GDT: Spring’s Revenge - WSH @ SEA - 3 AM UTC - December 2

[um]

How so? He did his job by winning the face-off back. Seattle saw the set play and knew they could get a free chance by jumping up on Carlson

Shooting the puck at your teammates stomach and letting your guy fly by you isn’t ideal.

I’d rather Eller lose the draw.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Watched the back of my eyelids instead of the game. Watching that OT sequence was laugh out loud funny. Just an absolute shit show out there.

No clue if there’s a way to find out, but I’d be willing to bet that the Caps have one of, if not the worst, overtime record during Laviolette’s tenure. 3v3 is designed to be a high scoring, fun affair and the coaching staff has always seemed to favor giving more defensive forwards ice time. So frustrating.

 

[kicksavedave]

Interesting stat presented there, when the Caps score 3 or more we're 10-1-1, when scoring 2 or less we're 0-10-1. So we're a fairly good defensive team i gather.

I think this stat is probably pretty similar for the entire league. The question is how many times do we score 3 or more vs 2 or less. I think the answer from doing the maths above is about half the time, which isn't good enough overall.

 

[Langway]

Dating back to last season only Chicago has given up more OT goals. Only Philadelphia has a worse goal differential. Only Philadelphia & NYI have scored fewer goals.

 

[EYEuhFRAYtee]

Glad I turned this off after going up 2-0, I would've been pissed to stay up and watch the shit show unfold.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

This is a bit disingenuous. Burakovsky got beat out by Vrana. He also was healthy scratched regularly including in the playoffs with Colorado so it’s not like he’s a player without his flaws.

But on a more macro level your point is valid. It’s almost like talented guys whose games are made for scoring roles but who get buried in the bottom six and who don’t get PP time all are streaky scorers. Weird how that’s been the same thing for Burakovsky, Vrana, Wilson, Stephenson, and now Mantha. Couldn’t have anything to do with coaching decisions and deployments I suppose.

The issue is it doesn’t seem that we’re learning any lessons from it. We acquire or draft someone with a certain profile, we play them in a role not conducive to their skill set, we moan about their lack of production, they leave and do well elsewhere, we’re disappointed with their replacement and blame the player and hope he gets traded. Rinse and repeat.

Totally this.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

On the bright side, the OT was a comical relief. We needed a laugh after all the turtling in the third. Overall, I don't think the Caps have been bad. They are getting scoring chances and performing better than I expected on this long road schedule and banged up.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Mantha is scoring goals at a higher rate than Ovechkin at 5v5. When a player exclusively plays at 5v5 they are going to go through droughts. Him not playing on the PP is a waste especially given how bad the PP has been for most of the season.

Just because a guy is big doesn’t mean he should be expected to hit. I think a lot of people think he’s a floater just because he doesn’t bang around to questionable ends in the corners.

And yeah it doesn’t help being stapled to Lars Eller.

So do Milano and Sheary, yet no one would mistake them for elite snipers. You're the master of numbers, but I don't think goals per 60 scales linearly.

Who should Mantha displace on the PP in your opinion? Johansson is the best at zone entries, Strome is a better distributor of the puck and Oshie can't be displaced on the first wave. If we're arguing about Sheary getting more PP ice time then him, then we have to look at their production in that spot. I think it's a wash there.

As for him not hitting, I would give him a pass for that if he was contributing, but he is not. How can you win the Stanley Cup with players as soft as Mantha? Even a superstar like Stamkos hits more than he does.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

So do Milano and Sheary, yet no one would mistake them for elite snipers. You're the master of numbers, but I don't think goals per 60 scales linearly.

Who should Mantha displace on the PP in your opinion? Johansson is the best at zone entries, Strome is a better distributor of the puck and Oshie can't be displaced on the first wave. If we're arguing about Sheary getting more PP ice time then him, then we have to look at their production in that spot. I think it's a wash there.

As for him not hitting, I would give him a pass for that if he was contributing, but he is not. How can you win the Stanley Cup with players as soft as Mantha? Even a superstar like Stamkos hits more than he does.

He should be playing in the Kucherov spot. Carlson up top with Ovechkin and Mantha on opposite wings, Oshie in the bumper, Kuznetsov or Strome as the distributor. Mantha has the shot to score which keeps defenses honest. That’s more valuable than Johansson’s zone entries.

 

[YippieKaey]

Mantha is scoring goals at a higher rate than Ovechkin at 5v5. When a player exclusively plays at 5v5 they are going to go through droughts. Him not playing on the PP is a waste especially given how bad the PP has been for most of the season.

