Series Talk: Stanley Cup Playoffs 2024

[henchman21]

For the record, I tend to lean closer to your viewpoint on this topic. If the league heads and PA don’t have a problem with it, it is what it is.

But I don’t think there’s nuance at all to either of these circumstances. Landy has missed well over a year of hockey, it doesn’t matter when he comes back, that’s as legit a justified LTIR example as you can get. The same is not true for stone, multiple years of missing time but back for game 1. The just are not comparables imo.

I'm saying that the exact circumstance is something only those of us who care enough to post here really pay attention to.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

If the Avs make it to round 2, he will play. May not be game 1, but he will.

I hope you’re right, I’d love to see it!

 

[henchman21]

Like a lot of shady things in life, Vegas and its injuries are shady.

Do we have proof they are falsifying? No. We also don't have proof these injuries are what they claim.

End of the day result is the same, but the conspiracy theorist in me absolutely believes Vegas falsifies medical reports.

Which is fine as long as we acknowledge it is the conspiracy theorist side.

 

[S E P H]

It wasn't a group medical study, but how two AHL players both got lacerated spleens and were able to return in 2 months with no negative impacts. Basically saying the recommendation is to scan at 8 weeks or 6 week post symptoms to see if it has healed. It is entirely possible that Stone had the injury and recovered in the time he was out.

Stone absolutely had the injury, you can't make that up, but it wasn't as severe or dangerous as "3 to 6 months" as Vegas made it out to be. He probably could have come back during the regular season as you don't start game 1 with an injury that is healed overnight, but they decided to take the final scans to perfectly line up with the start of playoffs. Doctors have trouble because they have to believe and take their patient's illnesses and pain seriously, that's why so many people fake joint pain to get green cards. More often than not, you either have the pain or you have somatic symptom disorders' if you are not faking.

Interesting side note, people who have splenectomies actually live less on average than people who do not ever require it. As it is a major organ of the immune system, they are more prone to infections and those can be deadly later on in life.

 

[henchman21]

Stone absolutely had the injury, you can't make that up, but it wasn't as severe or dangerous as "3 to 6 months" as Vegas made it out to be. He probably could have come back during the regular season as you don't start game 1 with an injury that is healed overnight, but they decided to take the final scans to perfectly line up with the start of playoffs. Doctors have trouble because they have to believe and take their patient's illnesses and pain seriously, that's why so many people fake joint pain to get green cards. More often than not, you either have the pain or you have somatic symptom disorders' if you are not faking.

Interesting side note, people who have splenectomies actually live less on average than people who do not ever require it. As it is a major organ of the immune system, they are more prone to infections and those can be deadly later on in life.

I 100% believe that and they 100% waited to clear until the end of the regular season.

 

[Avsfan1921]

I'm saying that the exact circumstance is something only those of us who care enough to post here really pay attention to.

When you have hockey panelists discussing it on national broadcasts that don’t even involve that team, I’m not sure I agree with this statement. Of course we are the vocal minority but I’m sure casual fans are annoyed as well. Just because you don’t follow things closely doesn’t mean people are ignorant to the issue or agree with it, they just aren’t committed enough to make a stink. Goes for everything in life and this is no exception.

 

[Chiarelli]

It wasn't a group medical study, but how two AHL players both got lacerated spleens and were able to return in 2 months with no negative impacts. Basically saying the recommendation is to scan at 8 weeks or 6 week post symptoms to see if it has healed. It is entirely possible that Stone had the injury and recovered in the time he was out.

It was inconclusive, required more studies, and were direct quote “unique” cases.

 

[S E P H]

For as bad as Georgiev has been this season and postseason, I suggest Talbot has been worse. Some of those goals in both games for the Oilers were brutal, but especially yesterday. On one of the goals that allowed the Oilers to tie the game, Cam is literally moving to the right before the bloke even shoots the puck and of course, he shoots it left towards the open net.

 

[dahrougem2]

For as bad as Georgiev has been this season and postseason, I suggest Talbot has been worse. Some of those goals in both games for the Oilers were brutal, but especially yesterday. On one of the goals that allowed the Oilers to tie the game, Cam is literally moving to the right before the bloke even shoots the puck and of course, he shoots it left towards the open net.

Talbot stinks. He is also a huge reason Edmonton didn't have 7 goals at the end of two periods. Jekyll and hyde with him.

 

[Muffin]

Which is fine as long as we acknowledge it is the conspiracy theorist side.

I mean the sketchy thing is Stone is always conveniently healthy game 1 of the playoffs. At least Landeskog wasn't healthy for game 1.

