Sundin vs Goulet

[Ziostilon]

Mats has his international accolades which should be in play. Goulet was a great goal scoring winger. Also already been inducted unlike Mats, which some people think if he didn't play in Toronto his chances would decrease.

Who is the better player?
Michel Goulet or Mats Johan Sundin

Click to read more...

 

[seventieslord]

I'm going to say Sundin, strangely enough. Even though Goulet is an unquestioned HHOFer and Sundin a very controversial candidate.

Sundin was, for a very long time, the 6th-15th-best offensive player in the game. Top-10s don't really tell the whole story with him. He was an elite goal scorer and playmaker. Goulet was only an elite goalscorer. Their defensive games and intensity levels were similar - just adequate.

It's really, really close. Sundin will always be picked later than Goulet in the ATDs, but that's because Goulet is a winger and Sundin is a center. I think Sundin was a bit more dominant, and was a good player for longer, too.

 

[Reds4Life]

Sundin can carry a team, Goulet can't. I'd take Sundin every time.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Sundin can carry a team, Goulet can't. I'd take Sundin every time.

I think Sundin is likely better, but... where did Sundin ever carry his team to?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

I think Sundin is likely better, but... where did Sundin ever carry his team to?

as far as a single man can carry a team... the conference finals.
name any cup winning team that won solely on the efforts of one player alone?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

as far as a single man can carry a team... the conference finals.
name any cup winning team that won solely on the efforts of one player alone?

1993 Montreal Canadiens?

(Yes, I know goalies are different, but you asked).

 

[Reds4Life]

I think Sundin is likely better, but... where did Sundin ever carry his team to?

Well, I ment that he was usually (always) best offensive player on his team, he faced the toughest opposition and he carried his team offensively. No player can ever win you Stanley Cup by himself.

1993 Montreal Canadiens?

(Yes, I know goalies are different, but you asked).

Without for example Desjardins, Habs would never win that Cup.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Sundin and the Nordiques

Well, I ment that he was usually (always) best offensive player on his team, he faced the toughest opposition and he carried his team offensively. No player can ever win you Stanley Cup by himself.



Without for example Desjardins, Habs would never win that Cup.

We are talking about the same Mats Sundin who played for the Nordiques who blew a 2 - 0 Division Semi-Final advantage in 1993 against the Montreal Canadiens going home, highlited by the Pierre Page behind the bench, meltdown rant at Sundin?

 

[cynicism]

I still don't understand how people say Sundin will automatically be inducted because of the Toronto connection. I understand Toronto is Canada's biggest city, all the media's there, the HOF's there, its the "centre of the hockey universe" etc etc. But if this were true, Wendel Clark and Rick Vaive would be a hall of famers by now.

I'd say Sundin but only in default as Goulet was in the twilight of his career when I started watching hockey.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Sundin, and it's not even close.

 

[Blades of Glory]

as far as a single man can carry a team... the conference finals.
name any cup winning team that won solely on the efforts of one player alone?

Sundin led his team to the Conference Finals a grand total of...one time. The other time the Leafs reached the third round, he was barely involved with it. Not that impressive.

 

[Reds4Life]

We are talking about the same Mats Sundin who played for the Nordiques who blew a 2 - 0 Division Semi-Final advantage in 1993 against the Montreal Canadiens going home, highlited by the Pierre Page behind the bench, meltdown rant at Sundin?

Because no one else had a bad game or bad series?

geez man, you are so biased towards some players that it is not even funny.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Oh Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Because no one else had a bad game or bad series?

geez man, you are so biased towards some players that it is not even funny.

If you want the accolades you have to accept the responsibilities. One of the responsibilities is paying the price which unlike Forsberg, Sundin was never willing to do.

 

[Reds4Life]

If you want the accolades you have to accept the responsibilities. One of the responsibilities is paying the price which unlike Forsberg, Sundin was never willing to do.

Really? So why for example Ray Bourque, 3rd or 4th best defenseman of all time, did not win a Cup in his prime? Did he suck? Or was his team just too weak?
From what I have seen I have to say Sundin always played hard, when he was on a great team (basically only team Sweden, Leafs sucked all the time) he was amazing.

