Proposal: Tampa and Ducks Trade...

[liquiduck]

Remember when leafs fans wanted no part of Andersen, but were willing to sacrifice their left nut to get Gibson because they'd be able to bake him into a apple pie...errr I mean long term contract?

Good times.

Oh well, I'm just happy to have gotten our late 2nd round pick for Freddy. Sshhwooo

 

[HoseEmDown]

There's a fair bit wrong here....

First of all, the idea of a top 6 LW being the Ducks weakness is outdated. We're perfectly fine with Rakell, Cogliano and Ritchie manning the left side in our top 9. Rakell can also shift to RW if needed, meaning the Ducks can simply target the best fit available.

"Jones is there because you are trading from a position of strength, for a weakness..."- this part makes no sense at all. Obviously the point of any trade is to improve and balance one's team, that doesn't mean the Ducks need to kick in extra value.

So putting that nonsense aside, the Ducks are moving Jones in order to upgrade rental goalies. That part doesn't work whatsoever. We can't afford to keep Bishop (contract or expansion), and our GM doesn't move his top young pieces for short term gain. Anaheim is one of the last teams in which you should be considering when trying to figure out where Bishop is going, it's not any sort of fit whatsoever.

Palat is better than Cogliano and Ritchie, put him with Kesler and you have the best shutdown line in the league. You also are going to have to make a decision between Vatanen and Manson for expansion so this solves that. With that and Bernier being much better than Bishop there needs to be something worth it for Tampa. Since you don't trade 1st's thought a top prospect would be a better add.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Palat is better than Cogliano and Ritchie, put him with Kesler and you have the best shutdown line in the league. You also are going to have to make a decision between Vatanen and Manson for expansion so this solves that. With that and Bernier being much better than Bishop there needs to be something worth it for Tampa. Since you don't trade 1st's thought a top prospect would be a better add.

Cogliano - Kesler - Silfverberg already is one of the best two way lines in the league. They fit together like a glove and are our most effective line on a nightly basis - zero desire to break that unit up at all.

How many times do I need to repeat the Bishop isn't someone the Ducks are going to target? Our GM does not pay for rental players, period. Year after year he publicly announces that he will not move his top young pieces in exchange for short term gain. Jones is more valuable than the Ducks 1st round pick so your stance on this really makes zero sense.

Once again, Palat for Vatanen is somewhat interesting, but the rest of it makes zero sense. You came up with an idea, and someone who actually follows the team has explained to you why it doesn't work. I don't know how many different ways I need to say it.

 

[HockeyShack]

Cogliano - Kesler - Silfverberg already is one of the best two way lines in the league. They fit together like a glove and are our most effective line on a nightly basis - zero desire to break that unit up at all.

How many times do I need to repeat the Bishop isn't someone the Ducks are going to target? Our GM does not pay for rental players, period. Year after year he publicly announces that he will not move his top young pieces in exchange for short term gain. Jones is more valuable than the Ducks 1st round pick so your stance on this really makes zero sense.

Once again, Palat for Vatanen is somewhat interesting, but the rest of it makes zero sense. You came up with an idea, and someone who actually follows the team has explained to you why it doesn't work. I don't know how many different ways I need to say it.

Maybe it's time he try? They haven't won anything with Bargin Bob except game 7 exits before the Cup round.

Gibson is not great, and the Ducks need an upgrade in goal.

It's Tampa or Pittsburgh who has a extra tender that is good and both can't protect them. So why not trade a 2nd/1st + prospect + for a goalie.

Ducks are not going far in the playoffs with the goalies they currently have. Both are good for backup duty. Gibson I think had the ability to be a great goalie but I think injuries will be the end of him.

 

[liquiduck]

I don't see why Anaheim would have any interest at all in Bishop. Anaheim doesn't do rentals, I don't expect them to start now.

 

[mightyquack]

I don't see why Anaheim would have any interest at all in Bishop. Anaheim doesn't do rentals, I don't expect them to start now.

To be fair, they traded for 2 rentals last season. I'd fully expect them to go after a rental or two closer to the trade deadline assuming we're around the playoff picture, but obviously not for a goalie.

