State of the Jackets
- Thread starter EspenK
- Start date
Torts comments dont speak volumes of Nick as a captain. The captain needs to be the glue,and it just doesnt seem like he's the guy for the job. I think Duby is the better fit for Torts
I still think it comes down to ownership, culture and lack of accountability all the way down.
What Hitch (in past) and Torts (now) have done is brought more accountability to players when they are on the ice.
Rest of it is having different guys picking up random players who fit whatever the current vision of the team is. Sometimes it's fixing problems, other times it's adding best available. But this isn't fantasy hockey, the back of the hockey card shouldn't matter as much as finding the right players to fit in what we want the team to be.
You can build from the net out or you can try to outscore your opponents. If you look at our team make-up it's a good goalie who is injury prone, and a bunch of forwards who can score goals when the have limited defensive responsibility. The a bunch of d-men who are (as a group) are among the worst in the league. So what is the vision of the team? Only thing that make sense is try to outscore the other team and hope Bob plays outstanding.
That's my $.02
What Hitch (in past) and Torts (now) have done is brought more accountability to players when they are on the ice.
Rest of it is having different guys picking up random players who fit whatever the current vision of the team is. Sometimes it's fixing problems, other times it's adding best available. But this isn't fantasy hockey, the back of the hockey card shouldn't matter as much as finding the right players to fit in what we want the team to be.
You can build from the net out or you can try to outscore your opponents. If you look at our team make-up it's a good goalie who is injury prone, and a bunch of forwards who can score goals when the have limited defensive responsibility. The a bunch of d-men who are (as a group) are among the worst in the league. So what is the vision of the team? Only thing that make sense is try to outscore the other team and hope Bob plays outstanding.
That's my $.02
Not to mention we have never had a successful GM before. We've always been the training wheels for GM's, DM, SH, JK, none of them were GM's before, let alone successful ones. JK is not going to be one. His contract management has been deplorable. We're the 2nd worst team in the league, and we're a cap team, unbelievable.
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HIFK of the 90's and Jokerit in 2010's. Build by who?
Its quite an egocentric view that only in the NHL you can learn to manage teams or play as a goalie. Is this the thinking that provides shortcuts to success then....
I personally think that while this season might have been lost in Tortorella there is a winning future ahead. Hopefully bit of a reforge is in the plans though before next season.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
This is always the interesting thing. As far back as 8-9 years ago people on this board were saying "the only thing that hasn't changed is the owner..." etc. Now, I realize that Mr. Mac has passed, so technically ownership has changed, too, but what's left?
This is a recurring thing except it doesn't account for the fact that Todd Richards is the most successful coach in team history. I'm no Richards booster - I think he's pretty meh - but ignores that much of the best hockey the team has ever played came with him as coach. Why that is I don't know.
What is the vision for this current team. What is its identity? What kind of team is it, or is it supposed to be?
Columbus Mike
2015-16 CBJ
- Feb 21, 2008
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If you change the name of the coach you could find statements like this since the CBJ started 15 seasons ago. Arguably we are worse now (30th place) than we were then. Ah, but there is always hope and next season, isn't there.
I would argue MacJR and JMAC are very similar. They are not hands on (which is usually a good thing for owners), and trust other people to run their franchise (at least MacJR actually has tried to hire more hockey guys instead of salesmen and bean counters).
Todd Richards had more talent than any other CBJ coach. Also how does that account for OT points, is that taken into account? Again just based on stats Richards is the tallest dwarf, not a good NHL coach.
That's the million dollar question - what are we trying to build? It wasn't too long ago after the first playoff appearance that management was touting Hitch and that his way was the way we would play. Then after the players revolted they dumped hitch. That told me that ownership bought into hitch when he was winning, but then agreed with Brassard that we could simply outscore people. If management believed we need to be defensively responsible, big, hit hard, and be opportunistic offensively then Brassard and company would have been told to "Man Up". Instead Hitch was fired, the team continued to suck and all those players were traded any ways.
