Ansar Khan: Svechnikov won't receive QO, will become UFA

[TheOctopusKid]

I think if you look at Holland's last 2 seasons he demonstrated that he knew exactly how to rebuild. The majority of the assets that people seem to think have us turning around in 3 years are assets that Holland acquired or pieces acquired with picks that Holland acquired. At this point Holland has done as much for the rebuild as Yzerman if not more. Stylistically there's more similarities between Yzerman and Holland than differences. The biggest difference is that Holland has more experience and Yzerman doesn't value grinding/character type players that win you cups. A Holland team is a team that most Detroiters can relate too. An Yzerman teams don't have that type of lunch pail character.

Agree to Disagree here. I think yes, Holland knows that in rebuild you "Trade players away for draft picks". I think we all generally understand that conceptually and you're right, he did that the last two years. I don't really consider that to be particularly unique skill of his because that is more of a general function. Now, I will say that Holland netted us good return for the pieces he did move given how soft the market was and truthfully, how bad the assets we were offering up (Jensen, Sproul, etc.) - although he hit it out of the park with Tatar's return, solid return for Gus, and Mrazek.

As for the majority of the assets that are going to spring us forward - I'm kind of surprised to hear you say that given your clearly established opinion that we are very far away from returning to form because we lack elite talent, with the exception of potentially Seider - which was not a Holland pick. Truth be told, I'm far more down on the Holland prospects and really expect many of them to be gone in less than two years or play in a lower role than where they were originally expected to be (i.e. Rasmussen as a 3rd line W, instead of a C). So to say that "Holland has done as much for the rebuild as Yzerman..", I'm not sure about that. I don't want to get into a Yzerman vs. Holland debate, truthfully, as I said before, I loved Kenny, still do and I think he's an outstanding GM, but in terms of where the Wings are and where we need to go, I trust Yzerman instead.

 

[DoMakc]

I don't think that's wholly true. Just because someone was your mentor does not mean you are exactly like them. There's no doubt that Yzerman learned a lot from Holland but so far in Yzerman's career I haven't seen a lot of emulation of Holland. Keep in mind that Detroit had a very strong executive management team in the 90s until probably 2008 when Bowman left to help is son build Chicago.

You can have a mentor but still be your own man and have your own style in a management capacity. The one thing I see Yzerman doing that Holland didn't do in Holland's last 10 years in Detroit is building a braintrust around him. I really do believe that the slow collapse of the Red Wings happened not only because Holland couldn't manage the salary cap with enough foresight but also because the best hockey brains that helped build 1 to 4 championships all left.

Holland replaced Joe McDonnel with Tyler f***ing Wright with his illustrious resume of helping CBJ draft f*** all. We had Jim Nill leave and Ryan Martin absorbed his duties instead of Detroit hiring a 2nd AGM. As I said before, Bowman left and we lost a brilliant consulting mind in the room saying, "What if?" That wasn't just a resource Holland used. Babcock also used Scotty as a sounding board during those amazing 4 years post 2005 lockout.

Also Holland always came off as the guy that worked with or for the coach, and not the other way around. We saw a lot of that with Babcock after 2008. In interviews and articles it's always come across as the coach of Tampa, Syracuse and even Detroit made it clear they worked for Yzerman. That's a HUGE difference.

Yzerman also seems more in tune with what's going on in the locker room than Holland did, especially post 2010 Holland. He's also much quicker to pull the trigger on a trade regardless of a player's talent as we've seen with Mantha and AA.

You talk like Joe McConnel was an asset. Wings' North American sucked donkey's balls in nineties and aughts. Everybody likes to mention Sheahan, Kindl, Smith etc. Well those were McConnel's picks. And actaully more successful ones. Under Tyler Wright Wings' North American scouting actually improved leaps and bounds

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

You talk like Joe McConnel was an asset. Wings' North American sucked donkey's balls in nineties and aughts. Everybody likes to mention Sheahan, Kindl, Smith etc. Well those were McConnel's picks. And actaully more successful ones. Under Tyler Wright Wings' North American scouting actually improved leaps and bounds

He did more than North America. He was the director of scouting from 2003-04 until he left with Nil. Looking at the track record you're probably right.

For some reason I thought he was the guy responsible for the 1998 to 2003 drafts. He took over in 2003-04 and was director of amateur scouting for 10 years where the big finds were Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, Bertuzzi. That's pretty bad. Tyler Wright was also still really bad in his tenure as well, though. I wouldn't say it improved at all.