Steven Stamkos vs Jonathan Toews: who ranks higher all time right now?

[MacMacandBarbie]

Honestly I take Toews if I can draft either one from the start of their careers.

The pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction against Toews. To give a snapshot in time, Stamkos didn’t even make Team Canada in 2010 in the midst of his absolute peak whereas Toews was Canada’s best player and forward of the tournament.

Something about Stamkos game despite the high point totals just feels like empty calories. His reputation is bolstered by winning two cups where he wasn’t even top 5 most important players on his team.

Toews is the opposite. At his best he was one of the most complete players in the game and brought so much more value to the ice than his numbers suggest.

Perfect post. Toews just impacts winning in his prime so much more than stammer.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'd definitely pick Toews on my team over Stamkos. More valuable to go deep in the playoffs.

 

[Jack Spider]

2014 Toews at the olympics is unmatched. He ran the show with commercials and showing up at other Canada medals. A true G.

 

[Regal]

That wasn't peak Stamkos. But either way, it was only his 2nd season in the league and he turned 20 basically when the Olympics started. Proves nothing.



Toews has hit 70+ pts 2x in his career. He's not a 70pt player, more like a 60pt player.



LMAOOOO yeah a guy who has never been a 1st AST, never been nominated for the hart or lindsay is better than guys who have swept the awards while putting up 30+ more pts than him. Peak Toews was a 60pt player. Matthews just put up 60 goals. Thanks for the laugh.

A handful of missed games and lockout shortened seasons doesn’t change the quality of the player. He paced for over 70 points for 5 consecutive seasons with a 0.94 PPG (77 point pace). But sure, he was a 60 point player. Lol

 

[Siludin]

So, Stamkos now NHL Top 100 player ever and intangibles Toews not?

Malkin bumped Toews long ago

 

[Master P]

Stammer ainec.

 

[Busher]

I like Toews’ 3 cups and his defensive play, and he’s definitely a better playoff performer than Stamkos, but there’s something about a player who’s never finished top 10 in points, never scored 50 goals or 100 points (or even 40 goals or 90 points), let alone a regular season major award, and may not reach the career milestones of either 500 goals or 1000 points.

I probably still take Toews over Stamkos because of his major contributions towards the 3 cups, but I thought Toews would end up with better numbers than what he actually produced in his career. Imagine if his offense took off the way Kane did after 2015. He would’ve had one of the all-time great careers.

 

[ijuka]

Stamkos better peak and more longevity, not sure what Toews has over him.

 

[Mulletman]

Many of the Tampa players have praised Stamkos as a great leader. And his comeback during the 2020 playoffs when he scored against Dallas was a huge mental boost for Tampa and the finals wasn't even close after that moment!

While Toews is done, Stamkos isn't even close to done. We might very well see Stamkos have his 2nd straight 100+ point season next year.

 

[Mulletman]

I don’t know what kind of health problems Toews has been dealing with,

Toews health problems are most likely linked to his plant based diet. Many people experience various health problems after a prolonged time on a plant based diet.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I like Toews’ 3 cups and his defensive play, and he’s definitely a better playoff performer than Stamkos, but there’s something about a player who’s never finished top 10 in points, never scored 50 goals or 100 points (or even 40 goals or 90 points), let alone a regular season major award, and may not reach the career milestones of either 500 goals or 1000 points.

I probably still take Toews over Stamkos because of his major contributions towards the 3 cups, but I thought Toews would end up with better numbers than what he actually produced in his career. Imagine if his offense took off the way Kane did after 2015. He would’ve had one of the all-time great careers.

Toews did win a selke and was a finalist many times during an era where Bergeron played, and also won the messier award. It’s not like Stamkos has much regular season hardware, it’s literally just two rockets. When you start looking at their international and playoff resume and see that Toews won a Conn Smythe and was MVP for a team that won gold while Stamkos wasn’t even on the team, it really evens out with regards to individual accomplishments.

 

[LightningStorm]

A handful of missed games and lockout shortened seasons doesn’t change the quality of the player. He paced for over 70 points for 5 consecutive seasons with a 0.94 PPG (77 point pace). But sure, he was a 60 point player. Lol

On a per 82 game rate, prime Toews (08/09-16/17) was a 31 goal/71 point player. If we were to translate his 2010-2015 playoff scoring rate to 82 games, he was a 26 goal/73 point scorer.

Peak Stamkos (09/10-12/13) was a 52 goal/95 point scorer per 82.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

On a per 82 game rate, prime Toews (08/09-16/17) was a 31 goal/71 point player. If we were to translate his 2010-2015 playoff scoring rate to 82 games, he was a 26 goal/73 point scorer.

Peak Stamkos (09/10-12/13) was a 52 goal/95 point scorer per 82.

Peak Stamkos also didn’t play defense at a high level, and had trouble generating plays for his teammates. Peak Stamkos in the playoffs is a 33 goal/72 point scorer per 82.

 

[jetsforever]

It's Toews IMO
I do think Stamkos has probably been a better player, but the question is about all-time greatness

 

[LightningStorm]

Peak Stamkos also didn’t play defense at a high level, and had trouble generating plays for his teammates. Peak Stamkos in the playoffs is a 33 goal/72 point scorer per 82.