 

[tony d]

Mats Sundin

 

[raleh]

Really? So why for example Ray Bourque, 3rd or 4th best defenseman of all time, did not win a Cup in his prime? Did he suck? Or was his team just too weak?
From what I have seen I have to say Sundin always played hard, when he was on a great team (basically only team Sweden, Leafs sucked all the time) he was amazing.

You mean the same Ray Bourque who once forgot to do his book report in 7th grade and blew the A average he was hoping for?

If you want to accolades you have to be willing to accept the responsibilities, Ray.

And that is why Spiderman is the greatest NHLer of all time.

 

[seventieslord]

You mean the same Ray Bourque who once forgot to do his book report in 7th grade and blew the A average he was hoping for?

If you want to accolades you have to be willing to accept the responsibilities, Ray.

And that is why Spiderman is the greatest NHLer of all time.

It says here that he also once picked up a dog by the hind legs and pushed him around like a vaccuum cleaner.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I still don't understand how people say Sundin will automatically be inducted because of the Toronto connection. I understand Toronto is Canada's biggest city, all the media's there, the HOF's there, its the "centre of the hockey universe" etc etc. But if this were true, Wendel Clark and Rick Vaive would be a hall of famers by now.

I'd say Sundin but only in default as Goulet was in the twilight of his career when I started watching hockey.

Sundin was a much better player than Clark or Vaive.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

as far as a single man can carry a team... the conference finals.
name any cup winning team that won solely on the efforts of one player alone?

I dont really think he carried that team.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

Sundin, and it's not even close.

That's a joke right?

Incidentally, I think the ridiculously over-abused phrase "and it's not even close" should be banned.

 

[seventieslord]

Sundin was a much better player than Clark or Vaive.

I was gonna say that, but..... didn't think it needed to be said.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I was gonna say that, but..... didn't think it needed to be said.

But how much better were Clark and Vaive than Dick Duff?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

That's a joke right?

Incidentally, I think the ridiculously over-abused phrase "and it's not even close" should be banned.

Not at all. I watched them both play their entire careers, and I would take Sundin over Goulet without hesitation.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

If you want the accolades you have to accept the responsibilities. One of the responsibilities is paying the price which unlike Forsberg, Sundin was never willing to do.

to be fair, sundin was willing to pay the price, but only when playing for team sweden.

sidenote: you brought up quebec's epic collapse in '93, when sundin was perhaps the worst of a bad bunch (worse than a slug like kovalenko because sundin was coming off a career offensive year, in which he produced very consistently, and was counted on to do a lot more). i am by no means a sundin fan, but in light of the rest of his career by now i think we can forgive him for being a lazy floater when he was 21. like everyone else, i've been thinking about modano and tkachuk recently, and most of us never bring up the soft perimeter player modano was when he was younger, but the tkachuk who publicly encouraged tverdovsky's hold out and trashed the hotel room in nagano endures, even though st. louis fans will go the grave claiming that he has become a model vet and team guy in his later years (though he did show up to camp ridiculously overweight that one time, so what do they know?) where do we draw the line with a player's younger years affecting their legacy? personally, mario is still tainted for me, and no amount of conn smythes and gaudy PPG averages can erase that punk kid i hated in the 80s, and it's one of the reasons i have him behind beliveau. but maybe that's just me: fan first, "historian" second.

 

[Big Phil]

I picked Goulet. But tomorrow I may pick Sundin. Nice poll, but fairly different players I find. Goulet was as high as 3rd in scoring and as high as 2nd in goals. Sundin never hit those heights but he was consistently very, very good for a longer time and that's telling considering Goulet played hockey at a star-like level for about 8 years.

If you were drafting a player you might like Sundin but he also had some knocks on him. He didn't shoot enough, he never led a team anywhere etc. Goulet was a bona fide sniper and made no apologies about it. Like I said, they are close, Sundin being the better playmaker too.