stick flex discussion

[Jarick]

I've got a buddy who's 6'4 and under 160 and uses a 100 flex. He used a 112 flex One85 for a while (BOMB of a shot). Did an 85 flex with a full length wood plug too. But felt most comfortable with a 100.

Of course I also know a guy 5'6 160 and uses a 100 flex.

Gotta keep in mind the people who need the guidelines are typically beginners or novice players. I sure wouldn't tell Cammalleri that at 5'9 85 flex might be too stiff for him!

 

[MJAYK]

I've got a buddy who's 6'4 and under 160 and uses a 100 flex. He used a 112 flex One85 for a while (BOMB of a shot). Did an 85 flex with a full length wood plug too. But felt most comfortable with a 100.

Of course I also know a guy 5'6 160 and uses a 100 flex.

Gotta keep in mind the people who need the guidelines are typically beginners or novice players. I sure wouldn't tell Cammalleri that at 5'9 85 flex might be too stiff for him!

So many different flexes are being preferred amongst us amateur hockey players.

A VAST majority are using sticks way too stiff for them. I'm a guy whos 5'7 and 160lbs and i have tried sticks from 100 flex to 65, which is what i am currently using. Getting the most out of your shot requires flex on your stick, and im talking about major flex. You should be able to really whip it to get the most out of yourself in game situations.

Fatigue is a huge factor in hockey and it makes flexing that stick for a quick shot even harder. I couldn't even imagine using anything stiffer than my 65 in the 3rd round of a hockey game.

Just my 2 cents

 

[r3cc0s]

I usually play a short stick... but for fun I took my buddy's ST out which he has at almost eyelevel in length w/o skates and at the mouth with skates

its the same flex, same stick, just a different blade (iggy vs sakic)
85 flex, and to me... it feels like a whip

unlike my "cut down" stick, it also seems so much more forgiving (maybe the blade) but I can load on one-timer whether the pass is in the proper spot, out in front or way behind me... where with my stick I have to hit to right on the heel and it needs to be in the sweet spot lining up with or just in front of my front skate to load great

man its fun, but I do prefer dangling with a shorter stick... @ 85 cut down to my collar bone, I'll bet I'm using something close to 110

 

[Pog Form]

I'm 6'2", 195ish and for the past couple of years, I've been using a 75 flex, with a 3" wood plug. With the plug, it's probably something like a 67. I recently broke the last of my sticks from this batch and had to use my old stick which is an 85 (again with a 3" plug, so 77ish) and it felt good. I think for my next batch I'm going to go back to 85 which I'm happy about because they are much easier to find at my price point.

P.S. my upper body is not very strong which is why I use a flex that seems a lot lower than it should be for my height/weight.

 

[dwreckm]

My first stick was an unwieldy 100+ flex Easton stick. Couldn't flex it to save my life, couldn't get a shot to leave the ice surface. My current stick is an 87 flex, which I've scored my first two goals with, and I can actually saucer pass and get a stick above goalie pad level.

 

[Stickmata]

The bottom line is, i've found that you have nothing constructive and intellectual to say and you're just here to say anything to disagree.

What really is funny is that you said you agree with Jarick's suggestion in your last reply when clearly you've been against it the whole time.

You have some serious reading comprehension problems. I never said guidelines were unnecessary or wrong. What I said was wrong was your totally unsupported claim that:

the rule of thumb is: a whipper stick is better than a stiff stick

There is no such rule of thumb and I really hope nobody on here takes that advice to heart.

 

[PlayoffBeard]

Can someone explain the proper way to flex a stick? I always thought it was to push down on your bottom hand while taking a shot but I just recently read that pushing your top hand towards your body (kind of like a lever) while shooting is the way to properly flex the stick.

Or is it a combination of both?

The most flex I have felt is when snapping my wrists hard while shooting and not really worrying about pushing on the stick. It seems like it takes care of itself.

Hope this makes sense....

BTW, I am 6' 185 lbs and use a 75 flex (easton s19). Snap shots are a dream with that stick!

