(SPOILER WARNING)2018 Ballon d'Or final list has leaked

[Scandale du Jour]

Argue? Like what 13-14 goals to a couple in the group stages...

I used the conditional as I did not want to be the one making the argument.

I do not really care about the debate. Messi is a great player and I respect him. End of the discussion for me.

I am happy Modric won the Ballon d'or because 1) I love him, 2) He is not a goal scorer, so it is nice to see a different kind of player win. In the grand scheme of things, was Messi better? Maybe, maybe not, I do not care.

 

[Pouchkine]

2 goals in his last 11 elimination games, 1 vs. Venezuela and 1 vs. USA.

0/7 in World Cup elimination games historically.

Now that's your golden boy, great against mickey mouse teams, absent vs. good teams.

 

[YNWA14]

Of course not, but one could argue he had better world cup performances.

Maybe relative to his level, but he certainly was not better.

 

[Pouchkine]

You really should stop giving opinions about soccer...

Messi is basically the worst in terms of a great player becoming a no show in World Cups and Klose is one of the top goalscorers there and a World Champion...

 

[Vasilevskiy]

You really should stop giving opinions about soccer...

Messi is basically the worst in terms of a great player becoming a no show in World Cups and Klose is one of the top goalscorers there and a World Champion...

Did Messi steal your girlfriend?
The only reason Argentina even played in the WC is Messi.

 

[Pouchkine]

I like watching him play a lot but he is so frustrating to watch disappear in big games.

But to be honest the worst is his fanboys...You can't be one of the greatest if you can't beat the best...

You think Wayne Gretzky and Michael Jordan would be consider the best in their sport if they never did anything in the playoffs and Gretzky for Canada?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Messi is the best player in the world.

There have been players that have been more deserving of the Bd'O over the last decade than Modric who haven't won.

You can make a case that Modric deserved it this year.

Nuh uh! Nobody ever deserves a trophy more than Messi. Ever.

 

[Pouchkine]

A trophy for the best player when playing weak teams.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I like watching him play a lot but he is so frustrating to watch disappear in big games.

But to be honest the worst is his fanboys...You can't be one of the greatest if you can't beat the best...

You think Wayne Gretzky and Michael Jordan would be consider the best in their sport if they never did anything in the playoffs and Gretzky for Canada?

What did Gretz do for Canada?

And messi has proved his worth in the CL.

 

[les Habs]

As for my comment about Barca and Messi being the most expensive team etc., I didn't think I was being edgy or anything of the sort.
My point was they're not Sevilla or some underdog, they're one of the favorites.
Barca is a favorite year after year in the CL, and they'll be the first to tell you they consider bowing out in the quarters an utter failure.
Again, I really didn't think I was being controversial in any way here.
But for what it's worth, they are in fact the highest-paid team in the world: Barcelona tops the 2018 list of the highest-paid sports teams in the world with $13.8 million average annual salary

Your comment wasn't edgy, it was just poorly put forward and with no context. What's worse is your trying to qualify it by posting something about wages, which is bad enough but then on top of that the piece also is about the current wages and not last season. What's more a side's average wage doesn't mean they have the overall highest wage bill, though in saying that I'm not saying that Barça doesn't as I suspect they do but don't know for sure.

I'm still curious as to know the overall difference in transfer fees of Madrid's squad from last season and Barça's considering players who were part of the respective side's CL squads. You don't even have to adjust for inflation, just go ahead and post the difference in money spent.

How many goals your boy Messi has scored in the 2014WorldCup 2015Copa 2016Copa 2018WorldCup elimination games? Please remind us how your special player does when it matters the most? Great players are not just great against small clubs, they show up in the big moments against other good clubs...

I wait for the answer.