The lack of upgrading the blue line is glaring. Well, it was more so early in the season. They are playing...ok...more recently.
We were told health would bring the CBJ back to winning ways of '13-'14. They have remained mostly healthy (at least no big players until Bob missing significant time).
Wtf is Wennberg still doing here. Karlsson, Chaput, Rychel, Anderson - all probably more "NHL-ready" right now. Send Wennberg down for some time in Cleveland.
The contracts GMJK have handed out are ridiculous. Foligno at $5.5? Dubi at $5.85? Saad at $6? Savard at $4.25? Sergei "I always have a groin injury" Bobrovsky at $7.425? That's so much wasted money. Not that they aren't good players, but we're overpaying massively (and with some fancy NMC/NTC's to boot) for guys who are not producing at their AAV level. I only include Bob because he always gets injured. Boll at $1.7 and Campbell at anything more than the minimum (he's at $1.5) is also ridiculous but they have less of an impact overall.
They've gutted the 4th line of 2 years ago when it was Dmac, Letestu, and Comeau. That was a 4th line you could play 10 mins a night and not have to shelter. You could trust two of those guys in the dot and on the PK. Now, the 4th line is essentially a sheltered wasteland and perhaps the most expensive 4th line ever constructed.
How much are we ****ing spending on forwards? Most in the league? 2nd most? We're near the bottom of the league (25th) in goals scored per game.
What the **** did this team do in training camp and preseason?
We were told health would bring the CBJ back to winning ways of '13-'14. They have remained mostly healthy (at least no big players until Bob missing significant time).
Wtf is Wennberg still doing here. Karlsson, Chaput, Rychel, Anderson - all probably more "NHL-ready" right now. Send Wennberg down for some time in Cleveland.
The contracts GMJK have handed out are ridiculous. Foligno at $5.5? Dubi at $5.85? Saad at $6? Savard at $4.25? Sergei "I always have a groin injury" Bobrovsky at $7.425? That's so much wasted money. Not that they aren't good players, but we're overpaying massively (and with some fancy NMC/NTC's to boot) for guys who are not producing at their AAV level. I only include Bob because he always gets injured. Boll at $1.7 and Campbell at anything more than the minimum (he's at $1.5) is also ridiculous but they have less of an impact overall.
They've gutted the 4th line of 2 years ago when it was Dmac, Letestu, and Comeau. That was a 4th line you could play 10 mins a night and not have to shelter. You could trust two of those guys in the dot and on the PK. Now, the 4th line is essentially a sheltered wasteland and perhaps the most expensive 4th line ever constructed.
How much are we ****ing spending on forwards? Most in the league? 2nd most? We're near the bottom of the league (25th) in goals scored per game.
What the **** did this team do in training camp and preseason?
Through 15 home games the Jackets have 11 points. 11 out of a possible 30. That horrendous winning percentage (~36%) is on pace to shatter the worst home record ever at NWA (~45% winning percentage). Attendance is down over 1K fans/game from last season. Shocker...you suck at home and people stop paying to see a crap product on the ice.
Attendance is on pace to be the 2nd worst ever in team history - rivaled only by 2010-2011. Keep losing and they'll probably set the new mark.
Attendance is on pace to be the 2nd worst ever in team history - rivaled only by 2010-2011. Keep losing and they'll probably set the new mark.
The Jackets are not in a good place right now, but it's not as dire as some make it out to be.
Since Torts arrived, the team has generally played tighter games, and rarely been blown out. I think he's a perfect coach for what the Jackets need at this point - a guy who demands accountability and eschews excuses.
The blueliners are still below grade, but I really do think the forwards are pretty good.......just gripping the sticks too tight. There's decent talent down at the AHL level too. Jackets need to make some trades and upgrade the defensemen, and unfortunately some good pieces will be on their way out (Cam very likely, possibly Hartnell, maybe Joey?).
The 0-8 start absolutely killed the psyche of this team and it shows in their lack of confidence on the ice.