 

[r3cc0s]

best way to tell is to try

there are shops around with those cages where you can test the sticks, but often they'll only let you wrist em...

that's not a bad thing, cause at the end of the day... probably 90% of your actual in game shots are wristers/snappers

if you can draw the puck back, pull it through with an open to close and the puck flies the way you want... I think you're fine

probably is the "relative" height of the stick, and for a guy like me, I am old school and an 85 if plenty when cut down almost 8 inches (though I'm 6'0 195)

I notice alot of beginners have a tendancy to do this... when they shoot they look at the net... that's right, pick your spot... but like golf, you kinda gotta keep your head still, body static, and push through with your arm's, your hips and weight transfer so you actually use the flex of your stick..

many guys just "lift" the puck rather stay down and shoot it

or rather... i'd say, load the stick and point where you want the puck to go

 

[Knight]

Is the flex supposed to be very noticeable?

I have two sticks, one 85 flex, one is 100. I only prefer the 85 because of the curve. I'm 6' 170lbs, and just started in November. I can lift the puck easily with either one, but sometimes I feel like I do it without flexing the stick. My shot still has some zip on it too. I think part of it is that I have a mental block from damaging the bottom of my old sticks on pavement that I have a hard time pressing them down into the ice. The only time I really feel a flex is when I take a slapshot. Maybe it's because I have Popeye forearms from years of tennis that I don't notice it when I'm taking wrist shots.

 

[hyster110]

My first stick was an unwieldy 100+ flex Easton stick. Couldn't flex it to save my life, couldn't get a shot to leave the ice surface. My current stick is an 87 flex, which I've scored my first two goals with, and I can actually saucer pass and get a stick above goalie pad level.

getting a shot to leave the ice, and saucer passing are all about followthrough and technique respectively. flex can help with your shot, but technique is the major component

 

[dwreckm]

getting a shot to leave the ice, and saucer passing are all about followthrough and technique respectively. flex can help with your shot, but technique is the major component

I guess I should feel good then, for all the time I've spent off-ice practicing my shots.

 

[Jarick]

From the other thread...

Just one problem however; accepting passes, especially hard passes, can be tricky. Due to the high flex, taking a pass can actually bend the stick so if you want to release the shot right away, you'd better have soft hands when going with this flex.

I'm talking here about going down the proper wing(a right handed shot going down the right side) not the off-wing. On two on ones when I get a pass I have to hesitate for a split second when receiving a pass if I want to really get a hard shot off otherwise the whip will screw up the shot and it ends up in the corner. This was/is never a problem when I switch over to my 100 flex synergy which seems like it has no flex at all compared to the 75. Keep in mind, I don't have much of a curve, never understood why some players love those huge toe curves, personal preference I suppose. I recommend trying a 75 flex no matter what your build is, you'll be in for a surprise.

This is where we need some clarification.

When you're holding a stick and get a hard pass, you're not really using strength. More than anything it's an indication of stick length being the predominant factor in determining actual flex. It doesn't matter if I'm a 150 pound beanpole or a 250 pound powerlifter. I'm literally just holding the stick and a puck comes at me.

You have to speak in terms of height here. I have a 75 flex intermediate, which is about the same as if you had a 65 flex full length stick cut down. It doesn't flex at all on hard passes because it's cut down to about 90-95 flex. I also have a 60 flex intermediate, which once cut down is about 70 flex. It flexes on passes to the point of being fairly unusable.

Once you get stiffer than the point of not having flex when you catch passes, that's the point in my opinion you are using too stiff of a stick. Again, a buddy of mine who's 6' uses 85 flex. He tried 75 once and it flexed too much for passes and his shots were all over the place due to excessive torquing. For me, I'm 5'8 and use a shorter stick and a 75 flex senior is between 100-110 and won't bend on slappers at all.

