Steve Yzerman Thread

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The tax thing is probably somewhat of a factor, but much further down the list than you guys are making it sound. These guys are competitively athletes getting paid a crazy amount of money to do the thing they love. They're probably not picking where they play based on their tax accountants advice.

And it's not as simple as multiplying the highest tax rate times their salary. For starters that's not how taxes are calculated. Then as was mentioned add in all the tax breaks. They likely have corporations they're paid through which gives them much greater tax advantages. Plus charitable foundations, and on and on.

Taxes only became a story with Stamkos because it became an often repeated reason why he stayed in Tampa, usually from fans of teams who hoped he'd sign with them. But it's extremely overblown. Otherwise no one would be signing in Canada, certainly not Montreal, and everyone would be clamoring to play for Texas and Florida.

 

[Shaman464]

Players do pay taxes. There are a few threads on BOH that break down the amounts and jock taxes, where relevant, by state or city.

However, if they are clever and get good accountants, they may be able to invest some maximum amount to avoid paying more. I think real estate is probably still the biggest tax break they can get.

What we cannot do is say Player X is not paying his legal amount of taxation.

And I never said that they weren't paying their legal amount. Trump, who has made hundreds of millions if not billions didn't LEGALLY have to pay any taxes. As I broke down multiple times, they don't pay their nominal tax rate, almost no one does. There is a reason why tax code is thousands of pages, and tax attorneys and accounts get paid as much as they do. And I stand by the idea that players, like most rich people, pay an effective tax rate as close to 0% as they can, legally, which makes the whole 'Michigan's 4% tax' argument a moot point. There are many other reasons why players choose to play or not play somewhere.

This is also common knowledge (if I were the one exposing something this pervasive in American society, I would be in line for a Pulitzer prize), so I am not in love with anyone implying that I am accusing anyone of anything illegal.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Yzerman is a good general manager, we'd be better off with him than Holland, and the dude has my complete and absolute respect and admiration.

 

[Fugu]

And I never said that they weren't paying their legal amount. Trump, who has made hundreds of millions if not billions didn't LEGALLY have to pay any taxes. As I broke down multiple times, they don't pay their nominal tax rate, almost no one does. There is a reason why tax code is thousands of pages, and tax attorneys and accounts get paid as much as they do. And I stand by the idea that players, like most rich people, pay an effective tax rate as close to 0% as they can, legally, which makes the whole 'Michigan's 4% tax' argument a moot point. There are many other reasons why players choose to play or not play somewhere.

This is also common knowledge (if I were the one exposing something this pervasive in American society, I would be in line for a Pulitzer prize), so I am not in love with anyone implying that I am accusing anyone of anything illegal.

Trump avoided taxes due to some interesting issues with the banks that actually held the notes for those properties.

Yes, rich people can avoid taxes, but keep income tax and capital gains tax separate in your mind, as the rates and conditions are indeed very different. The players are only getting income from their teams, so they can move some of that money in tax-free areas, up to a point, but they still have quite a bit of money that will go to the government. What they invest (and lose/gain) however will be taxed under different rates/conditions.

If you're really interested in this taxation stuff with NHL players, please look it up on the business board. A couple very good threads that look at these factors for players in the different states and provinces.

 

[Shaman464]

Trump avoided taxes due to some interesting issues with the banks that actually held the notes for those properties.

Yes, rich people can avoid taxes, but keep income tax and capital gains tax separate in your mind, as the rates and conditions are indeed very different. The players are only getting income from their teams, so they can move some of that money in tax-free areas, up to a point, but they still have quite a bit of money that will go to the government. What they invest (and lose/gain) however will be taxed under different rates/conditions.

If you're really interested in this taxation stuff with NHL players, please look it up on the business board. A couple very good threads that look at these factors for players in the different states and provinces.

Not particularly interested, have two uncles who are high level banking in the Detroit area, I know what I know about this topic. The fact of the matter remains that nominal tax rate is not equal to the effective tax rate. Things like the jock tax actually cause more grief for the traveling support staff than it does to the pro-athletes (I have a cousin who is an athletic trainer for the Lions), as they have less access to specialists who can help them minimize their burden. So, when it comes down to it, I would again reiterate my thesis: State income taxes are not a deterrent to playing for a team. If it were, then you would hear about this in Baseball and Football, players refusing to play with teams because of this. Players, by virtue of their wealth and status have better access to legal routes to minimize their effective tax rates to a bare minimum.

As for Trump, his money was not made exclusively from capital gains, and just from his TV appearances made more in 4 episodes of his TV show than any hockey player makes in a year. He definitely had an income. He was able to shelter his income from taxes through legal means having to do with claiming investment losses, charitable donations, and other such means.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Yzerman is a good general manager, we'd be better off with him than Holland, and the dude has my complete and absolute respect and admiration.

I was just thinking the other day that we're probably not far off from him being more known for his GM work than for his play.


Stevie was in the league of being a Crosby or McDavid level pick back in his day, became the superstar and leader of the Wings, took some horrific injuries, shifted gears and became a more defensive and complete player, did it with class all the way through. He then moved on into management and has become a success there. How many other players can you think of that have done that?

 

[Peter Tosh]

Should Steve Yzerman be offered the GM position this summer? Yes.
Would Steve Yzerman accept the offer? Probably.

One could view the years in Tampa as the learning years, but one could also argue that we never should have let hime go.

 

[Bench]

Would Steve Yzerman accept the offer? Probably.

I'd actually file that one closer to "No way."

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Should Steve Yzerman be offered the GM position this summer? Yes.
Would Steve Yzerman accept the offer? Probably.

One could view the years in Tampa as the learning years, but one could also argue that we never should have let hime go.

Holland has another year on his contract and Yzerman's goes through 2019. I don't see it happening.

 

[Retire91]

There isn't a realistic scenario where Yzerman becomes this GM next year