Since Torts arrived, the team has generally played tighter games, and rarely been blown out. I think he's a perfect coach for what the Jackets need at this point - a guy who demands accountability and eschews excuses.
The blueliners are still below grade, but I really do think the forwards are pretty good.......just gripping the sticks too tight. There's decent talent down at the AHL level too. Jackets need to make some trades and upgrade the defensemen, and unfortunately some good pieces will be on their way out (Cam very likely, possibly Hartnell, maybe Joey?).
The 0-8 start absolutely killed the psyche of this team and it shows in their lack of confidence on the ice.
Actually the late goal that tied the Rangers opening night destroyed the psyche of this team. The Rangers followed that up with two more quick goals against a very mentally fragile BoB to win the game and the entire team and fan base new what was coming next for the upcoming games.
Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
- 9,253
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At this point, you have to treat the winning streaks last year as a flash in the pan.
What kind of team is Jarmo trying to put together? He's trying to make them hard to play against, but the skill level just isn't there. I don't think this team has very much speed. They were complacent in the off-season in improving the defense. But the problem isn't just the defense -- it's the offense too.
I think you have to trade anyone who nets you a great offer this deadline.
I would also like to add, I am glass half-empty when it comes to the CBJ organization
What kind of team is Jarmo trying to put together? He's trying to make them hard to play against, but the skill level just isn't there. I don't think this team has very much speed. They were complacent in the off-season in improving the defense. But the problem isn't just the defense -- it's the offense too.
I think you have to trade anyone who nets you a great offer this deadline.
I would also like to add, I am glass half-empty when it comes to the CBJ organization
213 Sentinel
Registered User
This is really worth a read if there are those here who have not yet seen it.
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/this-weeks-blue-jackets-chat.html
Salient points:
"Did management make mistakes with this club? Easy to say now, but you can only say yes, given the payroll and the standings. If those are so far out of whack it isn't funny."
"Maybe this team isn't good enough to win the Stanley Cup. That takes a special mix of talent and personalities. But they damn sure should be competitive in this league, and they should certainly compete most nights. Hockey is a fluky sport. You win 20 games and lose 20 games no matter what; it's the other 42 that separate the best. Why this club is so far below competitive on so many nights is stunning. To season-ticket holders and fans it's appalling. I don't foresee a 2-3 rebuild again, no. But brick-by-brick was a misnomer. Most of these bricks were already here. The wall hasn't been built correctly, clearly."
"This club has been outworked, probably, in half of its games this season. I think back to the end-of-last-season press conference when Blue Jackets management -- Davidson and Kekalainen -- showered the roster with praise, saying they didn't have to do much, just get healthy. I really believe that attitude set in with the players. Then they had a don't-get-hurt mentality in training camp and when the regular season started, they got jumped. Our Michael Arace took them to task last summer, and drew the ire from many in the organization. But it turns out he was right to be suspicious. This collection of players, this group of management, hasn't proven anything yet."
"There's no lack of fan support. The fan support is there. I don't question it. I don't ever blame the fans. The suggestion with the question is that the Blue Jackets deserve a packed house every night. What's the home record? Where have some of their worst games been played? You charge that much for tickets you damn sure better entertain the masses. Can't be wins every game. Only minor-league football fans expect that. But you'd better enthrall the masses with your energy and compete level, with only the odd mulligan here and there. Look at some of the sparse crowds even in Canadian cities. Not the announced crowds, but the actual crowds. Look at Chicago before they were drafted Kane and Toews. Look at Pittsburgh whenever they don't have marquee players on the roster. Look anywhere south of the border and tell me what city, after 15 years of almost complete, chronic losing, fills a building. This team isn't moving. When they finally join the NHL and become a competitive franchise, they'll be delighted to call Columbus home. It will be one of the crown jewels of the NHL. But no marketing slogan, ticket-package sales job, no commercial can get past the most basic marketing tool in the bag, the one they've rarely put to use: winning."
One of more worthwhile transcripts I've read in recent memory.