 

[These Are The Days]

I only do this if it's a sign and trade for Bishop. Otherwise this is just wasting the Ducks time.

In the event of such a sign and trade any of Fowler, Despres, Vatanen and draft picks coming back would be ideal

 

[liquiduck]

To be fair, they traded for 2 rentals last season. I'd fully expect them to go after a rental or two closer to the trade deadline assuming we're around the playoff picture, but obviously not for a goalie.

Low cost rentals. That's not what's being discussed here.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

To be fair, they traded for 2 rentals last season. I'd fully expect them to go after a rental or two closer to the trade deadline assuming we're around the playoff picture, but obviously not for a goalie.

Yeah and I'd totally expect him to add a middle six winger rental again this year. But the type that we could acquire for B prices and maybe afford to sign. Certainly not a goalie who we can't afford to extend or even retain for expansion.

If Bob Murray suddenly shifts his philosophy on paying for top rentals, does anyone really think his target will be a goalie who has a zero percent chance of remaining with the team past this season? Not happening, terrible asset management.

 

[Sojourn]

Bishop isn't a realistic target for Anaheim. I'd absolutely love more stability in net, but Anaheim can't afford to add him at the moment, and it makes zero sense to give up good long-term assets for a goaltender who will walk at the end of the season. There is no trade to be had here.

 

[mightyquack]

Low cost rentals. That's not what's being discussed here.

That's fair enough, but there's a fair bit of difference between that and Anaheim not doing rentals.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I only do this if it's a sign and trade for Bishop. Otherwise this is just wasting the Ducks time.

In the event of such a sign and trade any of Fowler, Despres, Vatanen and draft picks coming back would be ideal

Not sure why you'd want Despres unless you just want the LITR relief

 

[liquiduck]

That's fair enough, but there's a fair bit of difference between that and Anaheim not doing rentals.

When people talk about teams and the rental market they are typically talking about giving up good assets for said rentals.

Nobody complains about giving up say, a 3rd round pick for MgGinn, or a 6th for Pirri.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

This whole thread has gone off the rails because the OP who is not a Ducks fan decided to pretend he knew what was best for the Ducks, and everybody else just assumed he was a Ducks fan.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Cogliano - Kesler - Silfverberg already is one of the best two way lines in the league. They fit together like a glove and are our most effective line on a nightly basis - zero desire to break that unit up at all.

How many times do I need to repeat the Bishop isn't someone the Ducks are going to target? Our GM does not pay for rental players, period. Year after year he publicly announces that he will not move his top young pieces in exchange for short term gain. Jones is more valuable than the Ducks 1st round pick so your stance on this really makes zero sense.

Once again, Palat for Vatanen is somewhat interesting, but the rest of it makes zero sense. You came up with an idea, and someone who actually follows the team has explained to you why it doesn't work. I don't know how many different ways I need to say it.

Again this isn't just about Bishop to Anaheim, the main pieces are Palat and Vatanen which you like the idea of. I wouldn't do them straight up because of the expansion draft. Trading Vatanen helps you as you can now protect Manson, it hurts us as we will have to expose Koekkoek. So for that I'd want a + coming with Vatanen, not sure what that is though.

If these teams are talking trade and fans are saying they want to see Anaheim upgrade their goalie than a goalie swap might be mentioned as well. Both Bishop and Bernier are UFA at the end of the year so it's not targeting a rental, it's upgrading someone who'll walk at the end of the year just like Bernier would. With Bishop being better there has to be a + to Bernier.

So that's why I asked for a top prospect because of the pluses needed from Anaheim. Since you won't move a 1st not sure what would be close to value. Figured a recent pick in the same pick range would do it. Montour would be of interest but if we're getting Vatanen not as much. Don't need a LD so Larsson isn't of much interest, that's why Jones seems the best bet. Thought DeBrincat since we have Raddysh but thought he might be higher valued than Jones even though he was drafted after him.

 

[pucku33]

With Bishop being better there has to be a + to Bernier.