 

[Chiarelli]

For as bad as Georgiev has been this season and postseason, I suggest Talbot has been worse. Some of those goals in both games for the Oilers were brutal, but especially yesterday. On one of the goals that allowed the Oilers to tie the game, Cam is literally moving to the right before the bloke even shoots the puck and of course, he shoots it left towards the open net.

Talbot is about the same talent but also almost 10 years older too. Makes sense

 

[LOFIN]

I 100% believe that and they 100% waited to clear until the end of the regular season.

The PA would never accept this in a negotiation, but here's an idea: if you are not fit to play in the last week of the regular season (or just the last game, whatever), you are not eligible to play in round one.

 

[Ceremony]

I guess we're learning where henchy's knowledge of NHL administration comes from.

 

[Bender]

The PA would never accept this in a negotiation, but here's an idea: if you are not fit to play in the last week of the regular season (or just the last game, whatever), you are not eligible to play in round one.

How about you can still play but don't 'get' to wear equipment?

 

[henchman21]

When you have hockey panelists discussing it on national broadcasts that don’t even involve that team, I’m not sure I agree with this statement. Of course we are the vocal minority but I’m sure casual fans are annoyed as well. Just because you don’t follow things closely doesn’t mean people are ignorant to the issue or agree with it, they just aren’t committed enough to make a stink. Goes for everything in life and this is no exception.

It is a story and something to talk about. Just like Kucherov was a story and something to talk about. At this point, no one is cares about that besides people dedicated enough to waste time.

It was inconclusive, required more studies, and were direct quote “unique” cases.

And Stone could be a "unique" case. Those cases do show that the timeline that Stone had was not way outside the realm possibility. It is much more likely that Stone recovered in ~9 weeks vs Vegas making this whole thing up.

The PA would never accept this in a negotiation, but here's an idea: if you are not fit to play in the last week of the regular season (or just the last game, whatever), you are not eligible to play in round one.

Finding the right fix is tough. There has to be something out there, but the PA signing off is going to be difficult. Because no matter what, you're changing player's rights and potentially medical treatment. Until parties really care to fix it though, there will be nothing done. That is the crux.

I mean the sketchy thing is Stone is always conveniently healthy game 1 of the playoffs. At least Landeskog wasn't healthy for game 1.

I would argue more that he was healthy a week or more prior to the end of the season and could have been cleared. I would buy into that theory more than anything else. The spleen injury was just 'luck' more that timing when the injury happened. His back issues and surgeries... those were very clearly timed.

 

[MacKaRant]

The PA would never accept this in a negotiation, but here's an idea: if you are not fit to play in the last week of the regular season (or just the last game, whatever), you are not eligible to play in round one.

I think something like this is the way. If you are on LTIR at the end of the regular season (keep in mind that teams don't need to place injured players on LTIR, but only do so for cap reasons), you cannot play in the first X games of the playoffs. Teams would need to plan to have cap space to reactivate their players from LTIR before the end of the regular season or risk missing them for the first few games of the playoffs.

There is already a rule that if you miss the all star game through injury, you need to miss a regular season game immediately before or after. And this is just for a fake game needed for marketing purposes! Why not a similar rule for LTIR and playoffs when the competitive integrity of the league is at stake?

 

[Chiarelli]

And Stone could be a "unique" case. Those cases do show that the timeline that Stone had was not way outside the realm possibility. It is much more likely that Stone recovered in ~9 weeks vs Vegas making this whole thing up.

I'm not suggesting it was made up. Some games were certainly played.

 

[henchman21]

I'm not suggesting it was made up. Some games were certainly played.

Fair enough and I'd agree with that. I'm certain they didn't set up their 'clearing' scan until April 19th.

I think something like this is the way. If you are on LTIR at the end of the regular season (keep in mind that teams don't need to place injured players on LTIR, but only do so for cap reasons), you cannot play in the first X games of the playoffs. Teams would need to plan to have cap space to reactivate their players from LTIR before the end of the regular season or risk missing them for the first few games of the playoffs.

There is already a rule that if you miss the all star game through injury, you need to miss a regular season game immediately before or after. And this is just for a fake game needed for marketing purposes! Why not a similar rule for LTIR and playoffs when the competitive integrity of the league is at stake?

It is simply because players actually care about the playoffs. They are fine missing regular season games, but saying a player has to miss __ playoff games when there are only so many chances at a Cup... the players simply won't agree to that. It is a non starter for them. Just the same as it is a non starter for GMs.

