Prospect Info: St. Louis Blues Prospect Ranking #4

[EastonBlues22]

1) Allen 53%
2) Fabbri 45%
3) Jaskin 39%

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[EastonBlues22]

Still Barbashev for me.

 

[Celtic Note]

Rattie, then Barbashev and Schmaltz.

 

[LGB51]

Barbashev in a landslide!

 

[Majorityof1]

I've voted Barbashev the last 2 polls. Nothing's changed. So I still vote for him. I have a feeling, I'll be voting for him again next poll after Rattie wins this one.

 

[CoMoBlues]

Voted Rattie here and at #3, he deserves to be in the top 5 at least

 

[Celtic Note]

I think the top 5 are all pretty interchangeable but Allen is almost beyond prospect status given how long he has been marinating.

 

[542365]

This poll is going to be interesting. Still Barbashev for me though.

 

[BlueDream]

Rattie easily.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Tough decision for me here. I'm not sold on Rattie. Barbashev has all the tools to be a top performer. However, how many players fizzle out at the AHL level that are high picks? Rattie hasn't fizzled, but performed. Ups his game a notch along with a few injuries, he gets a shot in the top 9 and never leaves.... I can see it happening. The dude can score. Hopefully, Hitch doesn't ruin him.

 

[bluesman11]

The overwhelming support for Rattie is surprising.

 

[Hooliganx3]

The overwhelming support for Rattie is surprising.

Rattie was a goal scorer in the CHL. In the AHL he had an adjustment period then he started scoring. He's proven that he can adjust his game so far. Hard to vote against him since he keeps scoring goals. It may not translate to the NHL. Rattie has proven more than the others up to this point with his AHL success.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The top 5 can really be in any position for me. The real polls will come when the defensemen start getting picked. There are 6 of them and Binnington that will be 6-12 IMO, then guys like Husso, Walman, Pochiro, and others.

 

[medkit]

Meh, I'm going with Rattie. Barbashev will have his day in the sun.

 

[tfriede2]

I don't understand the surprise over the support for Rattie. Rattie was drafted 32, Barbashev 33. Rattie was ranked 25 by TSN, 17 by NHL Central Scouting, and 28 by ISS. Barbashev was ranked 23 by TSN, 18 by NHL Central Scouting, and 19 by ISS. Pretty darn close rankings. Barbashev has the "new toy syndrome" going for him (or against him, depending on how you look at it), while Rattie has continued to score goals. He adjusted to the league, just like he did in the WHL, and he scored the most goals out of all the rookies. You can't go wrong with either player, but Rattie is more proven and hasn't done anything to make me be down on him. His potential today is the same as when he was drafted 3 years ago, and that is pretty rare itself.

 

[izzy]

Close but I'll go with Barbashev. Can't go wrong with him or Ty though.

 

[bluesman11]

Don't take this analogy as an exact. But if you asked me who would I take given the choice between Toews and Kane, I would take Toews every time.

 

[Multimoodia]

Don't take this analogy as an exact. But if you asked me who would I take given the choice between Toews and Kane, I would take Toews every time.

I can understand this reasoning.



...Especially if you are a cab driver.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

i can understand this reasoning.



...especially if you are a cab driver.

YOU TALKING TO ME?!

(annoying that the site edits the all caps away, even when they are deliberate and have utility). I know it was a Kane reference, just thought it would be funny to see Kane in front of a mirror talking to himself like Dineiro.

 

[Multimoodia]

you talking to me?!

You call that bein' hip? What world're you from?

 

[Colt 55]

you talking to me?!

(annoying that the site edits the all caps away, even when they are deliberate and have utility). I know it was a Kane reference, just thought it would be funny to see Kane in front of a mirror talking to himself like Dineiro.

It shouldn't edit all caps text if you include text that is not caps, as you did here.

 

[Chojin]

These polls suffer from "new toy syndrome" so hard.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't understand the surprise over the support for Rattie. Rattie was drafted 32, Barbashev 33. Rattie was ranked 25 by TSN, 17 by NHL Central Scouting, and 28 by ISS. Barbashev was ranked 23 by TSN, 18 by NHL Central Scouting, and 19 by ISS. Pretty darn close rankings. Barbashev has the "new toy syndrome" going for him (or against him, depending on how you look at it), while Rattie has continued to score goals. He adjusted to the league, just like he did in the WHL, and he scored the most goals out of all the rookies. You can't go wrong with either player, but Rattie is more proven and hasn't done anything to make me be down on him. His potential today is the same as when he was drafted 3 years ago, and that is pretty rare itself.

Comparing draft projections across different draft years isn't valid. It is completely determined by the other players in the draft. The number is meaningless. Let's compare Rattie to other wingers drafted in the early 2nd in 2011 to see where he is in his development. They are all further along in their development than he is.