Just because a guy is big doesn’t mean he should be expected to hit. I think a lot of people think he’s a floater just because he doesn’t bang around to questionable ends in the corners.

And yeah it doesn’t help being stapled to Lars Eller.

But he's also facing weaker matchups at 5v5. He is and has been what he is right now throughout his career. A 0.5 ppg player who is fairly responsible defensively and is good at perimeter plays. But we have a lot of those types of players.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

But he's also facing weaker matchups at 5v5. He is and has been what he is right now throughout his career. A 0.5 ppg player who is fairly responsible defensively and is good at perimeter plays. But we have a lot of those types of players.

I don’t know who they are, but can we get rid of them?

 

[SherVaughn30]

Watched the back of my eyelids instead of the game. Watching that OT sequence was laugh out loud funny. Just an absolute shit show out there.

No clue if there’s a way to find out, but I’d be willing to bet that the Caps have one of, if not the worst, overtime record during Laviolette’s tenure. 3v3 is designed to be a high scoring, fun affair and the coaching staff has always seemed to favor giving more defensive forwards ice time. So frustrating.

You can tell Lavi doesn't take OT and Shootouts seriously, because if he did he would have put better players to match-up against the opponent and maybe choose players for the shootout that had the hot hand or looks like they could put one past the opponents goalie.

 

[Devil Dancer]

He should be playing in the Kucherov spot. Carlson up top with Ovechkin and Mantha on opposite wings, Oshie in the bumper, Kuznetsov or Strome as the distributor. Mantha has the shot to score which keeps defenses honest. That’s more valuable than Johansson’s zone entries.

I'd be interested to try it, but I don't know that he has the hands or vision to run the PP off the wall the way 19 or, to a lesser extent, 92 can. He definitely doesn't have a big one-timer that's going to scare teams into opening up elsewhere.

 

[SherVaughn30]

He should be playing in the Kucherov spot. Carlson up top with Ovechkin and Mantha on opposite wings, Oshie in the bumper, Kuznetsov or Strome as the distributor. Mantha has the shot to score which keeps defenses honest. That’s more valuable than Johansson’s zone entries.

We have that threat on the PP like the Bolts regularly use, but we don't take advantage of it. In Preseason, both Strome and Mantha scored PP goals from the right-side, but Forsythe refuses to take advantage of PP scoring chances that way.

So do Milano and Sheary, yet no one would mistake them for elite snipers. You're the master of numbers, but I don't think goals per 60 scales linearly.

Who should Mantha displace on the PP in your opinion? Johansson is the best at zone entries, Strome is a better distributor of the puck and Oshie can't be displaced on the first wave. If we're arguing about Sheary getting more PP ice time then him, then we have to look at their production in that spot. I think it's a wash there.

As for him not hitting, I would give him a pass for that if he was contributing, but he is not. How can you win the Stanley Cup with players as soft as Mantha? Even a superstar like Stamkos hits more than he does.

Because Mantha is a complimentary player if used correctly by coaches and not a core player.

 

[SherVaughn30]

I think this stat is probably pretty similar for the entire league. The question is how many times do we score 3 or more vs 2 or less. I think the answer from doing the maths above is about half the time, which isn't good enough overall.

Caps have that horrible stat because Lavi's/McCarthy's system allows too many high danger chances, plus we don't have an Orpik d-man to clear/box out opponents forwards in front of the net.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

He should be playing in the Kucherov spot. Carlson up top with Ovechkin and Mantha on opposite wings, Oshie in the bumper, Kuznetsov or Strome as the distributor. Mantha has the shot to score which keeps defenses honest. That’s more valuable than Johansson’s zone entries.

I don’t know man, can’t score on the PP if you can’t gain the zone. We watched them fail to enter the zone on the PP for 4 months last season.

He has a hard shot for sure, but his accuracy is not what it needs to be to play in that spot.

 

[SherVaughn30]

I don’t get choosing those 3 for OT. I’d just choose speed and speed alone. Give me Jensen and Kuznetsov at least. Funny enough I don’t think I ever see Jensen at 3v3

Milano should be included too. With his skill set, he's suited for 3 vs 3 OT! Dumb coaching...

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

This is a bit disingenuous. Burakovsky got beat out by Vrana. He also was healthy scratched regularly including in the playoffs with Colorado so it’s not like he’s a player without his flaws.

