(SPOILER WARNING)2018 Ballon d'Or final list has leaked

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by JayKing, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Scandale du Jour

    Scandale du Jour JordanStaal#1Fan

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    I used the conditional as I did not want to be the one making the argument.

    I do not really care about the debate. Messi is a great player and I respect him. End of the discussion for me.

    I am happy Modric won the Ballon d'or because 1) I love him, 2) He is not a goal scorer, so it is nice to see a different kind of player win. In the grand scheme of things, was Messi better? Maybe, maybe not, I do not care.
     
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  2. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    2 goals in his last 11 elimination games, 1 vs. Venezuela and 1 vs. USA.

    0/7 in World Cup elimination games historically.

    Now that's your golden boy, great against mickey mouse teams, absent vs. good teams.
     
  3. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    Maybe relative to his level, but he certainly was not better.
     
  4. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    You really should stop giving opinions about soccer...

    Messi is basically the worst in terms of a great player becoming a no show in World Cups and Klose is one of the top goalscorers there and a World Champion...
     
  5. Vasilevskiy

    Vasilevskiy I've many surnames

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    Did Messi steal your girlfriend?
    The only reason Argentina even played in the WC is Messi.
     
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  6. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    I like watching him play a lot but he is so frustrating to watch disappear in big games.

    But to be honest the worst is his fanboys...You can't be one of the greatest if you can't beat the best...

    You think Wayne Gretzky and Michael Jordan would be consider the best in their sport if they never did anything in the playoffs and Gretzky for Canada?
     
  7. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

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    Nuh uh! Nobody ever deserves a trophy more than Messi. Ever.
     
  8. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    A trophy for the best player when playing weak teams.
     
  9. Duchene2MacKinnon

    Duchene2MacKinnon Dybalascibar

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    What did Gretz do for Canada?

    And messi has proved his worth in the CL.
     
  10. les Habs

    les Habs Registered User

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    Your comment wasn't edgy, it was just poorly put forward and with no context. What's worse is your trying to qualify it by posting something about wages, which is bad enough but then on top of that the piece also is about the current wages and not last season. What's more a side's average wage doesn't mean they have the overall highest wage bill, though in saying that I'm not saying that Barça doesn't as I suspect they do but don't know for sure.

    I'm still curious as to know the overall difference in transfer fees of Madrid's squad from last season and Barça's considering players who were part of the respective side's CL squads. You don't even have to adjust for inflation, just go ahead and post the difference in money spent.

    You should wait for the answer since you're ignorant of much if not all of Messi's career. Here is what Messi has done when it matters most based on matches and other things I can recall:

    -Never lost a CL Final in three appearances.
    -Never played badly in a CL Final in three appearances.
    -Scored in two CL Finals, including a match-winner, and his shot that Buffon spilled rebounded to Suarez in the third resulted in a goal.
    -Will very likely be all time leading CL goalscorer when retires despite not being a striker. Also has the most CL hat-tricks ever.
    -Best ever Clasico player by a ways as he's scored the most Clasico goals ever and has the most Clasico assists ever. Also tied for 1st for most ever Clasico hat-tricks despite not being a striker.
    -Knocked Real Madrid out in the CL Semis, scoring two goals in the decisive first leg away the Bernabeu one of which was an incredible goal and also scored the match-winner, going on to win the CL that season.
    -Knocked out Bayern Munich in the CL Semis, scoring two goals one of which was an incredible goal and also scored the match-winner, going on to win the CL that season.
    -Best ever La Liga player and goalscorer despite not being a striker and whilst La Liga was largely the best league in the World during that period and whilst his team's biggest rival largely had the most expensive squad ever assembled. Top assist provider in the history of La Liga. 2nd for most La Liga hat-tricks despite not being a striker.
    -Very likely the best player in Copa del Rey Finals ever scoring in 6 of 8 Finals, all of which he won, including multiple spectacular goals that no current player would ever score. Should end up in the top 5 Copa del Rey goalscorers ever despite regularly not being selected for early round matches.
    -Has an amazing goalscoring record against his biggest league rivals in Madrid as I already noted and against Atleti. In fact his most goals by opponent in La Liga are Sevilla, Atleti, Madrid and Valencia and against just those sides, arguably the best in La Liga during the period in question, he's scored a combined 135 goals.