Saad is the best. He has a season and a half in the NHL already and 47 points last year in the NHL. That 1 less than Rattie in the AHL. He will be a full-time, 50+ point NHLer next year. Jurco played 36 NHL games and will be a full timer next season. He averaged a point per game (32 in 32) in the AHL, crushing Rattie's average. Jaskin from the same farm system and played 18 NHL games to Rattie's 2. The only reason Rattie got any was the ridiculous rash of injuries. Jaskin will be a steady NHL contributor on a stacked roster next year. He had a slightly better point per game average than Rattie, and he did it without the consistency of full time AHL work. Finally there is Brett Ritchie. He didn't get any NHL time and I don't know enough about Dallas' roster to know if he will get NHL time next year. However, he had just as many points as Rattie in 4 less games. So while Rattie's 31 goals were nice, it is arguably the least impressive year of comparable prospects.

That is every winger drafted in the top half of the 2nd in 2011. You could argue everyone is further along in their development. You could also argue that points to a ridiculously deep draft. However, it is doubtful Rattie gets a single NHL game next year either. There is no telling when he will get a shot. Now if we are comparing Rattie to Barbashev, many scouts were saying Barbashev was the closest prospect to being NHL ready outside the top 5 this year. So on one hand we have a guy who is almost ready in his first year out of the draft vs. a guy who still needs another year 3 years after he was drafted.

So Rattie is a one-dimensional player (sniper) who needs more time to develop and may not ever make it. While his one dimension is arguably the most important in hockey, scoring goals, it is much tougher to do at the next level. Barbashev is a great all around player and can contribute anywhere in the line-up. He will probably be NHL ready before or at the same time as Rattie and he is younger. So while I am not surprised by the support for Rattie, I disagree with it at least vis a vis Barbashev.

 

[EastonBlues22]

These polls suffer from "new toy syndrome" so hard.

The derogative use of "shiny toy syndrome" to address young prospects being rated highly when they haven "proven" anything comes from a perspective that puts the onus on new kids to "earn" their way up the prospect rankings. That's a fundamentally different way to approach these rankings than an approach that emphasizes potential, and one that I would argue is more flawed than the approach that it disparages when attempting to properly value the relative worth of prospects.

 

[tfriede2]

Comparing draft projections across different draft years isn't valid. It is completely determined by the other players in the draft. The number is meaningless. Let's compare Rattie to other wingers drafted in the early 2nd in 2011 to see where he is in his development. They are all further along in their development than he is.

Saad is the best. He has a season and a half in the NHL already and 47 points last year in the NHL. That 1 less than Rattie in the AHL. He will be a full-time, 50+ point NHLer next year. Jurco played 36 NHL games and will be a full timer next season. He averaged a point per game (32 in 32) in the AHL, crushing Rattie's average. Jaskin from the same farm system and played 18 NHL games to Rattie's 2. The only reason Rattie got any was the ridiculous rash of injuries. Jaskin will be a steady NHL contributor on a stacked roster next year. He had a slightly better point per game average than Rattie, and he did it without the consistency of full time AHL work. Finally there is Brett Ritchie. He didn't get any NHL time and I don't know enough about Dallas' roster to know if he will get NHL time next year. However, he had just as many points as Rattie in 4 less games. So while Rattie's 31 goals were nice, it is arguably the least impressive year of comparable prospects.

That is every winger drafted in the top half of the 2nd in 2011. You could argue everyone is further along in their development. You could also argue that points to a ridiculously deep draft. However, it is doubtful Rattie gets a single NHL game next year either. There is no telling when he will get a shot. Now if we are comparing Rattie to Barbashev, many scouts were saying Barbashev was the closest prospect to being NHL ready outside the top 5 this year. So on one hand we have a guy who is almost ready in his first year out of the draft vs. a guy who still needs another year 3 years after he was drafted.

So Rattie is a one-dimensional player (sniper) who needs more time to develop and may not ever make it. While his one dimension is arguably the most important in hockey, scoring goals, it is much tougher to do at the next level. Barbashev is a great all around player and can contribute anywhere in the line-up. He will probably be NHL ready before or at the same time as Rattie and he is younger. So while I am not surprised by the support for Rattie, I disagree with it at least vis a vis Barbashev.

Fair enough, but my comparison in draft rankings is to show that both players were considered 1st rounders who fell, not just Barbashev. I am not sure how valuable it is to compare the number of NHL games played between the 2011 wingers for this case. While it is certainly useful, and while a player who has played in several NHL games or who is an NHL mainstay like Saad is indisputably more valuable right now, I am still looking at projection. Rattie will take longer to develop, which we all knew to be the case, but he still projects to be a sniper. Of course, that may not come to fruition, but his stock has not fallen. I think that is the main reason for me picking Rattie. The vast majority of prospects fall off or don't develop. Barbashev has 3 years worth of unanswered questions that only time will answer before he reaches Rattie's age, while those questions are already answered with Rattie, ie, he is still on track. I think Fabbri's explosive skillet sets him apart from both of these players, hence why I picked him second. I just don't think Barbashev's skillset trumps Rattie's development thus far. As others have stated, the top 5 could really be arranged in any order, but what is the fun in not picking a side, haha.