You should wait for the answer since you're ignorant of much if not all of Messi's career. Here is what Messi has done when it matters most based on matches and other things I can recall:

-Never lost a CL Final in three appearances.
-Never played badly in a CL Final in three appearances.
-Scored in two CL Finals, including a match-winner, and his shot that Buffon spilled rebounded to Suarez in the third resulted in a goal.
-Will very likely be all time leading CL goalscorer when retires despite not being a striker. Also has the most CL hat-tricks ever.
-Best ever Clasico player by a ways as he's scored the most Clasico goals ever and has the most Clasico assists ever. Also tied for 1st for most ever Clasico hat-tricks despite not being a striker.
-Knocked Real Madrid out in the CL Semis, scoring two goals in the decisive first leg away the Bernabeu one of which was an incredible goal and also scored the match-winner, going on to win the CL that season.
-Knocked out Bayern Munich in the CL Semis, scoring two goals one of which was an incredible goal and also scored the match-winner, going on to win the CL that season.
-Best ever La Liga player and goalscorer despite not being a striker and whilst La Liga was largely the best league in the World during that period and whilst his team's biggest rival largely had the most expensive squad ever assembled. Top assist provider in the history of La Liga. 2nd for most La Liga hat-tricks despite not being a striker.
-Very likely the best player in Copa del Rey Finals ever scoring in 6 of 8 Finals, all of which he won, including multiple spectacular goals that no current player would ever score. Should end up in the top 5 Copa del Rey goalscorers ever despite regularly not being selected for early round matches.
-Has an amazing goalscoring record against his biggest league rivals in Madrid as I already noted and against Atleti. In fact his most goals by opponent in La Liga are Sevilla, Atleti, Madrid and Valencia and against just those sides, arguably the best in La Liga during the period in question, he's scored a combined 135 goals.

You really should stop giving opinions about soccer...

Messi is basically the worst in terms of a great player becoming a no show in World Cups and Klose is one of the top goalscorers there and a World Champion...

You should really stop posting, period.

 

[YNWA14]

While I'm on Messi's side I don't think 'despite not being a striker' really is a qualification that is needed for those statements. He's a goal scorer who is also creative; you don't have to be a striker to score a lot of goals. He is certainly the primary goal threat on all the teams he plays on.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

What did Gretz do for Canada?

And messi has proved his worth in the CL.

Canada Cup 87, go watch it. Him and Lemieux were just, WOW!

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

What's that even mean? Pavard meant to shoot and scored a worldie. Yeah, he's not gonna do it again for 20 years, but he got it right and it went in.
Messi's was a shot that was relatively weak and got deflected to end up being an assist.



I mean, Ronaldo played 9 games less in La Liga (and it was the same in 2017 when Real won the league).
Partly because of suspension and partly because ZZ rotates.
In that sense, context matters. Ronaldo ended up with less total goals than Messi in 2017 too, but played less games and was absolutely out-of-this-world down the stretch both in La Liga and in the CL.



I hate this whole narrative of players "not showing up". It's Messi, most of the time you cannot contain him, but sometimes it happens.
He, and his team, the favorites, the most expensive team in the world, went out to Roma in the quarters.
His WC was rather pedestrian, especially for his standards.
He came nowhere close to winning the 2 biggest competition and the ONLY best-on-best competitions last season.

Yes, he's the best player in the world. And in the history.
No, he didn't have the best season.
Yes, team achievements matter.
IN ANY SPORT ON THIS PLANET.
Players from team who bomb out in the 2nd round don't win the Conn Smythe, and feel free to insert comparison with any other team sport here.

Dismissing something based on luck that was the point.

I'm sorry but lool goals per game... Messi was the top scorer and that's not even half of what he does unlike ronaldo.

I for understand why Modric won and not even mad or upset but this whole idea Messi didn't have an amazing season is fake news. He was brilliant and could've easily won the trophy. He didn't and I'm not arguing he should've

While I'm on Messi's side I don't think 'despite not being a striker' really is a qualification that is needed for those statements. He's a goal scorer who is also creative; you don't have to be a striker to score a lot of goals. He is certainly the primary goal threat on all the teams he plays on.