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/this-weeks-blue-jackets-chat.html
Salient points:
"Did management make mistakes with this club? Easy to say now, but you can only say yes, given the payroll and the standings. If those are so far out of whack it isn't funny."
"Maybe this team isn't good enough to win the Stanley Cup. That takes a special mix of talent and personalities. But they damn sure should be competitive in this league, and they should certainly compete most nights. Hockey is a fluky sport. You win 20 games and lose 20 games no matter what; it's the other 42 that separate the best. Why this club is so far below competitive on so many nights is stunning. To season-ticket holders and fans it's appalling. I don't foresee a 2-3 rebuild again, no. But brick-by-brick was a misnomer. Most of these bricks were already here. The wall hasn't been built correctly, clearly."
"This club has been outworked, probably, in half of its games this season. I think back to the end-of-last-season press conference when Blue Jackets management -- Davidson and Kekalainen -- showered the roster with praise, saying they didn't have to do much, just get healthy. I really believe that attitude set in with the players. Then they had a don't-get-hurt mentality in training camp and when the regular season started, they got jumped. Our Michael Arace took them to task last summer, and drew the ire from many in the organization. But it turns out he was right to be suspicious. This collection of players, this group of management, hasn't proven anything yet."
"There's no lack of fan support. The fan support is there. I don't question it. I don't ever blame the fans. The suggestion with the question is that the Blue Jackets deserve a packed house every night. What's the home record? Where have some of their worst games been played? You charge that much for tickets you damn sure better entertain the masses. Can't be wins every game. Only minor-league football fans expect that. But you'd better enthrall the masses with your energy and compete level, with only the odd mulligan here and there. Look at some of the sparse crowds even in Canadian cities. Not the announced crowds, but the actual crowds. Look at Chicago before they were drafted Kane and Toews. Look at Pittsburgh whenever they don't have marquee players on the roster. Look anywhere south of the border and tell me what city, after 15 years of almost complete, chronic losing, fills a building. This team isn't moving. When they finally join the NHL and become a competitive franchise, they'll be delighted to call Columbus home. It will be one of the crown jewels of the NHL. But no marketing slogan, ticket-package sales job, no commercial can get past the most basic marketing tool in the bag, the one they've rarely put to use: winning."
One of more worthwhile transcripts I've read in recent memory.
I'll sum this up.
This team hasn't been coached well for a few years. I know Richards was a good locker room/player coach. He, as far as I can tell, was never that great of an x's/o's kind of guy. Over the years I illustrated his many misgivings, much to the disbelief of some around here.
I see differences already. I agree with Torts in that this is going to take a while to turn this around. I think we're making strides defensively even if we still shoot ourselves in the foot repeatedly. We are start to get more and more offensive zone time, too bad it's not translating into significantly more prime scoring chances.
Guys like Calvert and Atkinson are starting to shine a bit more. Torts has said he wants the game quicker. These two can play at that speed with skill. Sadly it leads to some poor decisions like Wennberg made last night. I know we're down on him, but I'm liking his play more and more.
What's interesting to me is that our 4th line has been pretty effective the last couple of games. They are a nice change of pace and it's the best I've seen Clarkson since he got here.
Our defense is going to be an issue until we get rid of a couple (well maybe 3 or 4) of players and have another one or two play less minutes. I think #4 can become a really effective player for us as a 5/6. I think Golo has a future. I think time has caught up with Tyutin. One thing that I have noticed is that, while he still has some challenges, Savard is not nearly as dumb this season. I'm actually ok with his play. Still don't think he's a 1/2, but at least he's playing serviceable. Only real issue I have with JJ is consistent play, I'd like to see him settle into a 3/4 role here. I think Murray is slowly developing, but those injuries really screwed with his development. Despite some of the negatives I saw last night, I think he's the best defensive puck mover on this team by a mile. Like all young guys his decision making can improve.
