Step Back, Take a Deep Breath, and Look at the PA's Offer

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by RedWingsNow*, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    That was the gripe but now those teams are forced to spend that money on improving their club, not paying down debt or fielding crap teams. The NHL should do the same thing. Gary Bettman does not understand economics, I mean why on earth would he agree to a salary cap floor that was the same for Toronto as it was for Phoenix? Since we don't seem to have any issue with how each club reports revenue why not set a cap floor based on how much revenue that teams brings in? That way you are not ignoring economics 101 and don't force a team to spend more than they make. Add in that revenue sharing slice and you pretty much force any team that accepts revenue sharing to spend to a certain threshold based on their financials from the previous year.

    So simple even a caveman could do it. :laugh:
     
  2. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    Oh it was 100% complete sarcasm. If you look at how the last two CBAs worked out all you can really assume is the owners felt like they came out on the short end and had to lock the players out for a third straight time. The players liked the last CBA so much they were willing to play this season under it until a new one was agreed upon.

    The truth is that there are a few really bad franchises that are responsible for killing the league. If only Gary Bettman would serve the successful franchises as loyally as he's served franchises like Atlanta, Phoenix, Columbus and Florida.

    Here's hoping he really does die on that hill. :D
     
  3. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    If we are not going to get significant revenue sharing the writing is on the wall for the franchises that are killing the league. Just look at Atlanta. Lost insane amounts of money. Then they get moved to a market that will actually support an NHL franchise. Guess what happened? They made money! No limit on term! With the players receiving 57% of revenue.

    How on earth is that possible? ;)
     
  4. chances14

    chances14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    10,199
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    Michigan
    right.

    that's why the pirates are one of the most profitable teams in the league, mostly as a result of taking those revenue sharing checks, yet they have now posted 20 consecutive losing seasons. looks like they really put that money to good use.

    or how about the marlins trading away every player who was scheduled to make more than $1.6 million dollars in 2013. i guess the marlins believe that making your team better is to trade away all your players who happen to make the most money in return for scraps.
     
  5. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    It's incredibly easy to make sure teams spend any revenue sharing on salaries. For example:

    The only reason the Marlins exist is because of revenue sharing. It's been proven you can force teams to use any revenue sharing they receive on improving their club. Now imagine if they didn't receive revenue sharing but were part of a group that caused 3 lockouts and tried to force the entire league to develop an economic system that probably wouldn't save them anyway and as a result threatened the viability of the sport.

    That's what the NHL has been doing under Gary Bettman. :shakehead
     
  6. RedWingsNow*

    RedWingsNow* Guest

    Two words.
    Bad. Ownership.
     
  7. chances14

    chances14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    10,199
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    Michigan
    but as proven with the pirates, some teams have clearly not been forced to spend money to improve their team

    agreed.

    but i was just refuting the point that all mlb teams are being forced to spend money to improve their teams. that is not the case with the marlins or pirates owners who have clearly put profits over winning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  8. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    Again, that is an ownership issue, not a player's association/union issue. There are a lot of very bad owners in professional sports, unfortunately the NHL has a disproportionate amount who are going to ruin the league.
     
  9. TS Quint

    TS Quint Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    846
    Trophy Points:
    109
    I guess it's about having a healthy league. If you look at Forbes it's clearly not a healthy league. You can talk about the concessions the players are making but they are important to making this league healthy. You have 2 teams making up almost all of the profit. Yes the owners need to share more and I believe they have raised the amount of revenue sharing (could be a little more yet). A 5 year CBA is just stupid from a corperate revenue point of view. Are you really wanting to team up with the NHL if there is another chance for a strike in less than 5 years (4.5 years by now)?
     
  10. RedWingsNow*

    RedWingsNow* Guest

    So propose a CBA that systematically solves the problem.

    right now, it seems like the owners like have horrid markets in the league for no other reason than to cry poor.
     
  11. JackieTreehorn

    JackieTreehorn Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No team has spent more over the past four drafts than the Pirates' $48 million. That includes franchise-record bonuses for Pedro Alvarez ($6.35 million), Jameson Taillon ($6.5 million) and, of course, Cole.

    That total also includes the $5 million they spent on outfielder Josh Bell, who they chose with the top pick in the second round last season.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/...irates-grab-prize-at-mlb-draft/#ixzz2EWSE4Yqr

    MLB has agreed to let teams use revenue sharing for player development as opposed to FA signings.
     
  12. TS Quint

    TS Quint Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    846
    Trophy Points:
    109
    I would like to think the owners have proposed a system that solves the problem. I'm not sure about why they need to "die on a hill" over 5 year contracts if they have the 5% varience. I think the players are being reasonable on that point.

    I don't think St.Louis, New York, Columbus, Minnesota, Buffalo or Washington should count as horrid markets but they are loosing money.
     
  13. RedWingsNow*

    RedWingsNow* Guest

    The problem is that LINKAGE will force bad markets/badly run teams to lose money.

    The big markets are driving up revenue too fast for the bad markets to keep up. And as we move one horrid team to Quebec and a second team to the metro Toronto area, I think the revenue growth disparity problem will accelerate.

    So the NHL has created a system that forces teams to lose money because there is a cap floor tied to revenue growth.

    Why would they do this? Unless they wanted teams to lose money?
     
  14. Schroedingers Cat

    Schroedingers Cat Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,101
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    101
    The one thing re: Red Wings that amuses me about the lockout is how people were saying Holland did nothing over the summer to prepare for the fallout from the new CBA; i.e. amnesty buyouts, salary rollback, etc. etc.

    The NHL has already said it will not agree to amnesty buyouts, and there will probably be a salary rollback in addition to the lowered cap. Basically, the salary structure will remain the same, and teams will not be looking to buy out players. There will be no swooping in to grab good cheap players.