Another thing to keep in mind. For the most part with wrist/snap shots, you're using the puck as your primary piece of resistance. You do load against the ice a bit, but it's mostly a 6 ounce puck. That's why you want the stick to flex a bit when you push on it just a bit. If you can really get the stick to flex by giving it a light push, the stick will have an almost uncontrollable amount of bend once you start playing with the resistance of the puck.

My opinion is, ideally, you'd get just a little bit of flex/movement when catching and giving hard passes. Just enough to know it's there. At that point, a snapper will have a good amount of bend and slapper will just about max out the bend, just what you'd want. Yet the stick isn't flexing with quick stickhandling, which is a massive distraction.

Moving up would give you a stick that doesn't flex at all with hard passes or wrist shots, just a hair of bend on snappers, and a bit more on slappers. Lots of times those guys have good strong slappers and can bomb off pretty good shots, but they are leaving some power on the table with snappers. That's the preference.

Conversely if you go to the Hull type flex, you're getting a fair amount of flex on hard passes, snappers there is a ton of flex, and slappers you are losing energy because the stick can't store and unleash all that energy. Not to mention problems with torquing off target and the amount of lag on release of shots. It really takes an elite talent to be able to shoot with one of those, like Hull or Ovechkin.

Most of us will sit in about an 85 relative flex, meaning that if you're 6'2 and using a 100 flex stick at either full length or with a small plug, it's close to 85, or if you're 5'9 and cut down a 75 flex it's close to 85, or if you're 5'7 and use a 65 cut down a good bit it's close to 85.

 

[Jarick]

Can someone explain the proper way to flex a stick? I always thought it was to push down on your bottom hand while taking a shot but I just recently read that pushing your top hand towards your body (kind of like a lever) while shooting is the way to properly flex the stick.

The most flex I have felt is when snapping my wrists hard while shooting and not really worrying about pushing on the stick. It seems like it takes care of itself.

Early on I used nearly all wrist and forearm strength and would kind of sail the puck from heel to toe and off the blade towards the target. I had good accuracy and sometimes a strong shot, but the release is quite slow and left power on the table. This is your basic "sweep" wrist shot.

As my technique improved and I shortened the stick, I focused more on cupping the puck and a push-pull method of shooting. Accuracy is just about as good with quite a bit more power and a quicker release. That's a more modern snap shot.

You don't want to consciously think about flexing the stick while shooting as that's counterproductive. As I said in my previous post, your main bit of resistance is the puck and a little bit of ice. If you're using the right flex, you won't have to think about it, except for when you're learning the technique.

Mentally when I shoot I'm focused on as quick a release as possible and going for the general area of my target. The faster you move your hands, the quicker your release, and the higher the velocity of your shot. Get the right flex and you will add power. Too soft and you will have a lag on your shot. Too stiff and you will lose power and potentially cause joint injuries.

One of these days I'll put a video together that explains it better than I can via post

 

[r3cc0s]

Is the flex supposed to be very noticeable?

I have two sticks, one 85 flex, one is 100. I only prefer the 85 because of the curve. I'm 6' 170lbs, and just started in November. I can lift the puck easily with either one, but sometimes I feel like I do it without flexing the stick. My shot still has some zip on it too. I think part of it is that I have a mental block from damaging the bottom of my old sticks on pavement that I have a hard time pressing them down into the ice. The only time I really feel a flex is when I take a slapshot. Maybe it's because I have Popeye forearms from years of tennis that I don't notice it when I'm taking wrist shots.

I'll say yes... I think beginners who "lift" the puck rather than shoot, may be using the correct open to close action in the wrist, but without loading the stick into the ice.

Without loading the stick into the ice, I find that the shots don't come off flat, lack velocity, and typically flutter & arches.

you can feel the flex when you feel the blade snap back into shape with the weight of the puck... its almost like a 2ndary feeling you'll get after you first slap/snap the stick into the ice

 

[PlayoffBeard]

Early on I used nearly all wrist and forearm strength and would kind of sail the puck from heel to toe and off the blade towards the target. I had good accuracy and sometimes a strong shot, but the release is quite slow and left power on the table. This is your basic "sweep" wrist shot.