I'm not upset with the forwards, we'll just need to move one or two to make room for guys like Rychel. I really like Karlsson in the bottom six, what a bright spot. I no longer want to move Atkinson, I think he's making some strides this season. His turning into something more than just a transition player. Outside of Bourque and Boll, not sure where/how we free up roster spots.
JK really should have dumped Richards when he was hired. Richards over achieved and made it difficult to get rid of him setting the team back.
I know a few people don't like Torts personality. That's fine, he's a shelf life coach. Having said that he actually can see issues and knows how he wants to go about correcting it. I've seen some of his coaching in practices starting to show up on the ice. It's a slow process, but I'm content with the progress. It's a dead season, I'm not going to ride the roller coaster of angst with some of you.
Yes we suck right now. But it's a roster that can turn things around quickly. We have quality players.
This team hasn't been coached well for a few years. I know Richards was a good locker room/player coach. He, as far as I can tell, was never that great of an x's/o's kind of guy. Over the years I illustrated his many misgivings, much to the disbelief of some around here.
I see differences already. I agree with Torts in that this is going to take a while to turn this around. I think we're making strides defensively even if we still shoot ourselves in the foot repeatedly. We are start to get more and more offensive zone time, too bad it's not translating into significantly more prime scoring chances.
Guys like Calvert and Atkinson are starting to shine a bit more. Torts has said he wants the game quicker. These two can play at that speed with skill. Sadly it leads to some poor decisions like Wennberg made last night. I know we're down on him, but I'm liking his play more and more.
What's interesting to me is that our 4th line has been pretty effective the last couple of games. They are a nice change of pace and it's the best I've seen Clarkson since he got here.
Our defense is going to be an issue until we get rid of a couple (well maybe 3 or 4) of players and have another one or two play less minutes. I think #4 can become a really effective player for us as a 5/6. I think Golo has a future. I think time has caught up with Tyutin. One thing that I have noticed is that, while he still has some challenges, Savard is not nearly as dumb this season. I'm actually ok with his play. Still don't think he's a 1/2, but at least he's playing serviceable. Only real issue I have with JJ is consistent play, I'd like to see him settle into a 3/4 role here. I think Murray is slowly developing, but those injuries really screwed with his development. Despite some of the negatives I saw last night, I think he's the best defensive puck mover on this team by a mile. Like all young guys his decision making can improve.
I'm not upset with the forwards, we'll just need to move one or two to make room for guys like Rychel. I really like Karlsson in the bottom six, what a bright spot. I no longer want to move Atkinson, I think he's making some strides this season. His turning into something more than just a transition player. Outside of Bourque and Boll, not sure where/how we free up roster spots.
JK really should have dumped Richards when he was hired. Richards over achieved and made it difficult to get rid of him setting the team back.
I know a few people don't like Torts personality. That's fine, he's a shelf life coach. Having said that he actually can see issues and knows how he wants to go about correcting it. I've seen some of his coaching in practices starting to show up on the ice. It's a slow process, but I'm content with the progress. It's a dead season, I'm not going to ride the roller coaster of angst with some of you.
Yes we suck right now. But it's a roster that can turn things around quickly. We have quality players.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
I agree with the comments here that the O players, for the most part, are going to be OK. I do expect some changes, though. But, I think Johan will be fine. Guys like him go through these things when they are young. I think Foligno needs to sit down and watch film of what made him successful last season. I just don't think he is doing the same things this season.
The big changes, though, need to be made to the D. That was an eye opener when Torts talked about how poorly our D has contributed to scoring, and how things really start at the D. They have not contributed practically at all. Fixing the D in and of itself will take time.
The big changes, though, need to be made to the D. That was an eye opener when Torts talked about how poorly our D has contributed to scoring, and how things really start at the D. They have not contributed practically at all. Fixing the D in and of itself will take time.
Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
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Is there another example of a team who had a substantial amount of hype for the season but fell astoundingly short of expectations? How did they respond in that season and the following seasons?
Just look back over the years of the Rangers spending to the cap and falling on their faces. That was an enjoyable time.