    So, we get a year of lockout and then a year of the Wings likely not making the playoffs to look forward to.
     
  15. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    23,385
    Likes Received:
    3,874
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    South Mountain
    Actually by all reports the NHL has been telling teams not to expect a salary rollback.
     
  16. TS Quint

    TS Quint Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    846
    Trophy Points:
    109
    No one expected the growth in revenue. The problem was they didn't tie revenue sharing in, it was a static number. But an increase in sharing which last I believe went up by 50 million by the owners should help to off set. Players asked for another 50 million on top of that which I think would be a great idea for the overall health of the league.

    Once they get this deal in place the price of a franchise will go up which will make it more profitable for the NHL to relocate teams like Pheonix and open new frachises in Quebec and Markham. Which the players won't see any of that money but they will have more jobs.
     
  17. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    Thanks for that. It is AMAZING how much NHL fans just gobble up whatever Gary Bettman spoon feeds them. The guy sure has a track record to be taken at his word, right? :shakehead The most recent example was denying the LA Kings were for sale. A few months later it came out that they are in fact for sale. :laugh:

    MLB has had no work stoppages for close to 20 years, unlike the NHL they engage in significant revenue sharing which keeps franchises that shouldn't exist afloat, and they force those teams to spend that money on improving their ballclub.

    So OF COURSE Donald Fehr is the bogeyman. ;)
     
  18. TS Quint

    TS Quint Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    846
    Trophy Points:
    109
    The NHLPA was clearly in the wrong last lockout. They sat out for how long just to get one of the most lopsided CBA's ever. Then you add in Fehr who is known for being a hardline negotiator who was willing to loose a World Series. I see it as reason for concern.

    I thought I heard somewhere that only 2 teams in baseball shared revenue last year. Not true?

    I haven't followed baseball for a while now so I'm not sure. But I'll start following next year now that the Jays look like they have a shot :handclap:
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  19. sepster

    sepster Gerard Gallant is my Spirit Animal

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    North of the 'D"
    Honestly, I believe the owners do realize they have won. I also believe that they have a cut-off date as to when they can fit in a 45 to 48 game schedule. They'll wait until that date in an attempt to squeeze as much out of the PA as possible. If the players move in their direction from here, then the owner's victory is even greater. If the player don't move, then the owners already have won this battle, they seal the deal by the cut-off date and start the season.

    Or the season is lost and there is irreparable damage done to the sport. In that case, American fans don't really care and the Canadian fans will come back regardless, so is the sport really that worse off? I doubt it.
     
  20. WingedWheel1987

    WingedWheel1987 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    13,027
    Likes Received:
    552
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    GPP Michigan
    A sub 50 game schedule is going to be awful. 20 games of warming up and the season is already half over.
     
  21. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Make Detroit Great Again

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12,411
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the Garage
    I am not a big baseball fan myself. Most of what I've found it is doing research. It is amazing how much NHL fans just parrot what Gary Bettman says. It is truly amazing. I mean, MLB hasn't had a work stoppage in 17 years! We're on our 3rd and I have no doubt we'll have a 4th when this one gets agreed upon and then expires.

    Here is a key piece from a MLB article on how revenue sharing has impacted the league:

    So at least 6 teams do, maybe more. And the great thing is when you give a team a handout you can demand they spend that money on improving their club, not to pay down debt or simply hold onto the money.

    I just laugh at people who try to suggest Donald Fehr is the problem. Like I said I have never followed baseball closely but I would gladly accept their CBA over anything Gary Bettman could come up with.

    The proof is in the pudding: two decades of labor peace or a third straight lockout with two lost seasons?
     
  22. InjuredChoker

    InjuredChoker Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    31,278
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    LTIR or golf course
    Much better than 0 game schedule, though.
     
  23. sarcastro

    sarcastro Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,059
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The PA's original proposals tried to deal with the actual problems facing the NHL.

    The NHL said "we're not interested in solving those problems, we just think you make too much money".

    There has not been and never will be an honest effort by ownership to properly fix the league. Rich owners like having poor teams to develop their talent for them and serve as their de-facto farm teams. The Wings are not excluded from that comment either.

    Much like the NFL, it's all about money. The NFL isn't suddenly acting all concerned about player safety because they're actually concerned about player safety. They're facing an enormous lawsuit from disabled ex-players and they want to try and avoid paying billions in settlements. They're going to end up ruining the sport over it, just to minimize their liability.
     
  24. TS Quint

    TS Quint Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    846
    Trophy Points:
    109
    The NHL has never been more balanced. 29 teams have made the playoffs over the last CBA (except the Leafs:laugh:). The 8th place team just won the Stanley Cup. Removing the long term/front loaded contracts and allowing teams to resign their own players for longer term will further level the playing field. The NHL is as competitive of a league as there is (if not the most competitive).
     
  25. sarcastro

    sarcastro Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,059
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But again, the issue is not on-ice competition but the fight for revenue. The Kings are not exactly the Yotes or the Preds or the Panthers we're talking about here. They're located in the 2nd most populous city in the US, so while they were 8th in the conference it wasn't because of their market. In fact, they were able to pick up the Carter and Richards megacontracts without a problem, something small market teams would not have been able to do.

    Whenever they end up reaching an agreement on a new CBA, it will be the owners (with help from the player agents) who find all the loopholes that they can use to get around any rules designed to stop them from losing money on stupid contractual decisions. Just like they did last time.

    That seems to be what ownership is looking for in terms of "fixes" - a system so locked-down that they can't possibly make bad decisions. It won't work, and the smart owners know it - they're just using the contractual issues as a lever to increase the owners' share of the revenue pie.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"