As my technique improved and I shortened the stick, I focused more on cupping the puck and a push-pull method of shooting. Accuracy is just about as good with quite a bit more power and a quicker release. That's a more modern snap shot.

You don't want to consciously think about flexing the stick while shooting as that's counterproductive. As I said in my previous post, your main bit of resistance is the puck and a little bit of ice. If you're using the right flex, you won't have to think about it, except for when you're learning the technique.

Mentally when I shoot I'm focused on as quick a release as possible and going for the general area of my target. The faster you move your hands, the quicker your release, and the higher the velocity of your shot. Get the right flex and you will add power. Too soft and you will have a lag on your shot. Too stiff and you will lose power and potentially cause joint injuries.

One of these days I'll put a video together that explains it better than I can via post

Well said. This and your previous post are really informative. I pretty much agree with everything you said. I already have a pretty decent shot but we are all always looking for that extra advantage to get a few extra MPH's.

I would love to tape myself taking shots at open hockey just to see how much I flex the stick. Has anyone tried this? I have a sony camera that takes very quick pictures for a certain time frame which would probably work.

As far as slap shots are concerned, I can really feel the flex of the stick b/c of the initial blade to ice contact that occurs a few inches before the puck. The most flex I feel in the stick is during one timers. I assume that is b/c in addition to taking a slap shot the puck is moving and providing even more resistance. But, that is just speculation.

For snap shots, I tend to put the puck on the toe of the blade and then pull it back into the middle/heel of the blade while snapping my wrists. This is my favorite/most accurate shot. Also, this is where I would love to see how much flex that I get on the stick.

Wrist shots are the shots I use the least and probably have the least amount of flex for me but that may be more due to technique.

 

[hyster110]

From the other thread...




This is where we need some clarification.

When you're holding a stick and get a hard pass, you're not really using strength. More than anything it's an indication of stick length being the predominant factor in determining actual flex. It doesn't matter if I'm a 150 pound beanpole or a 250 pound powerlifter. I'm literally just holding the stick and a puck comes at me.

You have to speak in terms of height here. I have a 75 flex intermediate, which is about the same as if you had a 65 flex full length stick cut down. It doesn't flex at all on hard passes because it's cut down to about 90-95 flex. I also have a 60 flex intermediate, which once cut down is about 70 flex. It flexes on passes to the point of being fairly unusable.

Once you get stiffer than the point of not having flex when you catch passes, that's the point in my opinion you are using too stiff of a stick. Again, a buddy of mine who's 6' uses 85 flex. He tried 75 once and it flexed too much for passes and his shots were all over the place due to excessive torquing. For me, I'm 5'8 and use a shorter stick and a 75 flex senior is between 100-110 and won't bend on slappers at all.

Another thing to keep in mind. For the most part with wrist/snap shots, you're using the puck as your primary piece of resistance. You do load against the ice a bit, but it's mostly a 6 ounce puck. That's why you want the stick to flex a bit when you push on it just a bit. If you can really get the stick to flex by giving it a light push, the stick will have an almost uncontrollable amount of bend once you start playing with the resistance of the puck.

My opinion is, ideally, you'd get just a little bit of flex/movement when catching and giving hard passes. Just enough to know it's there. At that point, a snapper will have a good amount of bend and slapper will just about max out the bend, just what you'd want. Yet the stick isn't flexing with quick stickhandling, which is a massive distraction.

Moving up would give you a stick that doesn't flex at all with hard passes or wrist shots, just a hair of bend on snappers, and a bit more on slappers. Lots of times those guys have good strong slappers and can bomb off pretty good shots, but they are leaving some power on the table with snappers. That's the preference.

Conversely if you go to the Hull type flex, you're getting a fair amount of flex on hard passes, snappers there is a ton of flex, and slappers you are losing energy because the stick can't store and unleash all that energy. Not to mention problems with torquing off target and the amount of lag on release of shots. It really takes an elite talent to be able to shoot with one of those, like Hull or Ovechkin.