I'm not disputing Toews has been the better playoff performer, which is a big reason I gave him the edge in prime. But peak Stamkos (pre leg injury) only played in the playoffs in 2011, and that was while he was on the coldest streak during his peak. After leading the NHL in scoring through January (though would've been #2 if not for Crosby's injury earlier that month), he was 56th in scoring from February through the end of the RS, and that cold streak continued into the playoffs. This isn't to excuse his subpar 2011 playoffs, just to say it wasn't inherently anything about the playoffs that caused his play to drop, and that he was already in a slump entering them.

 

[heretik27]

Toews to me has had far more of an impactful performance leading to his teams success than Stamkos ever has, whether in the NHL or in International play for Team Canada. It's nice that Stamkos can score in the regular season, but Toews outpoints him in the playoffs AND has played a shutdown center role his entire career. Stamkos was a luxury that Tampa didn't even need to win their last two Cups.

People have a rather irrational hatred of Toews on here because the Canadian media dared to compare his impact to Crosby's on the ice. Yet, Crosby was hardly the world beater the media made him out to be at the Olympics until he finally stepped up and scored the golden goal. I think if Canada had lost that game the narrative around him might not have been so rosey after the tournament.

 

[LightningStorm]

Toews to me has had far more of an impactful performance leading to his teams success than Stamkos ever has, whether in the NHL or in International play for Team Canada. It's nice that Stamkos can score in the regular season, but Toews outpoints him in the playoffs AND has played a shutdown center role his entire career. Stamkos was a luxury that Tampa didn't even need to win their last two Cups.

This goes back to what I mentioned in my OP, where Toews at his best and the team around him at his best coincided more than Stamkos, who had the team around him get better AFTER his leg injury. In terms of both organizations building up to their multiple cup wins, Chicago was much further along when Toews entered the league than Tampa was with Stamkos. Heck, Yzerman didn't even arrive until after Stamkos's 2nd season. Also, IMO, Keith was the best Hawk during their 3 cups, and one could argue Kane was better too.

People have a rather irrational hatred of Toews on here because the Canadian media dared to compare his impact to Crosby's on the ice. Yet, Crosby was hardly the world beater the media made him out to be at the Olympics until he finally stepped up and scored the golden goal. I think if Canada had lost that game the narrative around him might not have been so rosey after the tournament.

I think how people view international tournaments towards players legacies also impacts how one views Toews. Some view them as crucial, others as glorified All Star games. Though for his detractors, many say this follows the pattern of being viewed as a winner when he was simply on a great team, one he might not have even been the best player on. Team Canada was the best team in a clear cut way even the Hawks weren't.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Toews scores two goals in 72 seconds

This thread caused me to look back on just how dominant Toews was during his prime, it was so hard to admit it as a Blues fan but the guy was the definition of clutch.

 

[Rengorlex]

Stamkos has had multiple deep playoff runs and every single time failed to be anything but a complimentary player.

 

[x Tame Impala]

That wasn't peak Stamkos. But either way, it was only his 2nd season in the league and he turned 20 basically when the Olympics started. Proves nothing.



Toews has hit 70+ pts 2x in his career. He's not a 70pt player, more like a 60pt player.



LMAOOOO yeah a guy who has never been a 1st AST, never been nominated for the hart or lindsay is better than guys who have swept the awards while putting up 30+ more pts than him. Peak Toews was a 60pt player. Matthews just put up 60 goals. Thanks for the laugh.

Is this sarcasm? Look at his PPG you mook

 

[ghostingtaro]

stamkos and its not even close

 

[CanadienShark]

Stamkos. He's got the Cups and Finals appearances the match up with Toews. His individual performances are far greater than Toews though. The only argument for Toews is international play, but that's more because of a lack of opportunity for Stamkos.

 

[Regal]

On a per 82 game rate, prime Toews (08/09-16/17) was a 31 goal/71 point player. If we were to translate his 2010-2015 playoff scoring rate to 82 games, he was a 26 goal/73 point scorer.

Peak Stamkos (09/10-12/13) was a 52 goal/95 point scorer per 82.

That’s only a 4 year period for Stamkos though. Toews during those same 4 years averaged 78 points per 82. Obviously there’s a gap, but it narrows. And the thing with Toews was that his ES scoring was among the best. During those same four years, he paced for 54 points per 82 at ES. Stamkos paced for 61. When combined with defense and possession, I’d say Toews was the better ES performer.

The biggest difference in their offense was on the PP, where obviously Stamkos was lethal with his shot. While that’s a big advantage, Toews’ points were likely hindered a bit on the PP due to a lesser role, and in general, teams who are strongest 5v5 tend to have more staying power than those who are more PP reliant. I’d say their regular season value in this time was likely still slightly in Stamkos’ favour, but not to the degree the point gap suggests. And with Stamkos not showing the ability to keep his scoring up in the playoffs despite multiple long runs, I have a hard time taking Stamkos for his peak. Though it would be interesting to see if things would have been different for that era Stamkos to be healthy and on the current Lightning team.

 

[Stammertime91]

Stamkos has had multiple deep playoff runs and every single time failed to be anything but a complimentary player.

Were you in a coma this postseason?

 

[Master P]

Lopsided result tbh.