Having said that, I don't really find the question all that relevant. All teams are different and I don't think you are going to get a lot of trying to draw some parallel. It might just take this thread into a bad tangent.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
- 9,253
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Sigh...that was not my intention
I didn't really pay much attention to the Jackets then.
Do we really have quality players if we're dead last in the league with the most games played? 25th in goals scored and 25th in goals allowed, and Bob has only missed a few games. Most other major contributors have not been injured, which was last year's excuse.
On some of the above points - Calvert is a career 20 point guy. He's on pace for 13 this year. I keep hearing about this skill and if he can finish some chances, then watch out. No. He's a tweener. I love his hustle and PK ability. I just think he gets lost in the fray too much and I don't know if he has a well-defined role on this roster.
Cam is improving yes - he may actually (finally) break 40 points. He's still a tweener as well. Do you play him on the first line? 3rd line? Best shooting % of his career, but he turns 27 this summer. About to regress if he follows the norm. Like Calvert, "if he could just finish those chances...." Still like him, just not sure about the $3.5m cap hit. Always thrown out in trade proposals for some reason. Weak on the right side though, so I just talked myself into him staying while typing all that.
Golo - yes. A quiet, steady right hander. What this D needs. No idea why he was thought of as #7/8 guy for so long. Wayyyy ahead of Prout and others on the depth chart in my view. Wouldn't mind him as a 3/4 going forward if he continues to play well with more minutes.
Agree on Tyutin. Disagree on Connauton. I think he had the classic "new team" bump and has regressed to being a #7/AHLer. Don't really care if he stays or goes.
Agree on Bourque (maybe a TDL dump but probably walks/retires in the offseason). Agree on Boll but not sure management will admit they screwed that one up. Still $1.7 m for another season, so not sure they can move him unless they eat the cap hit (part of it) and bury him in Cleveland. Or Evansville....kidding on the Evansville part.
The forwards are bad. 25th in scoring as I mentioned at 2.3/game. Outside of Jenner, Hartnell, and Atkinson pretty much everyone is underperforming or has underperformed for long stretches. Saad has 1 goal in his last 13 games. Calvy and Karlsson both have 5 points each. Wennberg has 1-5-6. Campbell is just bad. Foligno has regressed big time and will struggle to get over 40 points. The issue is no scoring depth. It's about 5 guys at the top and they're not getting much scoring from the bottom of the roster (or the D for that matter). And this is 32 games in now.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,621
- 4,188
I like blah's assessment a few posts up.
I would add that I think we are missing that one or two guys up front who are proven scorers. Think Perry, Kane, Ovechkin- not necessarily have to be that level but we have no one even close. Maybe Bjorkstrand and Milano develop into that kind of a player but I'd take the under on both of them being big time scorers. One hopefully. Rychel is another banger type who could score 35 some season but probably shouldn't be counted on for more than 20 at most. Think Hartnell like for his min max.
I think Werenski adds to the D eventually and I see the rest of the young guys getting better. Still wouldn't mind getting a top offensive minded guy who can play defense also.
Our problem lately for the most part has been no offense. And its not just because the D can't get the puck out of the zone quickly enough or that the D doesn't have good offensive capabilities. I see a lot of old time Jacket kick it around the boards for awhile then lose it offense.
I would add that I think we are missing that one or two guys up front who are proven scorers. Think Perry, Kane, Ovechkin- not necessarily have to be that level but we have no one even close. Maybe Bjorkstrand and Milano develop into that kind of a player but I'd take the under on both of them being big time scorers. One hopefully. Rychel is another banger type who could score 35 some season but probably shouldn't be counted on for more than 20 at most. Think Hartnell like for his min max.
I think Werenski adds to the D eventually and I see the rest of the young guys getting better. Still wouldn't mind getting a top offensive minded guy who can play defense also.
Our problem lately for the most part has been no offense. And its not just because the D can't get the puck out of the zone quickly enough or that the D doesn't have good offensive capabilities. I see a lot of old time Jacket kick it around the boards for awhile then lose it offense.
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