But on a more macro level your point is valid. It’s almost like talented guys whose games are made for scoring roles but who get buried in the bottom six and who don’t get PP time all are streaky scorers. Weird how that’s been the same thing for Burakovsky, Vrana, Wilson, Stephenson, and now Mantha. Couldn’t have anything to do with coaching decisions and deployments I suppose.

The issue is it doesn’t seem that we’re learning any lessons from it. We acquire or draft someone with a certain profile, we play them in a role not conducive to their skill set, we moan about their lack of production, they leave and do well elsewhere, we’re disappointed with their replacement and blame the player and hope he gets traded. Rinse and repeat.

Yes. Yes, and yes. All of this. You speak the truth.

 

[twabby]

So do Milano and Sheary, yet no one would mistake them for elite snipers. You're the master of numbers, but I don't think goals per 60 scales linearly.

Who should Mantha displace on the PP in your opinion? Johansson is the best at zone entries, Strome is a better distributor of the puck and Oshie can't be displaced on the first wave. If we're arguing about Sheary getting more PP ice time then him, then we have to look at their production in that spot. I think it's a wash there.

As for him not hitting, I would give him a pass for that if he was contributing, but he is not. How can you win the Stanley Cup with players as soft as Mantha? Even a superstar like Stamkos hits more than he does.

Sheary and Milano aren’t better 5v5 goal scorers in the long run than Ovechkin. They’ve just had a little more shooting luck this year.

I guess I just find it tiresome to say Mantha isn’t producing, yet given his minutes he’s scoring goals at a perfectly good top 6 rate, and given his most common linemates perhaps that should mean a bit more.

I also find it odd to say they can’t win a Cup with a guy like Mantha when the guy they traded him for (Vrana) was probably even less physical yet they won a Cup with him in 2018.

I think Mantha needs to be utilized as a facilitator of other star players. He drives play to an extent that others on the team do not. With the problems that skilled players like Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Strome, and Oshie have driving possession it’s a bit disappointing to see Mantha instead playing alongside less skilled players like Eller and Johansson. Even while Mantha still drives possession it goes to waste because his linemates just aren’t skilled enough to capitalize.

In terms of the power play I’d settle for Mantha on PP2 in a more permanent role, but he’s not even on PP2 now. I’d put him in over Sheary right now but I think the bigger problem is just that the setup is stale and predictable. I think the entries have been better this year (just a hunch, no stats to back it up) yet they still stink overall (25th in GF/60 at 5v4). They don’t have a good shooting option other than Ovechkin and that allows teams to cheat to Ovie and to the bumper spot. With Mantha they could potentially open up another shooting option from the other side, and it’s not like Mantha is a bad playmaker in his own right.

 

[YippieKaey]

Sheary and Milano aren’t better 5v5 goal scorers in the long run than Ovechkin. They’ve just had a little more shooting luck this year.

I guess I just find it tiresome to say Mantha isn’t producing, yet given his minutes he’s scoring goals at a perfectly good top 6 rate, and given his most common linemates perhaps that should mean a bit more.

I also find it odd to say they can’t win a Cup with a guy like Mantha when the guy they traded him for (Vrana) was probably even less physical yet they won a Cup with him in 2018.

I think Mantha needs to be utilized as a facilitator of other star players. He drives play to an extent that others on the team do not. With the problems that skilled players like Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Strome, and Oshie have driving possession it’s a bit disappointing to see Mantha instead playing alongside less skilled players like Eller and Johansson. Even while Mantha still drives possession it goes to waste because his linemates just aren’t skilled enough to capitalize.

In terms of the power play I’d settle for Mantha on PP2 in a more permanent role, but he’s not even on PP2 now. I’d put him in over Sheary right now but I think the bigger problem is just that the setup is stale and predictable. I think the entries have been better this year (just a hunch, no stats to back it up) yet they still stink overall (25th in GF/60 at 5v4). They don’t have a good shooting option other than Ovechkin and that allows teams to cheat to Ovie and to the bumper spot. With Mantha they could potentially open up another shooting option from the other side, and it’s not like Mantha is a bad playmaker in his own right.

And this team has one star player, who is kind of on the decline. Carlson too if you only look at offense.

The main point is that the Washington Capitals in 2022 are old, oft injured, slow and with the exception of Oshie and maybe Ovi, with a core that seems very content to have won just one cup.

This team ain't going anywhere, so sell the assets that can still be sold and maybe stay fairly competitive for the next two seasons OR build up a prospect base that can play in 3-4 years, OR watch those assets depreciate or leave in FA and suck for ten years or more. I really think those are the only two options.

I don’t know who they are, but can we get rid of them?

Yes please.