    You should really stop posting, period.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  11. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    While I'm on Messi's side I don't think 'despite not being a striker' really is a qualification that is needed for those statements. He's a goal scorer who is also creative; you don't have to be a striker to score a lot of goals. He is certainly the primary goal threat on all the teams he plays on.
     
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  12. Scandale du Jour

    Scandale du Jour JordanStaal#1Fan

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    Canada Cup 87, go watch it. Him and Lemieux were just, WOW!
     
  13. Duchene2MacKinnon

    Duchene2MacKinnon Dybalascibar

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    Dismissing something based on luck that was the point.

    I'm sorry but lool goals per game... Messi was the top scorer and that's not even half of what he does unlike ronaldo.

    I for understand why Modric won and not even mad or upset but this whole idea Messi didn't have an amazing season is fake news. He was brilliant and could've easily won the trophy. He didn't and I'm not arguing he should've

    Not true he's the driving force for the offence. Scoring goals and creating for others equally as important for his role.

    Nice one tournament.
     
  14. Scandale du Jour

    Scandale du Jour JordanStaal#1Fan

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    WJC 1979, multiple Canada Cups. I know this is a soccer thread, but do not trash Gretzky to prove a point about Messi.
     
  15. les Habs

    les Habs Registered User

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    It isn't a qualification because his numbers stand on their own. However when you consider how he's being compared to other players, in terms of strictly numbers which is a complete joke if you actually watch him play with any regularity not to mention the sort of numbers we're talking about here, then it's a very valid point of context that isn't remotely considered in these sorts of discussions. And while you don't have to be a striker to score a lot of goals, tell me someone who comes close to his numbers who isn't a striker? Ronaldo comes to mind, but Ronaldo's role has changed a lot and there are other points of context when comparing them as I've noted multiple times in the past. And being the primary goal threat on the team you play on doesn't necessarily mean you're playing in the position or have the role of being the primary goal threat. He doesn't in any team at the moment and hasn't been in that position for a while (the Villarreal match withstanding, but I'm talking about consistently being in that position) much less much in his career. Yet Messi is the primary goal threat regardless of not playing that role or in that position.
     
  16. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    A - reducing Ronaldo to just goalscoring is absurd. Yes, it results in goals but the amount of space and pressure, the anticipation and movement he makes to actually get those goals is out of this world. If it was that easy, we'd have more people popping in goals like him. We don't and never have (other than Messi). Not to mention you could see how big his impact is now with Juve outside of "just goals", seeing as how he interchanges with Mandzukic and plays wide a lot more than in the last 2-3 years at Madrid.
    I don't think there's much point in talking about Ronaldo with you though, same as with some other football brainiacs here about Messi (and their opinion on him as a loser or whatever).

    B - I never said Messi had a poor season. For the most part, he was fantastic.
    I specifically said his teams (and him) didn't do well in the 2 major (and only) best-on-best competitions last season and it's the reason why he didn't rank higher.

    There is no grand conspiracy or something, it's just how these awards are valued - you pick the best and most influential players from the winning teams.
    It's not a "disgrace" or some rubbish like that just because once in 11 years Messi ranked outside the top-3, and it was the same in voting from players and manager, fans and journalists.
    You can go down the denial street all you want, this is how these awards are voted for in every sport.
     
  17. Il Mediano

    Il Mediano Registered User

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    Is this turning into another Ronaldo vs Messi debate?
     
  18. maclean

    maclean Registered User

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    I won't disparage Gretzky, but if we are using Pouchkine logic here then it's probably important to point out that was a meaningless exhibition tournament :)
     
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  19. Juve

    Juve Registered User

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    I'll never understand these people.
    [​IMG]

    I for one am happy that both Ronaldo and Messi didn't win because it's nice to see someone else win it for a change.
     

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