Not true he's the driving force for the offence. Scoring goals and creating for others equally as important for his role.

Canada Cup 87, go watch it. Him and Lemieux were just, WOW!

Nice one tournament.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Dismissing something based on luck that was the point.

I'm sorry but lool goals per game... Messi was the top scorer and that's not even half of what he does unlike ronaldo.

I for understand why Modric won and not even mad or upset but this whole idea Messi didn't have an amazing season is fake news. He was brilliant and could've easily won the trophy. He didn't and I'm not arguing he should've



Not true he's the driving force for the offence. Scoring goals and creating for others equally as important for his role.



Nice one tournament.

WJC 1979, multiple Canada Cups. I know this is a soccer thread, but do not trash Gretzky to prove a point about Messi.

 

[les Habs]

While I'm on Messi's side I don't think 'despite not being a striker' really is a qualification that is needed for those statements. He's a goal scorer who is also creative; you don't have to be a striker to score a lot of goals. He is certainly the primary goal threat on all the teams he plays on.

It isn't a qualification because his numbers stand on their own. However when you consider how he's being compared to other players, in terms of strictly numbers which is a complete joke if you actually watch him play with any regularity not to mention the sort of numbers we're talking about here, then it's a very valid point of context that isn't remotely considered in these sorts of discussions. And while you don't have to be a striker to score a lot of goals, tell me someone who comes close to his numbers who isn't a striker? Ronaldo comes to mind, but Ronaldo's role has changed a lot and there are other points of context when comparing them as I've noted multiple times in the past. And being the primary goal threat on the team you play on doesn't necessarily mean you're playing in the position or have the role of being the primary goal threat. He doesn't in any team at the moment and hasn't been in that position for a while (the Villarreal match withstanding, but I'm talking about consistently being in that position) much less much in his career. Yet Messi is the primary goal threat regardless of not playing that role or in that position.

 

[Corto]

I'm sorry but lool goals per game... Messi was the top scorer and that's not even half of what he does unlike ronaldo.

I for understand why Modric won and not even mad or upset but this whole idea Messi didn't have an amazing season is fake news. He was brilliant and could've easily won the trophy. He didn't and I'm not arguing he should've

A - reducing Ronaldo to just goalscoring is absurd. Yes, it results in goals but the amount of space and pressure, the anticipation and movement he makes to actually get those goals is out of this world. If it was that easy, we'd have more people popping in goals like him. We don't and never have (other than Messi). Not to mention you could see how big his impact is now with Juve outside of "just goals", seeing as how he interchanges with Mandzukic and plays wide a lot more than in the last 2-3 years at Madrid.
I don't think there's much point in talking about Ronaldo with you though, same as with some other football brainiacs here about Messi (and their opinion on him as a loser or whatever).

B - I never said Messi had a poor season. For the most part, he was fantastic.
I specifically said his teams (and him) didn't do well in the 2 major (and only) best-on-best competitions last season and it's the reason why he didn't rank higher.

There is no grand conspiracy or something, it's just how these awards are valued - you pick the best and most influential players from the winning teams.
It's not a "disgrace" or some rubbish like that just because once in 11 years Messi ranked outside the top-3, and it was the same in voting from players and manager, fans and journalists.
You can go down the denial street all you want, this is how these awards are voted for in every sport.

 

[Il Mediano]

Is this turning into another Ronaldo vs Messi debate?

 

[maclean]

Canada Cup 87, go watch it. Him and Lemieux were just, WOW!

I won't disparage Gretzky, but if we are using Pouchkine logic here then it's probably important to point out that was a meaningless exhibition tournament

 

[Juve]

Is this turning into another Ronaldo vs Messi debate?

I'll never understand these people.

I for one am happy that both Ronaldo and Messi didn't win because it's nice to see someone else win it for a change.