Suter vs Phaneuf

[triggrman]

I agree, Suter is a real good prospect but all it takes is one injury and bang he will go to AHL. I like Weber as well, the Predators have a good defense for sure.

You mean Suter getting injured and going down for conditioning?

The only player I can recall we've ever done that with is Dunham.

 

[flambers]

You mean Suter getting injured and going down for conditioning?

The only player I can recall we've ever done that with is Dunham.

Well we will have to wait and see. Should be fun to watch all the rookies this year.

 

[Gnashville]

Both have great potential. Both have won World juniors gold. Both will play on young exciting teams. Either or both could get injured and never be heard of again. It's a tie at this moment in time. I'm just glad to have one of them on my team.

What happened to Coburn? He was projected to be better than both.

 

[Kaizer]

What ever.....who was the best Dman at WJC not Suter It was Phaneuf, I watched lots of games and Phaneuf was great.

Not to mention he was named the best dman at WJC.

Just some facts to protect my opinion.
Best Dman at 2002 WJC was Knyazev and It was not Bowmeester and It was not Hamhuis.
Best Dman at 1999 WJC was Vishnevsky and It was not Van Ryn or Regehr or Stuart.

And at last WJC Phaneuf has more talent around him, while Sutter was almost alone.

 

[espo*]

I was impressed by Suter at WJC a bit more and that's why I would select him.

You must have been one in a thousand that watched both those guys in that tournament and came out with that evaluation.I don't care who Suter's d-partner was in that tournament.........phaneuf outplayed him by a good margin.It's only one tournament but for what it's worth Phaneuf was the best defenseman there by a breezy country mile. Suter was'nt even the 2nd best defensman there IMO.......Dion's partner Weber should get that distinction IMO.He got ripped off in the all-star balloting to me.Suter won it on name to me.

 

[nomorekids]

You must have been one in a thousand that watched both those guys in that tournament and came out with that evaluation.I don't care who Suter's d-partner was in that tournament.........phaneuf outplayed him by a good margin.It's only one tournament but for what it's worth Phaneuf was the best defenseman there by a breezy country mile. Suter was'nt even the 2nd best defensman there IMO.......Dion's partner Weber should get that distinction IMO.He got ripped off in the all-star balloting to me.Suter won it on name to me.

Suter was a rock defensively and lead the tournament in defensive scoring on a bad, bad team. What more do you want? I'm a fan of the Preds, so I have no reason to say this other than the fact it's the truth...Weber did NOT outplay Suter.

 

[espo*]

Suter was a rock defensively and lead the tournament in defensive scoring on a bad, bad team. What more do you want? I'm a fan of the Preds, so I have no reason to say this other than the fact it's the truth...Weber did NOT outplay Suter.

I must have a bad memory,i can recall nothing about that U.S entry in North Dakota that could even remotely be considered "rock like" when talking about defensive play,the team that i watched leaked like a dyke that was in bad need of repairs.He did lead the tourney in scoring and that does'nt surprise me or even impress me that much..........they were a run and gun team on a team whose one asset was offensive talent and he saw all the p.p ice time he could handle and ice time period,i'm not surprised he led the tourney in scoring,i never said he was'nt gifted offensively or not the defensman with the most offensive talent in his game among reargaurds at the tourney.


But i saw the games and he did'nt do near the job of shutting the opposition down that Phaneuf and Weber did at that tourney and in the end that's what defense is all about.I not saying he did'nt play well but he did not exhibit the dominance that Weber and Phaneuf showcased at that tournament at all.Maybe with a better team he could have but that's neither here nor there........the only thing that matters is what the player did on the ice and from what i saw Phaneuf(easily) outplayed the guy and Weber did also. Did you watch Canada's games to make this judgment of Suter being superior to Weber in that tourney? Because i did see both the U.S and Canada's games.I do believe you live in the U.S yes? how did you manage to see Canada's games to assess both Suter and Weber,not just Suter? I can only assume that since it is difficult enough for U.S fans to get to watch their own team at the world juniors on American t.v that U.S networks most likely did'nt showcase the Canada games right?

But i may be wrong.........maybe you did get to see them somehow,maybe you vacationed to Ontario or something to check out the coverage and can thus make your assesment with due process. If so,you are entitled to your own opinion but i do not agree with it.But we may both evaluate effective defensive play differently,that is reasonable .Not only was Phaneuf but Weber also................money in the bank.No-one got anything done against them............nothing.And they played all the minutes against all the top guys.No-one did a damn thing against those two guys,they swatted away every star and offensive charge that came against them.They were absolutely awesome...............from what i saw,Suter was'nt.Good? yep....awesome? Nope

I have to disagree here.