Bernier: 6-2-1 2.90 .901% $4.15m
Bishop: 9-10-2 2.82 .906% $5.95m

What exactly makes Bishop worth a top prospect to "upgrade" pretty close stats, while taking on a higher cap?

Ducks seem to be pretty set in net, although they could use a top-6 or two. I'd like to see them move out Theodore/Larsson+2nd+dump for a couple top-6 guys at the deadline from a struggling team.

 

[DFC]

Bernier: 6-2-1 2.90 .901% $4.15m
Bishop: 9-10-2 2.82 .906% $5.95m

What exactly makes Bishop worth a top prospect to "upgrade" pretty close stats, while taking on a higher cap?

Ducks seem to be pretty set in net, although they could use a top-6 or two. I'd like to see them move out Theodore/Larsson+2nd+dump for a couple top-6 guys at the deadline from a struggling team.

two Vezina nominations in three years.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Maybe it's time he try? They haven't won anything with Bargin Bob except game 7 exits before the Cup round.

Gibson is not great, and the Ducks need an upgrade in goal.

It's Tampa or Pittsburgh who has a extra tender that is good and both can't protect them. So why not trade a 2nd/1st + prospect + for a goalie.

Ducks are not going far in the playoffs with the goalies they currently have. Both are good for backup duty. Gibson I think had the ability to be a great goalie but I think injuries will be the end of him.

We already have enough goalies if we trade for a goalie we would need to get rid of Bernier. We are not trading a 2nd/1st + prospect + for a goalie it is that simple. Bishop this season hasn't been that good. If we are to do better in the playoffs it would come from improving our forward core not goaltending.

Again this isn't just about Bishop to Anaheim, the main pieces are Palat and Vatanen which you like the idea of. I wouldn't do them straight up because of the expansion draft. Trading Vatanen helps you as you can now protect Manson, it hurts us as we will have to expose Koekkoek. So for that I'd want a + coming with Vatanen, not sure what that is though.

If these teams are talking trade and fans are saying they want to see Anaheim upgrade their goalie than a goalie swap might be mentioned as well. Both Bishop and Bernier are UFA at the end of the year so it's not targeting a rental, it's upgrading someone who'll walk at the end of the year just like Bernier would. With Bishop being better there has to be a + to Bernier.

So that's why I asked for a top prospect because of the pluses needed from Anaheim. Since you won't move a 1st not sure what would be close to value. Figured a recent pick in the same pick range would do it. Montour would be of interest but if we're getting Vatanen not as much. Don't need a LD so Larsson isn't of much interest, that's why Jones seems the best bet. Thought DeBrincat since we have Raddysh but thought he might be higher valued than Jones even though he was drafted after him.

Bishop is a rental for us because he would be gone after the season saying he is a upgrade doesn't mean he isn't a rental.

Also we don't want to trade any of our good prospects who are expansion exempt.

Bernier: 6-2-1 2.90 .901% $4.15m
Bishop: 9-10-2 2.82 .906% $5.95m

What exactly makes Bishop worth a top prospect to "upgrade" pretty close stats, while taking on a higher cap?

Ducks seem to be pretty set in net, although they could use a top-6 or two. I'd like to see them move out Theodore/Larsson+2nd+dump for a couple top-6 guys at the deadline from a struggling team.

We are not going to be acquiring a couple top 6 forwards and we are not trading Theodore or Larsson for a rental.

 

[Rschmitz]

Bernier: 6-2-1 2.90 .901% $4.15m
Bishop: 9-10-2 2.82 .906% $5.95m

What exactly makes Bishop worth a top prospect to "upgrade" pretty close stats, while taking on a higher cap?

Ducks seem to be pretty set in net, although they could use a top-6 or two. I'd like to see them move out Theodore/Larsson+2nd+dump for a couple top-6 guys at the deadline from a struggling team.

OR you can use the larger sample size and playoff stats to form a more realistic comparison

 

[duxfan8]

Bishop at 50% for Bernier + Megna

There's no point for the Ducks unless they're freeing up cap space.