Most of us will sit in about an 85 relative flex, meaning that if you're 6'2 and using a 100 flex stick at either full length or with a small plug, it's close to 85, or if you're 5'9 and cut down a 75 flex it's close to 85, or if you're 5'7 and use a 65 cut down a good bit it's close to 85.

a 100 flex stick at full length would be a 100 flex, as for a plug, each inch changes the flex by 3 flex

 

[Jarick]

I'm talking about most newer sticks that come longer than normal and are supposed to be cut a couple inches to reach 100 flex.

 

[hyster110]

I'm talking about most newer sticks that come longer than normal and are supposed to be cut a couple inches to reach 100 flex.

i am pretty sure the flex rating for those sticks are accurate. in fact i know bauers are. i was recently in to purchase a new stick and was look at some moncton wildcat pro stocks. they have normal ones rated at 95 flex and ones about 4 inches longer rated at 95 flex. when i cut off the excess and flexed it, it was much stiffer then the regular length stick.

 

[AIREAYE]

i am pretty sure the flex rating for those sticks are accurate. in fact i know bauers are. i was recently in to purchase a new stick and was look at some moncton wildcat pro stocks. they have normal ones rated at 95 flex and ones about 4 inches longer rated at 95 flex. when i cut off the excess and flexed it, it was much stiffer then the regular length stick.

1) Those were prostock sticks, the player could have requested the stick to be 95 flex at that length. Retail sticks that are longer than standard 60" mostly are rated at the marked flex after a certain length, or buffer zone. You see this in Easton sticks and the newer Warriors (though the flex points are different thus making the length of cutting needed to reach that flex different)

2) 'Flexing' sticks in-store is a horrible way to determine if two sticks have the same flex. You are never going through that motion when using your stick and the stick is never designed to flex that way. And then you factor in mid-kick sticks who feel more flexible vs low-kick sticks and you literally have yourself a crapshoot.

 

[Clarkington III]

I dont know if this has been covered, but after using 2-piece versions of the One95 (~95 flex) and Total One (~83 flex) shafts back and forth with a Total One blade, I wanted a stick that I could feel the flex and release of the Total One shaft and have the stiffness of the One95. I finally bough an X60 shaft to pair with an X60 blade I had and so far so good.

Kickpoint is huge depending on what you want. The X60 is about an 82 flex (Composite plug added and cut) yet combines both of what I wanted from the other two.

There are a lot of options but part of the process is trial and error.

 

[Jarick]

Doesn't the Total One shaft not have the engineered mid kickpoint though? I'd expect it to perform between a Vapor OPS and Total One OPS if that's the case.

 

[651*]

I need some new lumber but the oudoor rinks here are due to turn into ponds soon enough.

This 100 Z-Bubble just seems way too stiff for me. Just got out of a Play it Again yesterday and the guy told me Brett Hull switched off between a 75 and higher - the 75 he told me he used for PPs. Not sure how learned this guy was but that's what he said.

 

[Jarick]

Z-Bubbles in my experience are much stiffer than rated. I had a 75 flex that felt like about 100+.

What's your height and what level do you play?

 

[651*]

31, Retired, lol. Pickup games basically with the varsity HS team and A bantams is what I will play, but mostly just will be shooting for fun.

Height is 6' and I am about 30 lbs overweight right now at 205lb.

 

[Jarick]

Well 85 flex is the normal recommendation for someone your height but sounds like you played a high level in the past and might like a stiffer 100 flex? I know my uncle who played varsity and some juniors back in the day is under 6' but uses 100+ flex because he used to play with Sherwood 9950's.

Hard to say unless you try them out. Can you take some shots with some of the other guys' sticks in warmups? See what they feel like?

Also, around here Total Hockey has some great deals. You can get some $150-200 sticks for half price. I got a Miken Z9 last month and it's a really good stick, although if you're used to wood blades it might be a bit of a weird transition. Maybe try a 90 flex for them (closer to 100 flex for other brands)?