 

[nomorekids]

As a matter of fact, I DID see EVERY game the US and Canada played...albeit after the fact and on tape. That said, Suter was tremendous defensively...but received a lot of the blame for things that were in no way his fault. He was paired with the US's weakest defenseman, and every time Likens' man would score a goal, SOMEONE would post on the board, "and that guy scored while Suter watched from the boards."

To anyone with a brain and some common sense...that's a ridiculous statement. Suter was on the boards..because that's where he had his man tied up. At times, he WAS covering two men at once. If Suter had the luxury of being paired with Weber or Phaneuf...it would have been a lot easier to notice how good he actually was.

This is, of course,just talking about the WJCs. Not even taking into account the fact that Suter was the best defensive d-man on a strong Admirals team in the AHL last year, and has been fingered as almost a "lock" to make the NHL this year as well.

 

[espo*]

As a matter of fact, I DID see EVERY game the US and Canada played...albeit after the fact and on tape. That said, Suter was tremendous defensively...but received a lot of the blame for things that were in no way his fault. He was paired with the US's weakest defenseman, and every time Likens' man would score a goal, SOMEONE would post on the board, "and that guy scored while Suter watched from the boards."

To anyone with a brain and some common sense...that's a ridiculous statement. Suter was on the boards..because that's where he had his man tied up. At times, he WAS covering two men at once. If Suter had the luxury of being paired with Weber or Phaneuf...it would have been a lot easier to notice how good he actually was.

This is, of course,just talking about the WJCs. Not even taking into account the fact that Suter was the best defensive d-man on a strong Admirals team in the AHL last year, and has been fingered as almost a "lock" to make the NHL this year as well.

Well that's good,at least you did see the games and thus can make your own assesment with credibility of the two players concerned.Having said that,i find it interesting you don't have high praise for Weber's performance at the tourney.But i find it most strange that you think Suter outplayed Weber hands down after having watched both play at those games.I think i'd be hard pressed to find an impartial observer who thinks Suter outplayed Weber at that tourney if they impartially judged both players games.Weber was awesome....as you said in your first post..."what more can you ask for?" Indeed!!! I mean i think you could reasonably say that Suter may have played just as well but outplayed Weber? Whew...........i just do-not recall that type of brilliance from Suter at all and it indeed would have had to have been brilliance because Weber was great,just great.

I'm not sure how playing with the admirals this year comes into our disagreement at all.........we were talking about Weber versus suter at the junior tournament.........Suters play in Wisconsin has nothing to do with that at all.And i'm still not sure how playing with a lesser team comes in a whole lot...........if he's
on the ice for a lot of goals he's on the ice for a lot of goals,not much can change that.It's not that i blame him for them because i don't....it's just that if you are picking all stars of tourneys and such it's gonna be hard to pass on the guy who was on for next to no goals in favor of a guy who was on the ice for quite a few of them.That's just the way athletics works.

Anyway, we disagree i guess.but i think one thing we won't disagree on is that Suter was definately not as good or dominant as Phaneuf at that tournament was he? Admiral this season or not.............Phaneuf was the superior player.And if you are honest in your assesment of both players performance of the games you DID watch............i think you'll definately come clean on that.Because really,between those two guys in North Dakota it was no contest at all...............round one unquestionably to Mr. Phaneuf. And that really was the point of my response to Kaizer's post.He was more impressed with Suter then Phaneuf at that tourney? WOW!! i've gotta call homerism on anyone that would agree with that.

 

[nomorekids]

but the point i'm trying to make is that a defender's partner has the ability to make his job a lot easier. I'm not arguing that Phaneuf or Weber was awesome at the WJCs...but those two made it very easy on each other. It's hard to judge Phaneuf and Suter in the WJCs because all things were not equal. I have said over and over that I'm withholding head-to-head judgement on those two until they're on a level playing field...something they haven't had to this point.

 

[espo*]

but the point i'm trying to make is that a defender's partner has the ability to make his job a lot easier. I'm not arguing that Phaneuf or Weber was awesome at the WJCs...but those two made it very easy on each other. It's hard to judge Phaneuf and Suter in the WJCs because all things were not equal. I have said over and over that I'm withholding head-to-head judgement on those two until they're on a level playing field...something they haven't had to this point.

yeah,he does have the ability to do that for sure.But for me i think you still have to judge a players performance by his actual play on the ice(which in all honesty is what you are trying to do with Suter here and what i am trying to do with Weber) i think we are actually arguing the same thing only coming from different ends.