 

[LOFIN]

It is simply because players actually care about the playoffs. They are fine missing regular season games, but saying a player has to miss __ playoff games when there are only so many chances at a Cup... the players simply won't agree to that. It is a non starter for them. Just the same as it is a non starter for GMs.

In a sense, yes. It would seem unfair to basically "force" players to play in the last RS game if they are trying to get healthy, to be eligeble for the playoffs.

But what @MacKaRant said is right: you don't actually have to play to make this work. Just need to come off the LTIR. If a player feels he's still not ready to play then fine, sit him in the pressbox. But you have to activate him before the RS ends.

You have to be cap compliant before the season starts after having the luxury of being over the cap by certain presentage during the off-season. Just make it so that you have to be cap compliant on the last day of the regular season for RD1. Et voilà, this basically fixes what most people have issue with.

 

[EdAVSfan]

In a sense, yes. It would seem unfair to basically "force" players to play in the last RS game if they are trying to get healthy, to be eligeble for the playoffs.

But what @MacKaRant said is right: you don't actually have to play to make this work. Just need to come off the LTIR. If a player feels he's still not ready to play then fine, sit him in the pressbox. But you have to activate him before the RS ends.

You have to be cap compliant before the season starts after having the luxury of being over the cap by certain presentage during the off-season. Just make it so that you have to be cap compliant on the last day of the regular season for RD1. Et voilà, this basically fixes what most people have issue with.

To be clear, under your example, Landeskog would be forced to miss the 1st round?

 

[LOFIN]

To be clear, under your example, Landeskog would be forced to miss the 1st round?

Yes, he would.

 

[henchman21]

In a sense, yes. It would seem unfair to basically "force" players to play in the last RS game if they are trying to get healthy, to be eligeble for the playoffs.

But what @MacKaRant said is right: you don't actually have to play to make this work. Just need to come off the LTIR. If a player feels he's still not ready to play then fine, sit him in the pressbox. But you have to activate him before the RS ends.

You have to be cap compliant before the season starts after having the luxury of being over the cap by certain presentage during the off-season. Just make it so that you have to be cap compliant on the last day of the regular season for RD1. Et voilà, this basically fixes what most people have issue with.

Playing this out:

At team with a 20 man roster is within pennies of the cap after the deadline. So they playing the minimum 12F-6D-2G to even make it through. One of the players gets hurts with a ~4 week injury after the deadline. Looks like they can be back for the playoff, but end of the regular season isn't going to happen. They have to call up a player and utilize LTIR to make that happen. On the last game of the season, you'd be forcing that team to play a skater short because of this rule. It isn't unrealistic for that final game to have playoff implications and hurting that team's chances at seeding or getting in. Then you have the whole missing ~2 more weeks if you don't make that move.

I just can't see the players or GMs being willing to take that risk and have that as an acceptable solution.

 

[The Moops]

Playing this out:

At team with a 20 man roster is within pennies of the cap after the deadline. So they playing the minimum 12F-6D-2G to even make it through. One of the players gets hurts with a ~4 week injury after the deadline. Looks like they can be back for the playoff, but end of the regular season isn't going to happen. They have to call up a player and utilize LTIR to make that happen. On the last game of the season, you'd be forcing that team to play a skater short because of this rule. It isn't unrealistic for that final game to have playoff implications and hurting that team's chances at seeding or getting in. Then you have the whole missing ~2 more weeks if you don't make that move.

I just can't see the players or GMs being willing to take that risk and have that as an acceptable solution.

Sure, but then you'd have to make the rule that the team on the ice in the playoffs has to be cap compliant then. This shit is going to have to end at some point. You can't have a team pull this shit constantly and so blatantly that isn't not going to get patched

 

[LOFIN]

Playing this out:

At team with a 20 man roster is within pennies of the cap after the deadline. So they playing the minimum 12F-6D-2G to even make it through. One of the players gets hurts with a ~4 week injury after the deadline. Looks like they can be back for the playoff, but end of the regular season isn't going to happen. They have to call up a player and utilize LTIR to make that happen. On the last game of the season, you'd be forcing that team to play a skater short because of this rule. It isn't unrealistic for that final game to have playoff implications and hurting that team's chances at seeding or getting in. Then you have the whole missing ~2 more weeks if you don't make that move.

I just can't see the players or GMs being willing to take that risk and have that as an acceptable solution.

I mean I said it from the start, highly unlikely that the players would ever accept that.

So let's just make it simple: salary cap is in full effect all throughout the playoffs.

 

[Bender]

Why don't they just make it so that the salary cap that COUNTS during the entire season STILL COUNTS during the playoffs ?

Never really understood why it didn't.