium plan that requires no city money but they are asking for help with infrastructure.

St Petersburg can play chicken but they can not afford to let the Rays walk away in 2027 without the team contributing to the demolition of the Trop as that could wind up costing the city more in the long run. The lease was top loaded so the city would get the bulk of the money back for building the stadium in the first 20 years of the contract.

Five questions we have about the Tampa Bay-Montreal...

Why do the Rays want to do this?

The Rays consistently rank at the bottom of MLB’s pile in team revenue. The Tampa Bay region lacks the mega-sized corporate sponsors prevalent in larger markets. Fewer people live within a 30-minute drive of Tropicana Field than they do relative to any other major-league stadium. And the region itself is not that large, if we consider St. Petersburg and Tampa to be its main drivers, and Orlando to be a separate market.Looping in 4 million residents, plus the corporate presence that dwells in the greater Montreal area, would create a merged market that could start to flirt with the midpoint of major-league markets in terms of economic strength, and shoot past it for sheer population base.

Most intriguing from a revenue standpoint would be the possibility of landing more than one local television deal. The Rays have drawn competitive television audiences for much of the past decade-plus since their first playoff appearance in 2008, an outcome that’s helped mitigate the effect of dead-last (or nearly dead-last) attendance most seasons. Add Montreal to the mix and you add another local TV deal in English, another in French, and possibly a national deal in Canada, one that would make all kinds of sense if Bell, a telecommunications and cable giant and chief rival to Blue Jays owners Rogers, were to partner with the team and challenge Toronto’s stranglehold on the national baseball consciousness.

Beyond the particulars of Tampa Bay or Montreal as baseball markets, it’s worth considering the merits of such a plan on a broader level. “We are simply not well-suited for a Major League Baseball team that needs to draw tens of thousands of people to each of its 81 games at its ballpark,” Sternberg said at his Tuesday presser. Residents of Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Miami and other cities could make similar claims.

In that case then file for relocation and move outright to montreal when they can.

 

[KevFu]

It's totally viable to play 81 games in TAMPA. But not in St. Petersburg.


Ultimately, I think Montreal gets an expansion team. MLB wants 32. They just can't get there until the Rays stadium issue is sorted out.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

It's totally viable to play 81 games in TAMPA. But not in St. Petersburg.


Ultimately, I think Montreal gets an expansion team. MLB wants 32. They just can't get there until the Rays stadium issue is sorted out.

It’s in Montreal’s best interest to be placed into the al east so they can have rivalry’s with Boston and Toronto like the habs do.

 

[Melrose Munch]

It’s in Montreal’s best interest to be placed into the al east so they can have rivalry’s with Boston and Toronto like the habs do.

Canada should have one AL and one NL team. It will be easier to make the playoffs in the NL east. @KevFu thoughts?

 

[gstommylee]

Canada should have one AL and one NL team. It will be easier to make the playoffs in the NL east. @KevFu thoughts?

That only happens if one NL team agrees to move to AL east in a swap.

philly, mets, washington, Atlanta, Maimi. so who would be willing to be stuck unable to make the playoffs due to Boston and the Yankees.

 

[KevFu]

That only happens if one NL team agrees to move to AL east in a swap.

philly, mets, washington, Atlanta, Maimi. so who would be willing to be stuck unable to make the playoffs due to Boston and the Yankees.

MLB wants to go to 32 and realign for scheduling ease. Their 30-team, 6x5 format requires a SEVEN LAYER schedule matrix.

One proposal has them going 8x4 and reducing that to a two-layer model (Division, Everyone else). I personally hate that model and have two better ideas. But all of them are problematic and my best idea could easily be regarded as "crazy" despite its brilliance.

 

[HisIceness]

Stupid idea is stupid.

 

[MNNumbers]

MLB wants to go to 32 and realign for scheduling ease. Their 30-team, 6x5 format requires a SEVEN LAYER schedule matrix.

One proposal has them going 8x4 and reducing that to a two-layer model (Division, Everyone else). I personally hate that model and have two better ideas. But all of them are problematic and my best idea could easily be regarded as "crazy" despite its brilliance.

Quickly, as I think while I type.
4*8.
In division...12*7=84
In league...6*8=48
Other league...3*8=24
Leaves 2 3-game series interleague available for rivals.

Playoffs... Top 2 in each div qualify, plus 2 wild cards.
First round would be the 2nd place finishers vs the WCs.

 

[Melrose Munch]

MLB wants to go to 32 and realign for scheduling ease. Their 30-team, 6x5 format requires a SEVEN LAYER schedule matrix.