I guess in the end i rate Weber's performance as better simply because it's so difficult to really say how much Phaneuf's presence made his game so great at that tournament..........i can only say that the on ice product and stat dominance can't be disregarded.On the other hand i know Suter was handicapped and still played very well.But when it comes to tie-breakers i can't help but go with the guy that had no damage done to him while he was on the ice and i can say that about Weber while i can't with Suter.Not saying Weber is better then Suter as a defenseman just that at that tournament i think the fact that he was pretty much defensively perfect has to give him the edge.

How many goals were scored on Canada when Phaneuf and Weber were on the ice?(and they were on all the time against all the top guys in all the tough situations in all games) if memory serves me correctly it may have been one or two...i'm not even sure it was that high......that's incredible any way you slice it in that tournament.phaneuf did'nt take his shifts on defense alone after all.They were the best defensive duo i've ever seen since watching that tournament and i've been watching it for a long time now.If that does'nt get Weber an all star i don't know what does. Suter will most likely go on to have the more storied career in the nhl next to Weber but for this one tourney it's hard for me to say he was better then Weber this time,especially when his team does poorly and he was a defenseman on a bad defensive team,tough for me to overlook in the end ..........Weber was so dominant,partner be damned.He should have got the other all star selection IMO.

But that's just how i see it.

But i do have to stand firm on my original post as far as the poster saying he was more impressed with Suter than phaneuf that tourney.If he watched the games i don't see any reasonable way he could say that.Offensively and defensivley Dion was THE MAN..............truth be told he was the best player in the tournament by far(with respect to you Patrice Bergeron) He was totally 100% dominant from the first shift to the last on the going away gold medal team. I'm also reserving judgment on whther Suter or Phaneuf will be the better nhl player but in that tournament..................he was better for sure........quite better.how anyone could be more impressed with anyones play at that tournament then phaneufs is a mystery to me.

 

[KOMO_ROCKS]

I like Phaneuf's game much more. This kid is the real deal folks. At least I think so.

 

[flambers]

yeah,he does have the ability to do that for sure.But for me i think you still have to judge a players performance by his actual play on the ice(which in all honesty is what you are trying to do with Suter here and what i am trying to do with Weber) i think we are actually arguing the same thing only coming from different ends.

I guess in the end i rate Weber's performance as better simply because it's so difficult to really say how much Phaneuf's presence made his game so great at that tournament..........i can only say that the on ice product and stat dominance can't be disregarded.On the other hand i know Suter was handicapped and still played very well.But when it comes to tie-breakers i can't help but go with the guy that had no damage done to him while he was on the ice and i can say that about Weber while i can't with Suter.Not saying Weber is better then Suter as a defenseman just that at that tournament i think the fact that he was pretty much defensively perfect has to give him the edge.

How many goals were scored on Canada when Phaneuf and Weber were on the ice?(and they were on all the time against all the top guys in all the tough situations in all games) if memory serves me correctly it may have been one or two...i'm not even sure it was that high......that's incredible any way you slice it in that tournament.phaneuf did'nt take his shifts on defense alone after all.They were the best defensive duo i've ever seen since watching that tournament and i've been watching it for a long time now.If that does'nt get Weber an all star i don't know what does. Suter will most likely go on to have the more storied career in the nhl next to Weber but for this one tourney it's hard for me to say he was better then Weber this time,especially when his team does poorly and he was a defenseman on a bad defensive team,tough for me to overlook in the end ..........Weber was so dominant,partner be damned.He should have got the other all star selection IMO.

But that's just how i see it.

But i do have to stand firm on my original post as far as the poster saying he was more impressed with Suter than phaneuf that tourney.If he watched the games i don't see any reasonable way he could say that.Offensively and defensivley Dion was THE MAN..............truth be told he was the best player in the tournament by far(with respect to you Patrice Bergeron) He was totally 100% dominant from the first shift to the last on the going away gold medal team. I'm also reserving judgment on whther Suter or Phaneuf will be the better nhl player but in that tournament..................he was better for sure........quite better.how anyone could be more impressed with anyones play at that tournament then phaneufs is a mystery to me.

I totally agree, Phaneuf was awesome at WJC.