One proposal has them going 8x4 and reducing that to a two-layer model (Division, Everyone else). I personally hate that model and have two better ideas. But all of them are problematic and my best idea could easily be regarded as "crazy" despite its brilliance.

Or just get rid of the american and national leagues and go east west. Toronto should be in a divison with cleveland, detroit and chicago anyway.

 

[gstommylee]

Or just get rid of the american and national leagues and go east west. Toronto should be in a divison with cleveland, detroit and chicago anyway.

MLB would never get rid of AL and NL. Just like NFL would never get rid of AFC and NFC.

 

[Melrose Munch]

MLB would never get rid of AL and NL. Just like NFL would never get rid of AFC and NFC.

`The NHL effectively did and they are older then football. Never say never.

 

[gstommylee]

`The NHL effectively did and they are older then football. Never say never.

Was NHL orignally two different leagues? No. Both NFL and MLB were original two separate leagues and at some pointed merged into one together. The most I can see MLB doing is a NFL like alignment.

Your asking 30 owners to dramatically change how the league alignment wise and i doubt you'll get any agreement on something like that.

 

[rkhum]

As somebody who would like to see Montreal have a baseball team again, is this a good sign they are 'next' in line whenever a relocation or expansion happens?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Was NHL orignally two different leagues? No. Both NFL and MLB were original two separate leagues and at some pointed merged into one together. The most I can see MLB doing is a NFL like alignment.

Your asking 30 owners to dramatically change how the league looks and i doubt you'll get any agreement on something like that.

Only way to introduce a universal DH.

 

[gstommylee]

Only way to introduce a universal DH.

They are already talking about doing that right now I believe and you don't need to get rid of AL and NL to do that.

8 division of 4 is a better bet. Geographically the league is align to where something like that would work. Just add Portland to AL west move Houston and taxes to AL South. Move Colorado to NL North etc. If Tampa eventually moves to Montreal (don't see the sharing working long term) then who is gonna be team #32 if Portland is team #31.

 

[KevFu]

Quickly, as I think while I type.
4*8.
In division...12*7=84
In league...6*8=48
Other league...3*8=24
Leaves 2 3-game series interleague available for rivals.

Playoffs... Top 2 in each div qualify, plus 2 wild cards.
First round would be the 2nd place finishers vs the WCs.

I have a massive document, but the cliff notes are:

Four Divisions of Four in NL and AL - 4-4-4-4 is hard to divide properly. Playoff format a mess (4 division winners per league. No wildcards seems unfair. One-game Wild Card vs Division champ is unfair. Byes are crazy in baseball. 16-team playoffs with four full ROUNDS also crazy).

Two Divisions of Eight in NL and AL - Better playoffs (2nd vs 3rd in each division play a Wild Card game; doubles WC games from 2 to 4; then LDS, LCS, WS like now).
HOWEVER: Doubles the amount of times the CTZ teams play at PTZ/MTZ (whole reason MLB split into six divisions in the first place), which is bad for their TV deals.


Radical Geographic Realignment
NL West (All PTZ/MTZ teams), NL Central (all CTZ teams), AL North (NYC and up), AL South (ETZ from PIT/PHI and down). Better Playoffs. HOWEVER Totally destroys AL/NL history dating back to 1901; and still 50% increase in CTZ at PTZ games in unbalanced league schedule.

To combat that, the proposal was 156 games with 12 vs Division, 3 vs everyone else (12 teams home, 12 teams away). Which is really a “Four League” plan, but with only two league names because AL/NL is “important enough to not add two league names, but not important enough to preserve the separation that’s existed the entire history of the sport” (!???!?!)


Main argument was “to reduce travel.” But that’s a lie: Instead of ONE Away vs 10 non-division teams + 2 road interleague; it’s home OR away with 24 other teams (aka, still 12).

It actually INCREASES the number of CTZ/ETZ road series at MTZ/PTZ teams (despite reducing the schedule by 6 games!)
AND they’d play the same number of total series (54) as now, which means the same amount of flights for each team, just some are shorter flights that before.


The unspoken real reason is: “More tickets sales by playing rivals more!” Which ALSO really isn’t true.
Current: 76 games vs 4 division rivals, 4 to 10 interleague rivals (86 games).
Plan: 12 vs your division (84 games).
Interleague “rivals” are accidental: CLE gets bonus CIN/PIT non-division rivalry games; but they'd have to form rivalries with TOR, MON, NYM.

Or just get rid of the american and national leagues and go east west. Toronto should be in a divison with cleveland, detroit and chicago anyway.

If they did radically realign, Toronto would not be in the same division with the White Sox.